Brexit Discussion Thread.

[Guest MattP]

Merkel could take a battering and Marine Le Pen could be in the President's chair

Both scenarios probably benefit us.

[Grewks]

According to the BBC

The EU does not control how much we spend on, or what our priorities are, for public services such as the NHS, schools, community services or libraries. The UK government decides on those issues.

 

Just wondered what things you had in mind??

 

 

 

Not true.

 

 

According to the BBC, in 2014 our net contribution to the E.U stood at £18.8 billion.

 

Of this £18.8 billion, we receive £4.6 billion back as a rebate, negotiated way back my Thatcher.

 

 

 

The other £14.2 billion goes straight to the E.U. The E.U. controls all of this, we cannot decide to invest this in the NHS, for example, if we stay in the E.U.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Uniting Europe, Dividing nations". That should be the slogan for the European Union. It's disgraceful how the current system has damaged democracy so badly, to the extent that people like yourself are continuing to disregard the Brexit vote. There was a clear majority. People in this country want change. We want democracy back. We want to hold parliament to account again, something we haven't been able to do since the power shift to Brussels.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

@@Grewks

£14.2 million of £772 million is less than 2% I believe.

Oh and part of democracy is being able to hold different views. Those on the losing side who wish to hold and air a different view continue to have the right to do just that, much the same as some euro sceptics did for a long time prior to the most recent referendum.

[Great Boos Up]

According to the BBC! a company whom by law we are dictated to pay money into.

Try a referendum on that one!

[Strokes]

@@Grewks

£14.2 million of £772 million is less than 2% I believe.

Oh and part of democracy is being able to hold different views. Those on the losing side who wish to hold and air a different view continue to have the right to do just that, much the same as some euro sceptics did for a long time prior to the most recent referendum.

It's funny, I've been a big euro sceptic for so long, I've never really liked the thing since I learned about it. I've always felt free to voice my dismay, disgust or discontent. So you fill your boots Barry, I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you. You might get more people listen to you, than I ever did.

[The Guvnor]

Different views by disenchanted remainers is all good, however hissy fit petitions and marches have some dignity in defeat, and posting rants with ' I don't want to go down the road of calling Brexiteers thick' or words to that effect wears a bit thin.  

[Dr The Singh]

Different views by disenchanted remainers is all good, however hissy fit petitions and marches have some dignity in defeat, and posting rants with ' I don't want to go down the road of calling Brexiteers thick' or words to that effect wears a bit thin.

I struggle to understand where these people have the time??

[The Doctor]

Hammond to Chancellor looks solid, he was chief secretary to the treasury wasn't he? Can't imagine Gideon as a diplomat but we'll see.

Leadsom to environment seems a natural progression as well, hopefully more climate change sceptic than Rudd.

I'd rather have politicians that adopted evidence based policy than stuck their head in the ground and did nothing because reality doesn't suit their opinions tbh

[Jon the Hat]

Is there anyone on the Brexit side left?

 

How do you mean left?  Apart from thaUKIP twat Farage who was more hindrance than help to the leave campaign, where do you think they have gone exactly?  They were MPs before and are MPs now.  You will see a lot of them in Cabinet posts in the coming weeks, especially on the BREXIT team.

[Thracian]

@@Grewks

£14.2 million of £772 million is less than 2% I believe.

Oh and part of democracy is being able to hold different views. Those on the losing side who wish to hold and air a different view continue to have the right to do just that, much the same as some euro sceptics did for a long time prior to the most recent referendum.

 

 

Ironic you say that when so much has been given to the EU without being openly discussed or mandated at all. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Ironic you say that when so much has been given to the EU without being openly discussed or mandated at all.

But that would suggest you don't recognise the 1970's referendum... which confirms my secondary point, no one has to accept the result, they can winge and complain and scheme as much as they want.

[Thracian]

How do you mean left?  Apart from thaUKIP twat Farage who was more hindrance than help to the leave campaign, where do you think they have gone exactly?  They were MPs before and are MPs now.  You will see a lot of them in Cabinet posts in the coming weeks, especially on the BREXIT team.

 

 

 And I don't think most "Leavers" among the population have changed their minds either. Though a good many Remainders might when they see the world won't come to an end just because we've restored our independence and taken back our right to chose and to shape our own future and philosophy.         

