okie fox Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 On 25/02/2017 at 11:20, Thracian said: Doctors, lecturers, scientists are just three fields where the people I've met are about as arrogant as they come. Just as a matter of curiosity, are you an expert on doctors, lecturers, scientists as well as everything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 12 minutes ago, Webbo said: I don't believe you can go from being one of the lads to being boss. I think you lack the authority to do your job properly. It'd probably be okay till the end of the season but not long term. History doesn't have many examples of where the assistant has successfully taken the top job. Depends how much respect the "assistant" has in the first place. Isn't history there to be made rather than copied? Because there's certainly countless examples of non "lads" being made managers and doing a disastrous job. Look at Gary Neville for a fairly recent example. But even the string of managers we've sacked over the years and all the managers other clubs have sacked along the way, including some who've been multiple choices like Mark McGhee. Surely looked at that way it's hard to discount the assistants. Maybe it's even an argument for more being given a chance because it happens enough in wider industry. Some even encourage the idea of promoting from within - including my own son - and it has worked admirably so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealot Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 We need a Pearson-Ranieri hybrid. So far Shakespeare appears to be just that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 1 minute ago, Thracian said: Depends how much respect the "assistant" has in the first place. Isn't history there to be made rather than copied? Because there's certainly countless examples of non "lads" being made managers and doing a disastrous job. Look at Gary Neville for a fairly recent example. But even the string of managers we've sacked over the years and all the managers other clubs have sacked along the way, including some who've been multiple choices like Mark McGhee. Surely looked at that way it's hard to discount the assistants. Maybe it's even an argument for more being given a chance because it happens enough in wider industry. Rob Kelly was the last assistant to be given the job full time and look how that worked out. If Shakespeare were to go elsewhere as manager he could well be a massive success. But after years of setting out the cones and being a go between for the players and manager here I don't think the players would give him the respect required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 1 hour ago, Babylon said: Was thinking about this today. The next appointment is massive really, has to be someone the current lot can buy into for a while. But someone also strong enough to start the transition away from the Pearson era. I think they were probably correct on this occasion, but having the players essentially picking how we play (do they pick the team as well!!) I'm not entirely comfortable with. Many of them are in their 30's now, so we're going to have to begin transitioning one or two players out each year now anyway. And we've already lost a fair few of the backroom team. The inclusive nature of Pearson behind the scenes seems to be one of the biggest things as this seemed to get everyone pulling in the right direction. A good man manager who treats the players like men is another, the players all seemed to know where they stood with him. The more I thought about it, Dyche seemed like the sort of person who the current lot could respond to, seems a similar sort of manager, plays a similar way, buys a similar sort of player. So he'll fit into what we have, but will have the strength to bring in his own people as well and start the transition. So there you have it... old gravel throat it is. Chelsea tried clearing out their squad of players who believed 'they' were the club a few years ago. Ranieri was right in attempting to get our players to try another tactic and a new manager will undoubtedly have a different opinion (unless it's CS), so the next couple of years could see some upset players and fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: Rob Kelly was the last assistant to be given the job full time and look how that worked out. If Shakespeare were to go elsewhere as manager he could well be a massive success. But after years of setting out the cones and being a go between for the players and manager here I don't think the players would give him the respect required. A bit cruel comparing Kelly to Shakespeare. The bloke set up for a nil-nil in a cup match and was never going to be the calibre of manager we wanted - as I said loud and clear before and after his appointment. Shakespeare demonstrably has our current team's respect. They've already been quoted as wanting his appointment and that seemed pretty clearly apparent during the Liverpool game, not because we won but because so many players worked so hard for one another and ran themselves to a standstill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 1 minute ago, Thracian said: A bit cruel comparing Kelly to Shakespeare. The bloke set up for a nil-nil in a cup match and was never going to be the calibre of manager we wanted - as I said loud and clear before and after his appointment. Shakespeare demonstrably has our current team's respect. They've already been quoted as wanting his appointment and that seemed pretty clearly apparent during the Liverpool game, not because we won but because so many players worked so hard for one another and ran themselves to a standstill . There's a difference between like and respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 7 minutes ago, hackneyfox said: Chelsea tried clearing out their squad of players who believed 'they' were the club a few years ago. Ranieri was right in attempting to get our players to try another tactic and a new manager will undoubtedly have a different opinion (unless it's CS), so the next couple of years could see some upset players and fans. Ranieri was serially wrong over the last nine months or so. Indeed it's hard to recall any manager making so many mistakes in such a short time and from such a strong position. I'd wish it were otherwise but am a lot happier about our future prospects now than I was a week ago. Unless we end up with Hodgson or some of the other doobies whose names have been quoted by the bookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 17 minutes ago, okie fox said: Just as a matter of curiosity, are you an expert on doctors, lecturers, scientists as well as everything else? I've never claimed to be an "expert" on anything and don't much like the word given the number of mistakes "experts" seem to make. But, I've met my share of all three in various capacities...and I'm talking about Premiership level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfoxes Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 What with all the shit in the papers etc !! Absolutely NO TO HODGSON OR PEARSON !! Would rather see shakey take the role til the end of the season then concentrate on finding one in the closed season !