ealingfox Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Exactly, can't believe there's been any debate about it. Think people just want to believe Costa is in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballwipe Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 I don't understand why a lot of football fans can't suspend their bias for decisions like that. More people should stop, pause and think "if that had happened to Vardy/Okazaki/any Leicester player then what would I think?" The answer to that hypothetical would be that they would be screaming for a red, and anything other would have led to accusations of PL bias, referee bias or sheer incompetence. It's like last night's "ball out" with Sterling. Every angle seems to show it out, but I guarantee there are a legion of Man City fans who will proclaim the camera isn't accurate or we "can't be sure" (I admit I haven't looked, just predicting some fans attitudes) yet had it been Lukaku pulling the ball back in the same circumstance they would be exploding with injustice. Football fans; wait check that; sporting fans hypocrisy is hilarious. We're all partially guilty of it, but it's bloody annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPinCarolina Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Exactly, can't believe there's been any debate about it. Think people just want to believe Costa is in the wrong. Are you really surprised? Costa might be one of the most unlikable stars in the League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 No it isn't, it's the 23rd. 9 days later. D'oh, that'll teach me to listen to what someone in the office says rather than check the facts myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koke Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Bobby Martinez moaning about cup loss to Man City being unfair. Usually the sign of a desperate manager on his way to a P45.Maybe he should start organising a defence and stop leaking goals in. It's funny how he conveniently forgot the pen that was denied for Man City in the first leg. Typical managers selective memory.Everton finished 11th last season. They are currently 12th. He is failing with the best Everton side in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 I personally believe that Mertesacker is looking for Koscielny's positon rather than the linesman. He thought that Koscielny could cover so he attempted to take Costa out. Clear red. Someone else said that today, makes more sense to look for Koscielny than the linesman, yes maybe he attempted to take Costa out, but he missed, he failed to take Costa out, who then took himself out. Are we still discussing this? It's a clear red. I hate Costa. I hate Chelsea. But that was stonewall. He might have gone down like he was shot but Mertersacker still dived in like a knob and got noway near the ball. Mertesacker dived in, and it was a foul, but whether by design or luck he failed to make enough contact to take down Costa, so he didn't prevent a goal scoring opportunity. Whether it was his intention or not I don't know, but his actions did not take out Costa and did not prevent him from running forwards with the ball towards goal. Costa did that himself, probably because he didn't think he would score from that far out (he isn't Vardy and running with the ball towards goal at pace is not his strength). Exactly, can't believe there's been any debate about it. Think people just want to believe Costa is in the wrong. Costa is in the wrong he threw himself to the floor to get Mertesacker sent off rather than try and score, I would be pissed off if Vardy did that because I would expect him to back himself to score from there. It is different if it is a penalty you are trying to win, but trying to get a man sent off is pretty poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Are we still discussing this? It's a clear red. I hate Costa. I hate Chelsea. But that was stonewall. He might have gone down like he was shot but Mertersacker still dived in like a knob and got noway near the ball. Got to disagree, not even a foul imo. Clattenburg bought that like a mug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 I don't understand why a lot of football fans can't suspend their bias for decisions like that. More people should stop, pause and think "if that had happened to Vardy/Okazaki/any Leicester player then what would I think?" The answer to that hypothetical would be that they would be screaming for a red, and anything other would have led to accusations of PL bias, referee bias or sheer incompetence. It's like last night's "ball out" with Sterling. Every angle seems to show it out, but I guarantee there are a legion of Man City fans who will proclaim the camera isn't accurate or we "can't be sure" (I admit I haven't looked, just predicting some fans attitudes) yet had it been Lukaku pulling the ball back in the same circumstance they would be exploding with injustice. Football fans; wait check that; sporting fans hypocrisy is hilarious. We're all partially guilty of it, but it's bloody annoying I disagree, as I said in my last post if it had been Vardy going down unnecessarily under minimal contact instead of looking to score I would have been pissed off with him. There is no guarantee you'll get the red, especially if you throw yourself to the floor like that, the ref's interpretation of goal scoring opportunity is very subjective. We suck at set-pieces so there would be no benefit from the free kick. If the opposition goes down to 10 men it rarely benefits us, see Bournemouth game, where they just go all out defensive and starve us of any space behind the defence to get Vardy in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 I disagree, as I said in my last post if it had been Vardy going down unnecessarily under minimal contact instead of looking to score I would have been pissed