Babylon Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 23 minutes ago, Gerard said: Plenty of players at Spanish and Portuguese clubs have players on €50m release fees and are worth about €5-10m. Look at Silva who we tried to sign from Sporting and IIRC had just signed a 4 year £17k a week contract but had a £40m release fee, those two figures don't add up. It's the culture in most of these countries and the players just accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtmcfly Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 25 minutes ago, Babylon said: Because one proved themselves to be a total failure and we were shown to have over paid. Meaning he wasn't wanted by another premier league club, the ones who have just had their money booted. Honestly, I understand how we arrived at that position. I know why these players have their respective current valuations. I have a problem with the contention that some on here (you would have to include yourself in this) knew all along how it would pan out with e.g. Gray, or by the same token that a release clause of four times his transfer fee for Kramaric would have been laughably irrelevant. People use hindsight way to much to castigate Rudkin et al for making decisions which won't have looked half as daft when they were made. And all of this without anyone knowing what actually went on negotiation wise. A question - how many players have we 'lost' because of a release clause i.e. without a release clause we could have realistically kept them here (or realistically got a higher fee for them)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 All is forgiven Rudders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue army 1988 Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 9 minutes ago, Babylon said: We've still had two wanky buy out clauses, so most of the points still stand. Kante was one but who was the second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 3 minutes ago, turtmcfly said: Honestly, I understand how we arrived at that position. I know why these players have their respective current valuations. I have a problem with the contention that some on here (you would have to include yourself in this) knew all along how it would pan out with e.g. Gray, or by the same token that a release clause of four times his transfer fee for Kramaric would have been laughably irrelevant. People use hindsight way to much to castigate Rudkin et al for making decisions which won't have looked half as daft when they were made. And all of this without anyone knowing what actually went on negotiation wise. A question - how many players have we 'lost' because of a release clause i.e. without a release clause we could have realistically kept them here (or realistically got a higher fee for them)? ....having said that you're still lacking pretty basic negotiation skills and foresight. If we're buying a young English player and thought he would be worth no more than £12m after a couple of seasons then I'd question why we were signing him the first place. It's not like he's massively overachieved here, we're still judging him largely on potential, same as they were during negotiations. £12m would always have been ridiculously low, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 1 minute ago, turtmcfly said: Honestly, I understand how we arrived at that position. I know why these players have their respective current valuations. I have a problem with the contention that some on here (you would have to include yourself in this) knew all along how it would pan out with e.g. Gray, or by the same token that a release clause of four times his transfer fee for Kramaric would have been laughably irrelevant. Nobody knows what will happen with specific players, but it was said on here before this summer by myself and plenty of others that with the new tv deal players would want more wages and clubs would want more for their players. A rise in market prices across the board for players in demand was entirely predictable. English clubs have long paid a premium on the continent, that's been admitted by clubs abroad, stood to reason they would increase that premium with the new deal. Whilst at home, clubs no longer need the money from transfers and have the money to see off potential suitors, so it takes more cash to get their assets. We've only lost Kante at the minute, but could have lost Vardy. These clauses seem a new thing for us, so my worry is about all of our other renegotiated contracts over the last year and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 3 minutes ago, blue army 1988 said: Kante was one but who was the second? Vardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue army 1988 Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 15 minutes ago, Babylon said: Vardy. Didn't realise that was a release clause. Just thought we hadn't allowed him to speak to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtmcfly Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 14 minutes ago, Babylon said: Nobody knows what will happen with specific players, but it was said on here before this summer by myself and plenty of others that with the new tv deal players would want more wages and clubs would want more for their players. A rise in market prices across the board for players in demand was entirely predictable. English clubs have long paid a premium on the continent, that's been admitted by clubs abroad, stood to reason they would increase that premium with the new deal. Whilst at home, clubs no longer need the money from transfers and have the money to see off potential suitors, so it takes more cash to get their assets. We've only lost Kante at the minute, but could have lost Vardy. These clauses seem a new thing for us, so my worry is about all of our other renegotiated contracts over the last year and a half. You say clubs would 'want 'more'. Well of course. But it's not the general direction of travel that's in question, it's the degree. Serious question - no sarcasm! Do you think we could have held on to Kante if he hadn't got a release clause? Of for that matter it would have made a difference to us stopping Vardy going to Arsenal if he'd wanted to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarriedaLeicesterGirl Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 24 minutes ago, Babylon said: It's the culture in most of these countries and the players just accept it. It's insane. I know Spain requires buyout clauses, not sure about Portugal. But there is a reason...elite players playing for peanuts, and no escape. Managers would rather play them in the B-squad than lose face by selling them for less than their insanely high evaluation (look at the Silva deal, and Sporting needs the money). When forced to put in clauses, clubs just set them so high, they effectively don't exist. Complain as much as you want about the Premier League, football is freaking feudal in some of these places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 6 minutes ago, turtmcfly said: You say clubs would 'want 'more'. Well of course. But it's not the general direction of travel that's in question, it's the degree. Serious question - no sarcasm! Do you think we could have held on to Kante if he hadn't got a release clause? Of for that matter it would have made a difference to us stopping Vardy going to Arsenal if he'd wanted to? There has been a 42.86% increase in in money for just the bottom team alone, a minimum of an extra £30m per team to spend is a lot of cash. I think we could have held on to him without it, for one season at least. If we couldn't we'd have got closer to his true value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtmcfly Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 25 minutes ago, Kitchandro said: ....having said