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmarteyAndChill Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 53 minutes ago, Webbo said: Bouremouth's stadium holds 11,000. It's a miracle they're in this division. They have spent a lot of money. Cook-£15m Ibe-£15m Adobe-£12 King-£8m and gradel-£8m. That's over £50m spent in 1 1/2 seasons in the prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 35 minutes ago, Webbo said: There's a difference between like and respect. If either of those words was inappropriate, I'm sure the players view would have been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okie fox Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 18 minutes ago, Thracian said: I've never claimed to be an "expert" on anything and don't much like the word given the number of mistakes "experts" seem to make. But, I've met my share of all three in various capacities...and I'm talking about Premiership level. Well, you seem to be an expert on arrogance since you stereotyped doctors and scientists as arrogant. Thanks a lot for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 21 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said: They have spent a lot of money. Cook-£15m Ibe-£15m Adobe-£12 King-£8m and gradel-£8m. That's over £50m spent in 1 1/2 seasons in the prem. So does every other team in the PL. The fact that he got them there and has so far kept them there is an achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 4 minutes ago, okie fox said: Well, you seem to be an expert on arrogance since you stereotyped doctors and scientists as arrogant. Thanks a lot for that. That's not true - I referred specifically to people I'd met and the consequences were pretty awful on occasions. There are tens of thousands I haven't met who might be the most modest, understated people on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 5 minutes ago, Thracian said: If either of those words was inappropriate, I'm sure the players view would have been different. I'm sure there are successful examples of an assistant getting the top job full time and matching or exceeding his predecessor but I can't think of any off hand. There has to be a reason for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 Shake 'n' Vac is back to favourite on the odds list just ahead of Woy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichfox Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 27 minutes ago, Webbo said: I'm sure there are successful examples of an assistant getting the top job full time and matching or exceeding his predecessor but I can't think of any off hand. There has to be a reason for that. Mourinho to Bobby Robson (Porto) Joe Fagan to Bill Paisley (Liverpool) and Bill Paisley to the great Bill Shankley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 Hodgson is getting more and more backing at the bookies. Surely the club couldn't be this stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 1 minute ago, norwichfox said: Mourinho to Bobby Robson Joe Fagan to Bill Paisley Mourihno never managed Barcelona. Joe Fagin was less successful than Paisley although if you've got to go that far back it sort of proves my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichfox Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 2 minutes ago, Col city fan said: Hodgson is getting more and more backing at the bookies. Surely the club couldn't be this stupid? Fav is shared between Shakey and The dreaded Woy if you look at all the betting sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themightyfin Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 2 minutes ago, Col city fan said: Hodgson is getting more and more backing at the bookies. Surely the club couldn't be this stupid? Wouldn't say that. Best prices have Shakes fav now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 1 hour ago, zealot said: If teams fall into the trap of not worrying about our strengths -as both Liverpool and Man City have done this season- then we do fine but the problem comes when we come up against a smarter team that works to frustrate us. This is just not true though. All our problems are of our own making. If we stick to what we're good at we're actually very difficult to stop. There's little evidence to suggest we've struggled when we've implemented our style properly - as in being committed to pressing and using a lot of men in attacks. They couldn't stop us last season when they started to sit back, we just kept knocking on the door. Even if we couldn't get behind, we still had the same basic attacking philosophy and the same players. Sometimes we used Ulloa for height, or Gray/Schlupp for pace out wide, or we kept giving it Mahrez for some magic. So we had plan Bs and Cs, as we should going forward. But our style isn't one dimensional any more than Arsenal's is. You stick to what you're good at, you just need to tweak things slightly to make a difference. We need to keep our philosophy for as long as possible, it's entertaining and it's effective because it's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunyip Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 41 minutes ago, okie fox said: Well, you seem to be an expert on arrogance since you stereotyped doctors and scientists as arrogant. Thanks a lot for that. Ever thought stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfosse Posted 1 March 2017 Share Posted 1 March 2017 37 minutes ago, Webbo said: I'm sure there are successful examples of an assistant getting the top job full time and matching or exceeding his predecessor but I can't think of any off hand. There has to be a reason for that. I suspect it's partly because they seldom get the chance. Most assistants or coaches leave when the manager gets sacked. Not an Assustant I know, but Guardiola from coaching Barcelona B to the first team was a successful internal promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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