off with him. There is no guarantee you'll get the red, especially if you throw yourself to the floor like that, the ref's interpretation of goal scoring opportunity is very subjective. We suck at set-pieces so there would be no benefit from the free kick. If the opposition goes down to 10 men it rarely benefits us, see Bournemouth game, where they just go all out defensive and starve us of any space behind the defence to get Vardy in. Tell you what. Let's you and I do an experiment outside the club shop before the next game. You sprint full tilt as quickly as you can after a ball kicked by a friend of your choosing and I'll clip your feet with varying degrees of light touches and throw myself at your feet. We'll see how well you stay upright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Maybe he should start organising a defence and stop leaking goals in. It's funny how he conveniently forgot the pen that was denied for Man City in the first leg. Typical managers selective memory. Everton finished 11th last season. They are currently 12th. He is failing with the best Everton side in years. Yeah, I agree. Also on the topic of conceding goals, I read yesterday that Martinez's teams concede 60 goals on average a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katieakita Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 De Bruyne is the first player I've seen really injure themselves diving Beg to differ thought that mardy Hazard damaged himself at our place landing awkwardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xen Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 I don't understand why a lot of football fans can't suspend their bias for decisions like that. More people should stop, pause and think "if that had happened to Vardy/Okazaki/any Leicester player then what would I think?" The answer to that hypothetical would be that they would be screaming for a red, and anything other would have led to accusations of PL bias, referee bias or sheer incompetence. You seem to be saying it was definitely a red and no one can argue otherwise purely because we would probably want a red. By the exact same token, if it was Morgan/Huth there then we'd all be shouting 'dive' and incredulous if our player got sent off. Two completely contrasting responses to the same situation, so you can't just pick the one that suits your argument and disregard the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Tell you what. Let's you and I do an experiment outside the club shop before the next game. You sprint full tilt as quickly as you can after a ball kicked by a friend of your choosing and I'll clip your feet with varying degrees of light touches and throw myself at your feet. We'll see how well you stay upright. As much as that sounds like fun, you are missing the point, I know that minimal contact whilst running at speed can take you down. Are you saying Costa couldn't stay on his feet? Are you saying that he didn't choose to through himself to the floor to get Mertesacker sent off? If there is any question over Costa being unable to stay on his feet then it is a straight red no argument. My whole point and reason for bringing this up is that he could have very easily stayed on his feet, he fully plants his right foot and then goes over on it, Mertesacker doesn't touch him, he doesn't change his stride pattern, he is all set to bring his left foot round and down in a fluid running motion and then goes flop. If you disagree then there we are talking about 2 different things, my point is Mertesacker didn't cause him to fall over so he didn't prevent a goal scoring opportunity, therefore no red (but still a foul, but I would expect the ref to wave play on and then book him if Costa doesn't dive). If you think he did cause Costa to fall over then it is a red no question. I don't think there was anywhere near enough contact for Costa to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 As much as that sounds like fun, you are missing the point, I know that minimal contact whilst running at speed can take you down. Are you saying Costa couldn't stay on his feet? Are you saying that he didn't choose to through himself to the floor to get Mertesacker sent off? If there is any question over Costa being unable to stay on his feet then it is a straight red no argument. My whole point and reason for bringing this up is that he could have very easily stayed on his feet, he fully plants his right foot and then goes over on it, Mertesacker doesn't touch him, he doesn't change his stride pattern, he is all set to bring his left foot round and down in a fluid running motion and then goes flop. If you disagree then there we are talking about 2 different things, my point is Mertesacker didn't cause him to fall over so he didn't prevent a goal scoring opportunity, therefore no red (but still a foul, but I would expect the ref to wave play on and then book him if Costa doesn't dive). If you think he did cause Costa to fall over then it is a red no question. I don't think there was anywhere near enough contact for Costa to go down. Turn it the other way around, forget Costa's actions for a moment. Did Mertesacker make a challenge for the ball - yes Did he make contact with the ball - no Could his challenge be considered as impeding the progress of a player - yes (his line cuts across the path the players travels. If the challenge is not made, the player would have acted differently) By impeding the player, has Mertesacker committed serious foul play - yes Yes Costa's actions look dubious, but given Mertesacker's experience he knew what he was doing and just happened to be so slow / late, he couldn't even catch Costa's leg ☺️ He had the choice to stay on his feet - he choose to make a challenge, wasn't successful and to some degree impeded the opposition player. That makes it a foul and the additional circumstances result in