The Car thread

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

The infrastructure is improving all the time and I think this is overdone a bit anyway as a lot of the infrastructure is in place already in that a significant proportion of the populace has the infrastructure in place already - i.e. their own homes. The range of them is such now that it's only people doing really high mileages on a regular basis that are going to find an EV a ball-ache. It looks like I'm going to do about 12,000 miles this year - more than usual actually, and the adjustment/inconvenience to me of having an EV is pretty much zero.

 

You're dismissing rather too lightly the inconvenience to people who don't have a driveway and can't charge at home.  That's about a third of the population.

 

The technology will probably improve to give faster charging, and then we won't need any more charging points than we have petrol pumps.  That's when EVs will be accessible for all (and people with the "older" technology will find the value of their cars plummets!)

[Grebfromgrebland]

The ban should stay as it is. It only relates to the sale of new cars and there'll be millions of ICE cars still on the road for years to come. 

 

We've got years to improve the infrastructure we just need to get on with it instead of being in the pocket of oil companies.

 

ICE already look primative to me and the next generation.

 

It's over, time to get on with it like a mature country and try and get some energy, food and water security back all areas where the government had actually sought to weaken us.

 

 

[The Bear]

It'll be at least another 30 years before ICE cars disappear off the roads completely. I'm confident there'll be solutions to the current problems by then. Better battery tech, more infrastructure etc. 

[FoyleFox]

Attempted to switch to Octopus Intelligent tariff today. Followed all of the instructions on the app. Nope. Error!  Despite the car being on the approved list, it's seemingly not connecting. Not a great start. 

[Kopic]

Finally got rid of my shit heap last week. Was going to cost a fortune to get through an mot. Got an a class, lovely motor.

[tom27111]

21 hours ago, Kopic said:

Finally got rid of my shit heap last week. Was going to cost a fortune to get through an mot. Got an a class, lovely motor.

 

Does she know you called her that? 

 

[PAULCFC]

Mrs Left her job and got rid of the company car (Seat Ibiza),so she has my Altea fr sport now.......Been out and bought  VW caddy and can't fault it...booked in for the cambelt/waterpump and full service......Marriage!
 

[tom27111]

2 minutes ago, PAULCFC said:

Mrs Left her job and got rid of the company car (Seat Ibiza),so she has my Altea fr sport now.......Been out and bought  VW caddy and can't fault it...booked in for the cambelt/waterpump and full service......Marriage!
 

 

Love a VW Caddy!

 

I've got a 21 plate on my drive right now that I'm delivering on Monday morning, but I'd love an old school pick up.

[PAULCFC]

13 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

 

Love a VW Caddy!

 

I've got a 21 plate on my drive right now that I'm delivering on Monday morning, but I'd love an old school pick up.

The Caddy is great,built on a Golf Chasis i think?Picked it up second hand and going to get the waterpump/timing belt etc sorted out and should last me a few years!

[tom27111]

3 minutes ago, PAULCFC said:

The Caddy is great,built on a Golf Chasis i think?Picked it up second hand and going to get the waterpump/timing belt etc sorted out and should last me a few years!

 

How old is it? Is it a van or pickup?

 

Genuinely, just hang on to it if you can. Modern classic and could possibly be worth a bit in years to come.

 

It's happened with original Caddy's and old models of Golf's.

[Tommy G]

23 hours ago, Kopic said:

Finally got rid of my shit heap last week. Was going to cost a fortune to get through a mot. Got an a class, lovely motor.

So your wife is driving that what have you got?

[PAULCFC]

2 hours ago, tom27111 said:

 

How old is it? Is it a van or pickup?

 

Genuinely, just hang on to it if you can. Modern classic and could possibly be worth a bit in years to come.

 

It's happened with original Caddy's and old models of Golf's.

It's a 2016 Van 1.6 TDI, Drives great!Just want to make sure everything is right on it! Got a T6 camper as well,same year....so im a bit of a VW nerd!

[Daggers]

[Foxin_Mad]

On 21/09/2023 at 07:52, Bellend Sebastian said:

To be honest I think if they stopped manufacturing them today we'd cope alright.

 

The infrastructure is improving all the time and I think this is overdone a bit anyway as a lot of the infrastructure is in place already in that a significant proportion of the populace has the infrastructure in place already - i.e. their own homes. The range of them is such now that it's only people doing really high mileages on a regular basis that are going to find an EV a ball-ache. It looks like I'm going to do about 12,000 miles this year - more than usual actually, and the adjustment/inconvenience to me of having an EV is pretty much zero.