that you're still lacking pretty basic negotiation skills and foresight. If we're buying a young English player and thought he would be worth no more than £12m after a couple of seasons then I'd question why we were signing him the first place. It's not like he's massively overachieved here, we're still judging him largely on potential, same as they were during negotiations. £12m would always have been ridiculously low, end of story. I'm certainly lacking details of exactly what was on the table, what other options he had (or made up) etc., without which my admittedly basic negotiation skills would be even more sorely taxed than usual. I'm going to ask you the question I've asked you before. If a 12 million release clause was a sticking point with him and his representatives, without which he would have refused to sign a deal, should we have walked away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozartfox Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 48 minutes ago, turtmcfly said: Honestly, I understand how we arrived at that position. I know why these players have their respective current valuations. I have a problem with the contention that some on here (you would have to include yourself in this) knew all along how it would pan out with e.g. Gray, or by the same token that a release clause of four times his transfer fee for Kramaric would have been laughably irrelevant. People use hindsight way to much to castigate Rudkin et al for making decisions which won't have looked half as daft when they were made. And all of this without anyone knowing what actually went on negotiation wise. A question - how many players have we 'lost' because of a release clause i.e. without a release clause we could have realistically kept them here (or realistically got a higher fee for them)? You make some good points there Rudders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chocolate Teapot Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 Told you lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtmcfly Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 17 minutes ago, mozartfox said: You make some good points there Rudders. Thank you very much. You should also know that I talked Gray up from 11.75 million.That, my friend, is why I'm here and you're... well, you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STUHILL Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 4 hours ago, Babylon said: £12m is a fair amount for where he is in his career now, but it's not a fair amount for where he could be in a year or two. That's my issue. Gray is comparable to say Redmond who signed for saints for £10m in the summer, he's had a good season and now you'd probably have to start bidding at around £20m. This. I actually think a fair fee for him right now would be about 12 million, but his potential is worth a lot more, and to have such a low release clause is baffling. I'd be surprised if he doesn't go in the summer if this is true. I guess we have to give kudos to his agent, and he will now use this to get a higher wage elsewhere or force our hand, into offering him a much better deal. Obviously we don't know how the negotiations went down originally, and we could have been offered a 12 million release clause or NO deal scenario, but it does seem strange that a 19 year old at the time, moving to a Premier League club, could have such a demand but more so, why we accepted it and didn't negotiate harder. I'd prefer to have given him a higher weekly wage than this crappy release clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STUHILL Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 What I would say about him potentially leaving due to this release clause, I'd be surprised if a bigger club than us came in for him, and if they did, he is likely to have even less game time than he will potentially get with us next season, especially if Mahrez goes. I can't see him starting at Liverpool or even Everton anytime soon. I think we still have a decent chance of holding onto him, but a new deal will have to be agreed and I'm sure that is what his agent is aiming for. I read some sites that said he is on 20k a week, but most say he is only on 5k a week! Either way, if we want to keep him and he sees himself as a starter next season, then I'd imagine he will be wanting 30-40k in any new deal. Personally, I would get him tied down to a new contract asap, as I rate him very highly and can only see him getting better and better. If we lost him to a West Ham or Palace type club due to this 12million release clause, then I'd be gutted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxfordfox83 Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 1 hour ago, Babylon said: There has been a 42.86% increase in in money for just the bottom team alone, a minimum of an extra £30m per team to spend is a lot of cash. I think we could have held on to him without it, for one season at least. If we couldn't we'd have got closer to his true value. I'm with you on all points up to here, but we had to fight for Kante and only just got him in. He was never excited about us, and while he was worth more than Chelsea paid, I actually think the club got it right in terms of getting the deal done with a reasonable (though not overwhelming) release clause. 12m is too low for Gray, but as it's probably fiction anyway it doesn't matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 According to the Mercury there is no release clause in his contract, so perhaps we are getting excited about nothing. Shock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 Don't worry, one will be inserted in the next few months when he signs a new deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 3 hours ago, Babylon said: Vardy. Wasn't that more that we just accepted 25m for him and that it was his choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 Ten pages on some made up mirror claim. I hate intentional breaks. At least Vardy bagged one in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 1 minute ago, Ric Flair said: Don't worry, one will be inserted in the next few months when he signs a new deal. The next will be Chilwell. My headline prediction; "Everton will match Ben Chilwell's 15m release clause in a bid to prise him away from the King Power Stadium" That's ripped from a template these rags use. "*** will match *** *** release clause in a bid to prise him away from the ***" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 8 minutes ago, AKCJ said: Wasn't that more that we just accepted 25m for him and that it was his choice? It wasn't even that much was it? It was £20m and which triggered the release clause and allowed him to speak to Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 27 March 2017 Share Posted 27 March 2017 7 hours ago, Babylon said: The point is... why the fook is a kid from Birmingham in any position to be inserting a clause into his contract in the first place. Huge wage rise, bigger shop window and coming to a team top of the league. We shouldn't be needing to insert any kind of clause (unless it's a relegation one), especially a £12m one when people seemed to think we'd got a bit of a bargain anyway when he signed. Letting young talent dictate release clauses is suicidal, doesn't matter if it's 3 or 4 times what you paid. Because if they do proves themselves, you'll be getting a fraction of the true value. Any release clause should only be inserted with the following in mind. The fee is reflective of what they would be worth if they proved themselves and became the top talent we thought them capable of being, hence us trying to sign them. Who you have refused to sign him if he insisted on a RC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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