the red card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Turn it the other way around, forget Costa's actions for a moment. Did Mertesacker make a challenge for the ball - yes Did he make contact with the ball - no Could his challenge be considered as impeding the progress of a player - yes (his line cuts across the path the players travels. If the challenge is not made, the player would have acted differently) By impeding the player, has Mertesacker committed serious foul play - yes Yes Costa's actions look dubious, but given Mertesacker's experience he knew what he was doing and just happened to be so slow / late, he couldn't even catch Costa's leg ☺️ He had the choice to stay on his feet - he choose to make a challenge, wasn't successful and to some degree impeded the opposition player. That makes it a foul and the additional circumstances result in the red card. This all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Such a shame that Arsenal drew Barca, they've only got 2 CL games left when it could easily have been 4. Well... Arsenal are the sort of team that might end up winning that tie, yet mix it up with home defeats to Swansea and Watford! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Turn it the other way around, forget Costa's actions for a moment. Did Mertesacker make a challenge for the ball - yes Did he make contact with the ball - no Could his challenge be considered as impeding the progress of a player - yes (his line cuts across the path the players travels. If the challenge is not made, the player would have acted differently) By impeding the player, has Mertesacker committed serious foul play - yes Yes Costa's actions look dubious, but given Mertesacker's experience he knew what he was doing and just happened to be so slow / late, he couldn't even catch Costa's leg ☺️ He had the choice to stay on his feet - he choose to make a challenge, wasn't successful and to some degree impeded the opposition player. That makes it a foul and the additional circumstances result in the red card. I'm not saying it isn't a foul, I'm saying it isn't a red card for preventing a goal scoring opportunity. The only person that prevented a goal scoring opportunity was Costa, he could very easily have carried on unimpeded and chose not to take the opportunity and dived, if he had stayed on his feet and was able to run on goal without impediment it would have been advantage Chelsea and maybe a booking for Mertesacker, depending on the ref. Costa choosing to go down is the difference here, and it shouldn't be down to the attacker's choice as to whether someone gets sent off or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Well... Arsenal are the sort of team that might end up winning that tie, yet mix it up with home defeats to Swansea and Watford! I like Barcelona a fair bit but I'd take that all day long. We live in hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 I'm not saying it isn't a foul, I'm saying it isn't a red card for preventing a goal scoring opportunity. The only person that prevented a goal scoring opportunity was Costa, he could very easily have carried on unimpeded and chose not to take the opportunity and dived, if he had stayed on his feet and was able to run on goal without impediment it would have been advantage Chelsea and maybe a booking for Mertesacker, depending on the ref. Costa choosing to go down is the difference here, and it shouldn't be down to the attacker's choice as to whether someone gets sent off or not. Sorry Cap, I agree with a lot of what you've got to say but you've completely lost the plot on this one.If it's a foul it's a red card. Nobody would even still be talking about it if it wasn't for the fact Costa is a tool. Mertesacker made a last ditch lunge, missed, got sent off. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudFox Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 Tell you what. Let's you and I do an experiment outside the club shop before the next game. You sprint full tilt as quickly as you can after a ball kicked by a friend of your choosing and I'll clip your feet with varying degrees of light touches and throw myself at your feet. We'll see how well you stay upright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 I'm not saying it isn't a foul, I'm saying it isn't a red card for preventing a goal scoring opportunity. The only person that prevented a goal scoring opportunity was Costa, he could very easily have carried on unimpeded and chose not to take the opportunity and dived, if he had stayed on his feet and was able to run on goal without impediment it would have been advantage Chelsea and maybe a booking for Mertesacker, depending on the ref. Costa choosing to go down is the difference here, and it shouldn't be down to the attacker's choice as to whether someone gets sent off or not. But you can't have it both ways... If it is a foul as you concede it is, the referee then has to judge the punishment based on the situation the foul has been committed in - and so it's a red card. Yes Costa has used gamesmanship to present that situation, but the primary person responsible for getting Mertesacker sent off is himself when he decided to make that challenge (with the wrong leg too, should have gone with his right, might have got the ball that way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 It's like last night's "ball out" with Sterling. Every angle seems to show it out, but I guarantee there are a legion of Man City fans who will proclaim the camera isn't accurate or we "can't be sure" (I admit I haven't looked, just predicting some fans attitudes) yet had it been Lukaku pulling the ball back in the same circumstance they would be exploding with injustice. Football fans; wait check that; sporting fans hypocrisy is hilarious. We're all partially guilty of it, but it's bloody annoying What Man City do to celebrate