[Thracian]

But that would suggest you don't recognise the 1970's referendum... which confirms my secondary point, no one has to accept the result, they can winge and complain and scheme as much as they want.

 

If you're referring to the 1975 Common Market referendum there was never any mention that I recall about federalisation, mass immigration or being subordinate to the European Court of Human Rights.

 

It was the TUC and Len Murray who seemed to see the picture most clearly judging by his comment that he remained "adamantly opposed to the EEC" and that "Many of the most important decisions about our future can only be taken here in Britain." 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

If you're referring to the 1975 Common Market referendum there was never any mention that I recall about federalisation, mass immigration or being subordinate to the European Court of Human Rights.

 

It was the TUC and Len Murray who seemed to see the picture most clearly judging by his comment that he remained "adamantly opposed to the EEC" and that "Many of the most important decisions about our future can only be taken here in Britain." [/size]

But the vote to leave is a vote on equally uncertain terms... And although you may claim Soverignity has been restored, that's not much use in a one main stream functioning party situation.

[Thracian]

But the vote to leave is a vote on equally uncertain terms... And although you may claim Soverignity has been restored, that's not much use in a one main stream functioning party situation.

 

 

There was nothing ambiguous about the latest referendum. It was "Leave" or "Remain". Where's the evidence that the future terms will not be put into the public domain and debated before being adopted, especially with UKIP MEPs still sitting and doubtless being fully briefed on the terms of "Leaving"?.    

[BoyJones]

One of the strengths and weaknesses of this country is that minorities think they can bully and threaten to get what they want. It's a constant feature of everyday life in the UK.

People in the majority regarding the referendum are called thick or racist and basically have no grasp of the bigger picture. It is annoying and basically just strengthens my resolve that the right decision was reached.

There is an argument that the remainers are anti British and would be pleased to see our armed forces disbanded and borders opened to all and sundry. In my grandfathers time they were called fifth columnists.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

There was nothing ambiguous about the latest referendum. It was "Leave" or "Remain". Where's the evidence that the future terms will not be put into the public domain and debated before being adopted, especially with UKIP MEPs still sitting and doubtless being fully briefed on the terms of "Leaving"?.

You say that, but a Leave vote has triggered a new Prime Minister, one that many wouldn't have foreseen. We're not exactly sure what terms an exit will be on OR when that process will be started. Is that not ambiguous enough for you?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

One of the strengths and weaknesses of this country is that minorities think they can bully and threaten to get what they want. It's a constant feature of everyday life in the UK.

People in the majority regarding the referendum are called thick or racist and basically have no grasp of the bigger picture. It is annoying and basically just strengthens my resolve that the right decision was reached.

There is an argument that the remainers are anti British and would be pleased to see our armed forces disbanded and borders opened to all and sundry. In my grandfathers time they were called fifth columnists.

So you thought you'd voice you dissatisfaction as generalisations by voicing your own opinion on the generalisation of the other side?

[Thracian]

You say that, but a Leave vote has triggered a new Prime Minister, one that many wouldn't have foreseen. We're not exactly sure what terms an exit will be on OR when that process will be started. Is that not ambiguous enough for you?

 

 

No-one knew what sort of "Leave" we'd have under Cameron any more than May. You're just clutching at straws. But it won't be underhand like in the past, at least I hope not.  What it might be is somewhat short of what the Leavers wanted.   

[leicsmac]

One of the strengths and weaknesses of this country is that minorities think they can bully and threaten to get what they want. It's a constant feature of everyday life in the UK.

People in the majority regarding the referendum are called thick or racist and basically have no grasp of the bigger picture. It is annoying and basically just strengthens my resolve that the right decision was reached.

There is an argument that the remainers are anti British and would be pleased to see our armed forces disbanded and borders opened to all and sundry. In my grandfathers time they were called fifth columnists.

 

 

Probably so. But perhaps we're moving away from condemning such people for not being one-eyed jingoistic nationalists to the (probable) detriment of the future and trying to take a more nuanced view of the whole thing?

 

Or perhaps not.

[Carl the Llama]

Not true.

