Brexit Discussion Thread.

[Thracian]

On 8/19/2016 at 17:05, yorkie1999 said:

That new bmw is gonna cost 20% more because of the exchange rate post Brexit vote, so i don't think i'll bother buying it. Who's worse off? 

Perhaps it'll encourage us to build more decent cars of our own. Indeed there's been news of extending serious vehicle building in Coventry already.... http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/exclusive-multi-million-pound-jaguar-8910574

[yorkie1999]

20 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Perhaps it'll encourage us to build more decent cars of our own. Indeed there's been news of extending serious vehicle building in Coventry already.... http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/exclusive-multi-million-pound-jaguar-8910574

I think i was making a point about brexit fears to do with the cost of imported goods rising, which i don't think they will due to the fact people will only pay so much before they look for alternatives. I'd love an evoque.

[Buce]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Another idiot on the radio this morning criticising the points based immigration system on the basis that Australia has higher net migration than we do!  YES you fool, because they WANT higher net migration, and with a points based system, they can choose to have it, and indeed how many points they give for the skills and professions and so on that they want and need. 

 

The points-based immigration system that Saint Theresa has now rejected?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37271420

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

I think i was making a point about brexit fears to do with the cost of imported goods rising, which i don't think they will due to the fact people will only pay so much before they look for alternatives. I'd love an evoque.

I have a loan Evoque from Land Rover today, it is nice, albeit pretty small, quite a hard ride too, but I suppose it has to be to corner so well given its height.  Quite nippy too - 2.2 Pure or something.

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

The points-based immigration system that Saint Theresa has now rejected?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37271420

The Australians also have a quota, so the idea that anyone who passes can come in is also wrong.  You wonder whether politicians do any ****ing research sometimes.

[Innovindil]

8 hours ago, Thracian said:

Perhaps it'll encourage us to build more decent cars of our own. Indeed there's been news of extending serious vehicle building in Coventry already.... http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/exclusive-multi-million-pound-jaguar-8910574

Wow that's funny timing, the engineering place I work for has just started doing work for the jaguar place 

 

An expansion for them is fantastic news for us tbh.

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Wow that's funny timing, the engineering place I work for has just started doing work for the jaguar place 

 

An expansion for them is fantastic news for us tbh.

 

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Wow that's funny timing, the engineering place I work for has just started doing work for the jaguar place 

 

An expansion for them is fantastic news for us tbh.

Happy days! 

[Guest MattP]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-city-of-london-economists-scrap-recession-forecasts-a7228671.html

 

Brexit latest: City of London economists scrap recession forecasts

Positive data in recent weeks has prompted several economics teams at Square Mile institutions to upgrade their forecasts

 

Quote

 

City of London economists have been revising away their expectations of a new UK recession on the back of surprisingly solid economic data and industrial surveys since the Brexit vote as well as anticipated stimulus from the Bank of England and the Government.

In the wake of the 23 June referendum result most City forecasters slashed their growth forecasts for the UK dramatically, with many pencilling in an outright contraction in GDP for two quarters, a technical recession.

A survey of 35 economists by Bloomberg on 29 June found that 71 per cent of those questioned expected a recession either this year or next.

But the positive data on retail sales in July from the Office for National Statistics and a bounceback in the closely-watched Purchasing Managers’ Indexes in August have prompted several economics teams at Square Mile institutions to revise their forecasts.

 “We’ve ‘marked-to-market’ our growth forecast from a sharp slowdown and Brecession, to a lesser slowdown, which narrowly avoids a technical recession,” said Morgan Stanley’s team.

They had previously forecast a 0.4 per cent contraction in the third quarter of the year, but now they expect growth of 0.4 per cent.

 

 

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-city-of-london-economists-scrap-recession-forecasts-a7228671.html

 

Brexit latest: City of London economists scrap recession forecasts

Positive data in recent weeks has prompted several economics teams at Square Mile institutions to upgrade their forecasts

 

 

its all getting quite embarressing how much backtracking is happening.

Has anyone got any figures on the racist abuse since brexit, ive not heard much on that for a while

[yorkie1999]

On 9/5/2016 at 20:49, Innovindil said:

Wow that's funny timing, the engineering place I work for has just started doing work for the jaguar place 

 

An expansion for them is fantastic news for us tbh.