 

It's very difficult to ignore the political aspect of this though as like seemingly everything these days it's being turned into a baffling culture war. Nearly every day I get a Google alert about a right wing newspaper story with a headline like "I bought an EV and it's the worst thing I've ever done"  or "Desperate dealerships' forecourts clogged with unsold EVs".

 

We've seen on here that a lot of folk just don't understand things like ULEZs, and you only have to portray something as being forced on them and suddenly it's like we're all sixteen years old and EVs are Russell Brand.

 

EVs are still discouragingly expensive for most people, but so are most brand new cars so again this seems to be a bit overplayed. It's not like all the relatively clean ICE vehicles made to date and continuing to be made up until 2030 are suddenly going to be pushed into the sea is it?

 

Personally I think the thing that will change everything is if what Toyota claim is true and that they're very close to perfecting solid state batteries AND that technology isn't eye wateringly expensive then everyone will abandon ICE anyway, as it will mean that EVs will have greater ranges and charge in a fraction of the time they do now.

 

As for Ferrari, the first thing I think of when I see a supercar now is Andrew Taint

 

 

 

 

I honestly cant agree.

 

I still think we are a long way off Electric cars being a suitable replacement. To me it seems like pushing Diesel as 'green'all over again, I feel there wil be better greener technologies coming on stream over the next few years, It feels to me we are throwing our eggs in a fundamentally bad and not particularly green technology. Hydrogen will come a long way.

 

Obviously it doesnt really work with our consumer driven nature, but having a new car period is worse than running a 10 year old petrol car. 

 

To me electric cars dont work at present, ive tried, I fail to see how they can ever work for me and probably millions of others. The beauty of a petrol car is I can fill it up and drive it till it runs out, I can then fill it up in no more than 10 minutes generally and carry on with my journey. First of all for me the range is not enough, probably a maximum of 300 miles on a good day (I can drive 600 miles in a day often, so looking a 3 charges possibly). Even with fast chargers you are looking at 30/45 minutes charging time in a hideous service station with some chain coffee and bland luke warm food, often you have to register with an app, many of the chargers have issues/faults, things that are just generally irritating...why cant I just plug in take the electricity and pay on card! why do I need a bloody app? Then at home if you live in a flat or terrace house in a city, its pretty much impossible to charge at present or any time soon. 

 

Further to this if every single car suddenly became electric over a short period, could the grid cope at 6pm each evening when everyone plugs in their car and kettle, I doubt it. There is a bigger infastructure problem, due to failed energy policy from successive governments for nearly 40 years.

 

Finally can you imagine the state of services on bank holidays etc? everyone waiting or fighting for a charger! it'd be a bloody nightmare! It was seen to an extent last Christmas with only a small proportion of electric cars on the road, how do you build or reconfigure a service station to charge hundreds of cars at once for 1hr instead of cars popping through a petrol station for 10 minutes max? Its a huge project, to me fundamentally (current) batteries dont have a place in cars designed to travel long distances, its just wont work, its logistically impossible, its needs to be something quickly refillable or excahanged else the whole reason for a cars existance is eroded in my opinion. 

 

I get electric cars work for some people, thats fine. They dont work for me, I fail to see that that is going to have improved much by 2030. Setting an arbitary date is going to push up inflation, new and used car petrol prices during that period. Its stupid to set a specific date. Phase out, offer incentives, whatever but banning to move to an imperfect and environmentally and ethically questionable alternative...no. 

 

 

[bmt]

4 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I honestly cant agree.

 

I still think we are a long way off Electric cars being a suitable replacement. To me it seems like pushing Diesel as 'green'all over again, I feel there wil be better greener technologies coming on stream over the next few years, It feels to me we are throwing our eggs in a fundamentally bad and not particularly green technology. Hydrogen will come a long way.

 

Obviously it doesnt really work with our consumer driven nature, but having a new car period is worse than running a 10 year old petrol car. 

 

To me electric cars dont work at present, ive tried, I fail to see how they can ever work for me and probably millions of others. The beauty of a petrol car is I can fill it up and drive it till it runs out, I can then fill it up in no more than 10 minutes generally and carry on with my journey. First of all for me the range is not enough, probably a maximum of 300 miles on a good day (I can drive 600 miles in a day often, so looking a 3 charges possibly). Even with fast chargers you are looking at 30/45 minutes charging time in a hideous service station with some chain coffee and bland luke warm food, often you have to register with an app, many of the chargers have issues/faults, things that are just generally irritating...why cant I just plug in take the electricity and pay on card! why do I need a bloody app? Then at home if you live in a flat or terrace house in a city, its pretty much impossible to charge at present or any time soon. 