a win is of no concern to me... But something interesting with this "non-decision" is that when I spot the referees and linesmans positions, they're not necessarily incorrect, but they make giving a decision very difficult. The linesman is on the opposite side and would have been moving making finer judgement from his position very difficult. The referee was close to the play, just a little behind the incident but square on and his vision is possibly impeded by other players movement - so it's an understandable non decision. Everton's General defending of the situation however - awful! Stones too far away / flat footed from Sterling, no one to double up, no understanding of where City's players are in the box. They could have done a lot more to stop that situation regardless of the officials understandable misgivings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 But you can't have it both ways... If it is a foul as you concede it is, the referee then has to judge the punishment based on the situation the foul has been committed in - and so it's a red card. Yes Costa has used gamesmanship to present that situation, but the primary person responsible for getting Mertesacker sent off is himself when he decided to make that challenge (with the wrong leg too, should have gone with his right, might have got the ball that way). But if Costa stays on his feet the ref plays advantage so he can have a shot at goal, and then books Mertesacker. (that is the law from FIFA) The ruling seems to be Costa can choose whether to get a player sent off or have a shot at goal. In this case it was a clear lunge but what about in the case of an arm across the player or a bit of contact on the leg. Basically you take away the 2 players involved, and look at a hypothetical situation. It is all agreed that a foul can be committed without there being contact and we all agree that Mertesacker lunging in at the feet of a player is a foul. So a player is running through on goal and the last defender slides in, the player steps over the tackle without breaking his stride, no contact whatsoever and is about to carry on, but then just stops and looks at the ref. Is that a red? You can argue the defender tried to stop a clear opportunity on goal, but he failed. The red card for it is in part punishment, but also in part compensation to the attacking team for being denied a clear opportunity. If you deny yourself that opportunity why should you get the compensation of a man sent off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfpipe Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 But if Costa stays on his feet the ref plays advantage so he can have a shot at goal, and then books Mertesacker. (that is the law from FIFA) The ruling seems to be Costa can choose whether to get a player sent off or have a shot at goal. In this case it was a clear lunge but what about in the case of an arm across the player or a bit of contact on the leg. Basically you take away the 2 players involved, and look at a hypothetical situation. It is all agreed that a foul can be committed without there being contact and we all agree that Mertesacker lunging in at the feet of a player is a foul. So a player is running through on goal and the last defender slides in, the player steps over the tackle without breaking his stride, no contact whatsoever and is about to carry on, but then just stops and looks at the ref. Is that a red? You can argue the defender tried to stop a clear opportunity on goal, but he failed. The red card for it is in part punishment, but also in part compensation to the attacking team for being denied a clear opportunity. If you deny yourself that opportunity why should you get the compensation of a man sent off? I was under the impression that if a foul is adjudged to be deserving of a straight red, then the play is stopped, a free kick (or penalty) given, and the red card shown - regardless of whether or not the player is in a position to use the advantage? So if the referee sees the challenge as a foul, and in the circumstances it deserves a straight red, then it doesn't matter if Costa stays on his feet or not - the same outcome should still occur. Of course, the likelihood of the free kick even being given if Costa stayed on his feet is a whole lot lower, considering that players go down so easily these days, so if they stay on their feet the referee simply believes that there has been no contact. But that's an entirely different conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 January 2016 Share Posted 28 January 2016 But if Costa stays on his feet the ref plays advantage so he can have a shot at goal, and then books Mertesacker. (that is the law from FIFA) The ruling seems to be Costa can choose whether to get a player sent off or have a shot at goal. In this case it was a clear lunge but what about in the case of an arm across the player or a bit of contact on the leg. Basically you take away the 2 players involved, and look at a hypothetical situation. It is all agreed that a foul can be committed without there being contact and we all agree that Mertesacker lunging in at the feet of a player is a foul. Costa can only 'choose' because of the situation presented to him by Mertesaker. If Mertesaker had not made his challenge, Costa would have proceeded as normal. Your argument is suggesting Mertersaker is a completely innocent party and this is all down to Costa's actions, but let's face it Mertesaker's a seriously experienced international and should have known better. I'm by no means asking you to like what Costa has done, but I think you need to concede defeat on this one - especially as this won't be the last time a defender will dangle a leg and essentially give a striker the choice of whether he gets sent off or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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