I reckon what they need to do is manufacture all the parts in this country then produce the cars/4x4's at a lower price than anything the germans produce. It would completely fvck up the german market.

[Darkon84]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

its all getting quite embarressing how much backtracking is happening.

Has anyone got any figures on the racist abuse since brexit, ive not heard much on that for a while

 

Funny you should say that, there was an article on RT yesterday regarding the above, essentially describing post-referendum Britain as fascist, far right and about the most racist place you could live at the moment. No surprise really, given the author is Richard Sudan, who's previously written for the Guardian, Independent and Huff Post and describes himself as a Freelance Journalist & Political Activist living in London  

 

I was going to pick out a few choice quotes of pure ridiculousness, but there were too many so here's the link instead.
 

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/358389-uk-hate-crimes-brexit/

[Guest MattP]

28 minutes ago, Strokes said:

its all getting quite embarressing how much backtracking is happening.

Has anyone got any figures on the racist abuse since brexit, ive not heard much on that for a while

Problem is they thought that if they predicted enough armageddon they would manage to get the vote they wanted.

 

They never thought they would have to live to back up the claims.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

its all getting quite embarressing how much backtracking is happening.

Has anyone got any figures on the racist abuse since brexit, ive not heard much on that for a while

 

Apart from the Polish guy murdered in Harlow, you mean?

 

Or the two Polish guys hospitalised on the day of his funeral?

[RastaDog]

Do keep in my mind that Brexit hasn't actually happened yet, and may not for many years. What has happened is that the exchange rate has made doing business with the UK cheaper. Overseas businesses could simply be making hay while the sun shines, and assessing alternatives.

 

I say that not as a rabid Remainer either. I believe the UK can exist quite successfully outside of the EU.

 

But I wouldn't read into the current situation that there won't be a difficult transition period once Article 50 is invoked.

[Guest MattP]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

Apart from the Polish guy murdered in Harlow, you mean?

 

Or the two Polish guys hospitalised on the day of his funeral?

Have these been confirmed as Brexit related attacks yet? The details seem rather sketchy, the Guardian and the BBC reported that in the immediate aftermath to this is was a Polish bloke who was set upon by a gang of youths who beat him to death in a savage mob attack.

 

The police are now saying it was a fight between two groups of people and he was killed by a single punch - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-37291524

 

I'm just not sure who to believe.

 

 

[Steven]

13 hours ago, MattP said:

Have these been confirmed as Brexit related attacks yet? The details seem rather sketchy, the Guardian and the BBC reported that in the immediate aftermath to this is was a Polish bloke who was set upon by a gang of youths who beat him to death in a savage mob attack.

 

The police are now saying it was a fight between two groups of people and he was killed by a single punch - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-37291524

 

I'm just not sure who to believe.

 

 

 

Lasting rise in hate crime after EU referendum, figures show

Statistics released by NPCC show record figure was reached in final week of July – a 58% increase on 2015 total

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/07/hate-surged-after-eu-referendum-police-figures-show

[Darkon84]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

 

Lasting rise in hate crime after EU referendum, figures show

Statistics released by NPCC show record figure was reached in final week of July – a 58% increase on 2015 total

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/07/hate-surged-after-eu-referendum-police-figures-show

A 'lasting rise', even though figures have now returned to the same level as earlier this year and last year?
 

Quote

 

Mark Hamilton, the NPCC lead for hate crime, said that the reductions in the rate of increase meant they were no longer going to require weekly updates from police forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

“We have seen continued decreases in reports of hate crimes to forces and these reports have now returned to formerly seen levels for 2016. For this reason, we will return to our previous reporting procedures and will no longer be requiring weekly updates from forces,” he said

 

Amber Rudd, the home secretary, went further when she discussed the figures with MPs on the home affairs select committee on Wednesday, saying that the level was back in line with 2015.

“There was a spike in crime after 23 June. I am pleased to say it has now gone back to levels comparable to last year. We are watching it carefully. We will continue to combat hate crime however we can,” she told MPs.