 

Further to this if every single car suddenly became electric over a short period, could the grid cope at 6pm each evening when everyone plugs in their car and kettle, I doubt it. There is a bigger infastructure problem, due to failed energy policy from successive governments for nearly 40 years.

 

Finally can you imagine the state of services on bank holidays etc? everyone waiting or fighting for a charger! it'd be a bloody nightmare! It was seen to an extent last Christmas with only a small proportion of electric cars on the road, how do you build or reconfigure a service station to charge hundreds of cars at once for 1hr instead of cars popping through a petrol station for 10 minutes max? Its a huge project, to me fundamentally (current) batteries dont have a place in cars designed to travel long distances, its just wont work, its logistically impossible, its needs to be something quickly refillable or excahanged else the whole reason for a cars existance is eroded in my opinion. 

 

I get electric cars work for some people, thats fine. They dont work for me, I fail to see that that is going to have improved much by 2030. Setting an arbitary date is going to push up inflation, new and used car petrol prices during that period. Its stupid to set a specific date. Phase out, offer incentives, whatever but banning to move to an imperfect and environmentally and ethically questionable alternative...no. 

 

 

It will have to. Hydrogen is currently not very green and is not a fuel. It's extremely inefficient for energy.

[Tommy G]

11 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I honestly cant agree.

 

I still think we are a long way off Electric cars being a suitable replacement. To me it seems like pushing Diesel as 'green'all over again, I feel there wil be better greener technologies coming on stream over the next few years, It feels to me we are throwing our eggs in a fundamentally bad and not particularly green technology. Hydrogen will come a long way.

 

Obviously it doesnt really work with our consumer driven nature, but having a new car period is worse than running a 10 year old petrol car. 

 

To me electric cars dont work at present, ive tried, I fail to see how they can ever work for me and probably millions of others. The beauty of a petrol car is I can fill it up and drive it till it runs out, I can then fill it up in no more than 10 minutes generally and carry on with my journey. First of all for me the range is not enough, probably a maximum of 300 miles on a good day (I can drive 600 miles in a day often, so looking a 3 charges possibly). Even with fast chargers you are looking at 30/45 minutes charging time in a hideous service station with some chain coffee and bland luke warm food, often you have to register with an app, many of the chargers have issues/faults, things that are just generally irritating...why cant I just plug in take the electricity and pay on card! why do I need a bloody app? Then at home if you live in a flat or terrace house in a city, its pretty much impossible to charge at present or any time soon. 

 

Further to this if every single car suddenly became electric over a short period, could the grid cope at 6pm each evening when everyone plugs in their car and kettle, I doubt it. There is a bigger infastructure problem, due to failed energy policy from successive governments for nearly 40 years.

 

Finally can you imagine the state of services on bank holidays etc? everyone waiting or fighting for a charger! it'd be a bloody nightmare! It was seen to an extent last Christmas with only a small proportion of electric cars on the road, how do you build or reconfigure a service station to charge hundreds of cars at once for 1hr instead of cars popping through a petrol station for 10 minutes max? Its a huge project, to me fundamentally (current) batteries dont have a place in cars designed to travel long distances, its just wont work, its logistically impossible, its needs to be something quickly refillable or excahanged else the whole reason for a cars existance is eroded in my opinion. 

 

I get electric cars work for some people, thats fine. They dont work for me, I fail to see that that is going to have improved much by 2030. Setting an arbitary date is going to push up inflation, new and used car petrol prices during that period. Its stupid to set a specific date. Phase out, offer incentives, whatever but banning to move to an imperfect and environmentally and ethically questionable alternative...no. 

 

 

They won't work for you but 99% of the population don't do 600 miles per day, so for the vast majority they can work - I can see your personal gripes but they are a great solution for quite a chunk of the population, and affordable especially through a company car scheme with the generous BIK rate. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

9 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I honestly cant agree.

 

I still think we are a long way off Electric cars being a suitable replacement. To me it seems like pushing Diesel as 'green'all over again, I feel there wil be better greener technologies coming on stream over the next few years, It feels to me we are throwing our eggs in a fundamentally bad and not particularly green technology. Hydrogen will come a long way.

 

Obviously it doesnt really work with our consumer driven nature, but having a new car period is worse than running a 10 year old petrol car. 