 

 

According to the BBC, in 2014 our net contribution to the E.U stood at £18.8 billion.

 

Of this £18.8 billion, we receive £4.6 billion back as a rebate, negotiated way back my Thatcher.

 

 

 

The other £14.2 billion goes straight to the E.U. The E.U. controls all of this, we cannot decide to invest this in the NHS, for example, if we stay in the E.U.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Uniting Europe, Dividing nations". That should be the slogan for the European Union. It's disgraceful how the current system has damaged democracy so badly, to the extent that people like yourself are continuing to disregard the Brexit vote. There was a clear majority. People in this country want change. We want democracy back. We want to hold parliament to account again, something we haven't been able to do since the power shift to Brussels.

The way I see it there's a difference between EU membership obligating us to pay in some of our public funds and our otherwise independent government not allocating anywhere near enough of the remaining public funds to the NHS.   Since you wanted democracy back do you mind me asking when an EU directive has affected your ability to successfully engage in the UK's democratic processes and how it altered the results of your attempts to do so?

 

I also find it somewhat disingenuous to call a 3.8pp difference in opinions a "clear majority". 

 

One of the strengths and weaknesses of this country is that minorities think they can bully and threaten to get what they want. It's a constant feature of everyday life in the UK.

People in the majority regarding the referendum are called thick or racist and basically have no grasp of the bigger picture. It is annoying and basically just strengthens my resolve that the right decision was reached.

There is an argument that the remainers are anti British and would be pleased to see our armed forces disbanded and borders opened to all and sundry. In my grandfathers time they were called fifth columnists.

Minorities as in just under 50% of the voting populace?

 

I'm not sure how that strengthens your resolve, surely a salient argument giving concrete benefits of leaving the EU would serve better (as in one not based on a misunderstanding or else deliberate obfuscation of the current state of affairs)?  Let me know when you find one.

 

There is also an argument that people who wanted to leave would be pleased to see our government use our armed forces to impose martial law on the population since we're apparently now abandoning all reason to talk about consequences of the vote that were never on the table.

[leicsmac]

I'd rather have politicians that adopted evidence based policy than stuck their head in the ground and did nothing because reality doesn't suit their opinions tbh

 

This.

 

But then since when have UK politicians treated the STEM community as anything more than an amusing sideshow to be occasionally entertained as needed?

[Guest MattP]

Isn't the evidence now starting to show the planet is warming at a far slower rate than originally first thought? Piers Corbyn is very good on this, certainly seems to be the case they now all agree they need more years of research for anything definitive.

I'm just glad it's back on the table and being debated again; the BBC seemed to think it was case closed two years back, we should always have some scepticism about things the people involved fill their pockets with and politicians use to increase taxation.

[leicsmac]

Isn't the evidence now starting to show the planet is warming at a far slower rate than originally first thought? Piers Corbyn is very good on this, certainly seems to be the case they now all agree they need more years of research for anything definitive.

I'm just glad it's back on the table and being debated again; the BBC seemed to think it was case closed two years back, we should always have some scepticism about things the people involved fill their pockets with and politicians use to increase taxation.

There are others more well versed in this on here than I am, but as far as I can tell the only certainty is that carbon dioxide levels are rising pretty drastically, and that will have important future effects. What they are, and the level of human influence on that rise, are still up for debate, but we can't stick our head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening, either.

In any case, I was more making the point that it's not only this issue on which the UK political community (and to a lesser extent the wider public) treats the majority of scientists with mild ridicule at best, contempt at worst.

[Guest MattP]

There are others more well versed in this on here than I am, but as far as I can tell the only certainty is that carbon dioxide levels are rising pretty drastically, and that will have important future effects. What they are, and the level of human influence on that rise, are still up for debate, but we can't stick our head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening, either.

In any case, I was more making the point that it's not only this issue on which the UK political community (and to a lesser extent the wider public) treats the majority of scientists with mild ridicule at best, contempt at worst.

 

That's partly there own fault though, East Anglia University is the obvious one but we have seen numerous bodies going against all scientific teaching to make sure figures came to the conclusion they wanted them too.

 

When scientists start fiddling figures to suit a political agenda you can't blame the public for then showing sceptism, even if it is a small minority.