 

It's pathetic that there was a rise in the first place. Hell, it's pathetic that those sort of crimes still happen, but unfortunately I can see these sorts of figures increasing in the coming years, not because we are becoming a more racist country, as the RT article I posted suggests, but because the very definition of 'hate crime' is becoming so broad. For god's sake, people are reporting differing opinions as hate crime now.

[Guest MattP]

3 hours ago, Steven said:

 

Lasting rise in hate crime after EU referendum, figures show

Statistics released by NPCC show record figure was reached in final week of July – a 58% increase on 2015 total

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/07/hate-surged-after-eu-referendum-police-figures-show

Not really anything to do with the question I asked or what I posted but thanks anyway. I was asking whether the Polish "attack" was confirmed as a Brexit hate crime? Because if not a lot of people have used this poor man's death for there own political ends which is quite disagraceful.

 

I'm not surprised hate crime has risen though, not just because some people often behave like idiots on the basis of something but also because recently we've decided to classify wolf whilsting as a hate crime in areas of the country and even complaining to the police about Nigel Farage speaking

 

Not really sure how it's a lasting rise given it's returned to normal now either?

[Guest MattP]

Well the European Army (which was never going to happen in June) is happening, confirmed today by Juncker in his state of the Union address.

 

I'm astounded listening to it, why I don't know but I am, their answer to the current crisis is more Europe and more integration, it's almost like they've just decided to ignore everything that has happened recently. They really are the biggest bunch of fanatics on the planet outside of the Middle East, nothing stops the ideology whatever happens.

 

 

[yorkie1999]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

Well the European Army (which was never going to happen in June) is happening, confirmed today by Juncker in his state of the Union address.

 

I'm astounded listening to it, why I don't know but I am, their answer to the current crisis is more Europe and more integration, it's almost like they've just decided to ignore everything that has happened recently. They really are the biggest bunch of fanatics on the planet outside of the Middle East, nothing stops the ideology whatever happens.

 

 

They could have signed up for one of those 70 years ago.

[sm1]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Well the European Army (which was never going to happen in June) is happening, confirmed today by Juncker in his state of the Union address.

 

I'm astounded listening to it, why I don't know but I am, their answer to the current crisis is more Europe and more integration, it's almost like they've just decided to ignore everything that has happened recently. They really are the biggest bunch of fanatics on the planet outside of the Middle East, nothing stops the ideology whatever happens.

 

 

They'll use any tactics to get what they want. The result of the recent Austrian elections were overturned due to impropriaties (electoral fraud) and now the new elections can't be conducted because of faulty glue. All this because the anti EU candidate was getting too close to winning. That's democracy EU style. 

[foxinexile]

7 hours ago, MattP said:

Well the European Army (which was never going to happen in June) is happening, confirmed today by Juncker in his state of the Union address.

 

I'm astounded listening to it, why I don't know but I am, their answer to the current crisis is more Europe and more integration, it's almost like they've just decided to ignore everything that has happened recently. They really are the biggest bunch of fanatics on the planet outside of the Middle East, nothing stops the ideology whatever happens.

 

 

EU joint military operations have been ongoing for years (I think since 2003?) under the Common Security and Defence Policy. Why the outcry about it now? It's hardly a new statement of intent. Whether an "EU army" will ever exist, I don't know. But EU military cooperation is not a recent development. 

[sm1]

Sadly the problem is this is far more then just EU military cooperation. This is what Jean Claude Junker, President of the Europen Commision, said when anouncing a European Army:

"Far too often national interests are brought to the fore.

"We shouldn't misunderstand this - European integration must not bow to the interests of the nation state.

The long term plan has always been to bypass nation states and put the European commision in charge of making the major decisions, thereby superceding national sovereignty. An example being the various European courts that can overturn British laws if they wish.

Brexit and other anti EU sentiment is just accelerating the process of forced intergration.

[Dr The Singh]

9 hours ago, sm1 said:

Sadly the problem is this is far more then just EU military cooperation. This is what Jean Claude Junker, President of the Europen Commision, said when anouncing a European Army:

"Far too often national interests are brought to the fore.

"We shouldn't misunderstand this - European integration must not bow to the interests of the nation state.

The long term plan has always been to bypass nation states and put the European commision in charge of making the major decisions, thereby superceding national sovereignty. An example being the various European courts that can overturn British laws if they wish.