 

To me electric cars dont work at present, ive tried, I fail to see how they can ever work for me and probably millions of others. The beauty of a petrol car is I can fill it up and drive it till it runs out, I can then fill it up in no more than 10 minutes generally and carry on with my journey. First of all for me the range is not enough, probably a maximum of 300 miles on a good day (I can drive 600 miles in a day often, so looking a 3 charges possibly). Even with fast chargers you are looking at 30/45 minutes charging time in a hideous service station with some chain coffee and bland luke warm food, often you have to register with an app, many of the chargers have issues/faults, things that are just generally irritating...why cant I just plug in take the electricity and pay on card! why do I need a bloody app? Then at home if you live in a flat or terrace house in a city, its pretty much impossible to charge at present or any time soon. 

 

Further to this if every single car suddenly became electric over a short period, could the grid cope at 6pm each evening when everyone plugs in their car and kettle, I doubt it. There is a bigger infastructure problem, due to failed energy policy from successive governments for nearly 40 years.

 

Finally can you imagine the state of services on bank holidays etc? everyone waiting or fighting for a charger! it'd be a bloody nightmare! It was seen to an extent last Christmas with only a small proportion of electric cars on the road, how do you build or reconfigure a service station to charge hundreds of cars at once for 1hr instead of cars popping through a petrol station for 10 minutes max? Its a huge project, to me fundamentally (current) batteries dont have a place in cars designed to travel long distances, its just wont work, its logistically impossible, its needs to be something quickly refillable or excahanged else the whole reason for a cars existance is eroded in my opinion. 

 

I get electric cars work for some people, thats fine. They dont work for me, I fail to see that that is going to have improved much by 2030. Setting an arbitary date is going to push up inflation, new and used car petrol prices during that period. Its stupid to set a specific date. Phase out, offer incentives, whatever but banning to move to an imperfect and environmentally and ethically questionable alternative...no. 

 

 

You often drive 600 miles in a day? That's like Penzance to Glasgow or something and would take longer than most people's working day - I hope you're taking place of breaks. Yes, you'd probably be better off with a diesel, but how many people are doing that sort of driving? The average car journey is apparently 8.4 miles.

 

The point I was making was that if they stopped making diesel and petrol cars now, everyone would cope. There are hundreds of thousands of the things knocking about for those that really want them and will be for years to come.

 

Car manufacturers are pouring billions into developing EV and hydrogen technology but (according to the boss of Renault, at least) development of ICE has pretty much stopped. 

 

Toyota are (perhaps overconfidently) claiming that they will be selling solid state battery EVs by 2026-27 that will have a range of 600-900 miles and do a full charge in around ten minutes. By the time 2030 (or 2035) comes around petrol and diesel is going to seem so old hat nobody will want them anyway. Diesel's pretty much disappeared from new car sales already

 

 

 

 

[Foxin_Mad]

9 hours ago, bmt said:

It will have to. Hydrogen is currently not very green and is not a fuel. It's extremely inefficient for energy.

There are new developments all the time in this area. Frankly a new electric car isn't particularly green. The battery is made of rare earth minerals, most if the interior is plastic. You are looking at the best part of 50k before it's as green as it petrol equivalent and even further before its as green as a 5 year old petrol equivalent. Basically having new cars full stop is not green, but obviously noone wants to admit that! 

Edited 11 October 2023 by Foxin_Mad

[The Bear]

4 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

You often drive 600 miles in a day? That's like Penzance to Glasgow or something and would take longer than most people's working day - I hope you're taking place of breaks. Yes, you'd probably be better off with a diesel, but how many people are doing that sort of driving? The average car journey is apparently 8.4 miles.

 

The point I was making was that if they stopped making diesel and petrol cars now, everyone would cope. There are hundreds of thousands of the things knocking about for those that really want them and will be for years to come.

 

Car manufacturers are pouring billions into developing EV and hydrogen technology but (according to the boss of Renault, at least) development of ICE has pretty much stopped. 

 

Toyota are (perhaps overconfidently) claiming that they will be selling solid state battery EVs by 2026-27 that will have a range of 600-900 miles and do a full charge in around ten minutes. By the time 2030 (or 2035) comes around petrol and diesel is going to seem so old hat nobody will want them anyway. Diesel's pretty much disappeared from new car sales already

 

 

 

 

Agreed. The technology and infrastructure will move quickly with demand. Necessity is the mother of invention and all that. 

[Foxin_Mad]

5 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

You often drive 600 miles in a day? That's like Penzance to Glasgow or something and would take longer than most people's working day - I hope you're taking place of breaks. Yes, you'd probably be better off with a diesel, but how many people are doing that sort of driving? The average car journey is apparently 8.4 miles.

 

The point I was making was that if they stopped making diesel and petrol cars now, everyone would cope. There are hundreds of thousands of the things knocking about for those that really want them and will be for years to come.