Brexit and other anti EU sentiment is just accelerating the process of forced intergration.

This fooking shit, scares me to shit, I'm so glad we're out

[davieG]

Bratislava EU meeting: Merkel says bloc in 'critical situation'

4 hours ago

 

From the sectionEurope

Related Topics

Europe migrant crisis

Share

Jump media player

Media player help

Out of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.

Media captionCitizens from Ireland, Latvia, the UK, France, Lithuania, and Germany give the BBC their views on the future of the European Union

The European Union is in a "critical situation", the German chancellor has said, as leaders meet in Slovakia to discuss ways to regain trust after the UK's vote to leave the bloc.

Angela Merkel said they needed to show they could improve on security, defence co-operation and the economy.

But EU countries are deeply divided over how to bolster growth and respond to the influx of migrants.

Meeting in Bratislava without the UK, they will not discuss Brexit talks.

Eastern leaders offer new menu at EU crisis talks

What has the EU learnt since Brexit?

All you need to know about the UK leaving the EU

"We need solutions for Europe and we are in a critical situation," Mrs Merkel said as she arrived at the gathering.

"You can't solve all Europe's problems in one summit. What we have to do is show in our deeds we can do things better in the realms of security and fighting terrorism, and in the field of defence."

'Brutally honest'

Even though Britain's referendum result is not on the agenda, and British Prime Minister Theresa May is not attending the summit, there is little doubt that Brexit will overshadow the meeting.

French President Francois Hollande said: "Either we move in the direction of disintegration, of dilution, or we work together to inject new momentum, we relaunch the European project."

Heavy on symbolism, light on results: By Katya Adler, BBC Europe editor

Donald Tusk is hoping for a public show of unity among the 27 nations of the EU following Britain's vote to leave in June.

Mr Tusk wants to restore EU stability and credibility with the bloc in the face of a migrant crisis and issues with the euro currency. But European leaders are divided, their voters sceptical.

Central and Eastern Europe want powers back from Brussels. Northern nations view the south as a eurozone liability. Mediterranean countries balk at German austerity edicts.

So on Friday they will stick to subjects they agree on and those they feel are relevant to voters' concerns: migration, security and globalisation.

The hard stuff, such as a future trade deal with Britain and how to save the single currency, will be left for another day.

Katya Adler: The EU's Bratislava blues

Earlier, Donald Tusk, the European Council President, called on EU leaders to assure citizens they had learned lessons from Brexit and were able to "bring back stability and a sense of security".

He urged them to take a "sober and brutally honest" look at the bloc's problems.

Jump media player

Media player help

Out of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.

Media captionAll EU member states flags are flying in Bratislava apart from the Union Jack, as Ros Atkins reports

The EU response to the influx of migrants is one of the most contentious points among members.

The summit host, Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico, is one of a group of central and eastern European leaders who object to the EU quota system which distributes 160,000 refugees across the EU. The scheme, for refugees from Iraq, Syria and Eritrea, is aimed at easing the burden on Italy and Greece.

Mr Fico has said Slovakia will not accept "one single Muslim migrant" and has mounted a legal challenge to the scheme.

Image copyrightAP

Image captionSlovak Prime Minister Robert Fico (right, with Mr Tusk) has made it clear his country does not want to take a share of the migrants coming to Europe

On Tuesday, Luxembourg's Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn called for Hungary to be suspended or even expelled from the EU because of its "massive violation" of fundamental values, specifically the government's treatment of refugees.

For France, the priority is border security in the wake of a number of Islamic extremist attacks in the country.

Is Angela Merkel's political capital running out?

Hollande: France's democracy will beat barbarism

France and Germany have outlined plans to deepen European military co-operation, which were reinforced in the State of the Union address by European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker on Wednesday, in which he called for a European military headquarters.

The UK's departure from the EU removes one of the biggest obstacles to stronger EU defence in tandem with Nato.

Image copyrightAFP

Image captionAll eyes will be on Bratislava castle (pictured right), and the EU's ability to move forward with Britain left out

The one-day Bratislava meeting is set to be the first in a number of confidence-building meetings where a "roadmap" should be set up to culminate in a summit in March in the Italian capital Rome, when the 60th anniversary of the EU's founding Treaty of Rome will be celebrated.