 

Car manufacturers are pouring billions into developing EV and hydrogen technology but (according to the boss of Renault, at least) development of ICE has pretty much stopped. 

 

Toyota are (perhaps overconfidently) claiming that they will be selling solid state battery EVs by 2026-27 that will have a range of 600-900 miles and do a full charge in around ten minutes. By the time 2030 (or 2035) comes around petrol and diesel is going to seem so old hat nobody will want them anyway. Diesel's pretty much disappeared from new car sales already

 

 

 

 

It's actually surprisingly easy to drive that far in a modern car at motorway speeds. I will frequently travel from the Midlands south and back up the M6 in a day from 6am, accross the peaks etc. Of course there are plenty of breaks but personally I prefer short more frequent breaks and stops at calls. A petrol turbo does just fine these days, about 500 miles to a tank motorway cruising. 

 

I agree alternative technology will be the future,  I am just not certain EV is the future for all, it maybe be part if it for some but its not complete, maybe it will be in future but I think it needs to improve a lot. It's fine for those who have short journeys daily I agree, it becomes problematic; say when they wish to visit family in the North over Christmas in cold weather and there's 300 EVs waiting for charge at Roadchef! Half the stupid chargers won't work, the app has crashed, talk about unecessary myther! Currently that's not sustainable, the infrastructure is not there. 7 years is not a long time to build that out, especially with Britains record on infrastructure in recent times, over budget, late and or not working. 

 

Toyota and JLR, JCB have been working on hydrogen engines for commercial use. Toyota have one working in a Yaris.

 

I'm kinda hoping that there's an alternative to EVs, some choice.

 

Much like anything else I'm happy for people to find a solution that works for them but I do object being forced down a route by governments banning things, when actually in reality environmentally there's little gained when your power plants run on gas or coal! 

[bmt]

1 hour ago, Foxin_Mad said:

There are new developments all the time in this area. Frankly a new electric car isn't particularly green. The battery is made of rare earth minerals, most if the interior is plastic. You are looking at the best part of 50k before it's as green as it petrol equivalent and even further before its as green as a 5 year old petrol equivalent. Basically having new cars full stop is not green, but obviously noone wants to admit that! 

I agree with this 100% btw was just also mouthing hydrogen 

[Daggers]

6 hours ago, bmt said:

I agree with this 100% btw was just also mouthing hydrogen 

You kids and your TikTok crazes! What are you like!

[dsr-burnley]

12 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Toyota are (perhaps overconfidently) claiming that they will be selling solid state battery EVs by 2026-27 that will have a range of 600-900 miles and do a full charge in around ten minutes. By the time 2030 (or 2035) comes around petrol and diesel is going to seem so old hat nobody will want them anyway. Diesel's pretty much disappeared from new car sales already

 

What will be interesting is the effect on car pricing.  If solid state 10-minute charging 900m range cars come along, then the current electric 40-minute charge 300m range will be so far behind the curve as to be obselete.  So how much are the new electric vehicles going to cost, how much are the now-obselete electric vehicles going to sell for second hand, what will happen to the manufacturers who haven't the new technology and basically can't sell their existing new cars, and what will be the knock-on effect on the second hand petrol car market?  (Or even the new petrol car market, since the EU as a whole is going to allow sales of petrol cars till 2035?)

[tom27111]

Hydrogen should be what all manufacturers look to develop. 

 

I believe it would take around 10 minutes to fuel for a few hundred miles.

 

The only emission from the vehicle would be water. 

 

At the moment, I think there's only one  hydrogen fuelling station in the country, but there's also only one, very rare, hydrogen vehicle available. 

 

To make a true vehicle that's environmentally friendly, it certainly wouldn't be electric.

 

The minerals needed for batteries are rare and come at an environmental cost, as does then producing these batteries.

 

Plus, you still have to charge the vehicle. How do you think electricity is produced?

[Jattdogg]

1 hour ago, tom27111 said:

Hydrogen should be what all manufacturers look to develop. 

 

I believe it would take around 10 minutes to fuel for a few hundred miles.

 

The only emission from the vehicle would be water. 

 

At the moment, I think there's only one  hydrogen fuelling station in the country, but there's also only one, very rare, hydrogen vehicle available. 

 

To make a true vehicle that's environmentally friendly, it certainly wouldn't be electric.

 

The minerals needed for batteries are rare and come at an environmental cost, as does then producing these batteries.

 

Plus, you still have to charge the vehicle. How do you think electricity is produced?

If we could harness the electricity from men and teens wanking from leicester alone, it could charge the earth for centuries. Imagine the possibilities.