Facecloth Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 1 minute ago, davieG said: I see no map, all I see is a bemused donkey that's been given control but doesn't know which way to go. I think it's got less control than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 12 minutes ago, davieG said: This is the problem the donkey's doing the driving and steering Ha Ha great picture by the way. I would suggest the donkey thinks it know's what it is doing but hasn't got a fcuking clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 4 minutes ago, Facecloth said: I think it's got less control than you think. Maybe but either way it doesn't know which way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 1 minute ago, davieG said: Maybe but either way it doesn't know which way to go. And neither right now do the people charged with ending our connection to the donkey. But then when have they ever? And if it's not truely controlling us, does it really matter if the donkey gets lost? We're not following it every step of the way like some would have everyone believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 25 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Problem being, that's what you want, but it's not necessarily what everyone who voted to get rid if the donkey wants. Some people hate the donkey, some people just think it's got a gammy leg that needs amputating, whilst others don't even know what the donkey is. Add that to the fact nearly half the country wanted to keep the donkey, but not even all of them completely loved the donkey. Some of them wanted the donkey to change, whilst others thought the donkey was great as it was. Essentially it was multi layered question with a simplified answer, and we're expecting people to make difficult decisions on how to best give the people what they want, and getting the best for the nation, without pissing large amounts of people off. But because they haven't got a clue what large amounts of these people actually want, whatever they do is likely to piss large amounts of people off. 17m people voted to be given a unicorn. Nobody asked what colour. Some wanted white, some blue, some green, and some red. We're going to get one of those colours and large numbers of those people won't get the unicorn they want and will be pissed off. Or we'll end up with a donkey with a strap on and they'll all be pissed off. 'The problem was' the animal rights activists all believed the 17.3 million people had made a terrible mistake and didn't really know what they were doing but 17.3 million people wanted rid of the donkey they didn't really care how it was dispatched as long as it was gone so they could decide what went in the field it used to occupy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 It was simple in the past the ruling classes and then the Tories looked after the rich, along came labour to look after the poor it was also simple but now everyone is trying to please the middle ground but that middle ground doesn't want the same things, there's no clear cut list of priorities that a majority agree on or want. Add into that in the past most people were kept in total ignorance of all things political but now there's so much superficial information around, mostly misleading that it's impossible to tell truth from fiction. Sorry i've gone all serious and ruining the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 Just now, The Guvnor said: 'The problem was' the animal rights activists all believed the 17.3 million people had made a terrible mistake and didn't really know what they were doing but 17.3 million people wanted rid of the donkey they didn't really care how it was dispatched as long as it was gone so they could decide what went in the field it used to occupy. Again that what you want. What make you think you speak for everyone who voted the same way? I don't think I can speak for everyone who voted to keep the donkey, so you can't do the same for the other side. Some people might want it to leave the field, but still give it access when need be. Other people are quite happy for it to stay in the field but just want the gate locked so it doesn't get too full. And we've left the government with this mess trying to solve it. They haven't even started, and people are already pissed off about what they're doing. People are even pissed off that they might want to chat about the best way to get rid. If people are angry now before they even know what's going to happen, how hard do you think it's going to be for the government to make them happy when they actually start the process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 2 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Again that what you want. What make you think you speak for everyone who voted the same way? I don't think I can speak for everyone who voted to keep the donkey, so you can't do the same for the other side. Some people might want it to leave the field, but still give it access when need be. Other people are quite happy for it to stay in the field but just want the gate locked so it doesn't get too full. And we've left the government with this mess trying to solve it. They haven't even started, and people are already pissed off about what they're doing. People are even pissed off that they might want to chat about the best way to get rid. If people are angry now before they even know what's going to happen, how hard do you think it's going to be for the government to make them happy when they actually start the process? The mess is of the governments own making they used used the carrot (referendum) to help get them elected but didn't think through the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 6 minutes ago, davieG said: The mess is of the governments own making they used used the carrot (referendum) to help get them elected but didn't think through the consequences. Very true. And they should have asked the question properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ithuriel Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 I'm bored and rambling so I just thought I'd type some crap to give peeps a read, for what it is worth Still get the impression this was a vote the establishment thought they would win so they could integrate even more closely to the European super state but which back fired on them massively. The wriggling out of this and getting what they want seems to be well in hand, as I have said before, it was clever of them to slowly change an economic common market into a European super state over a period of time with the people not really getting a vote or having a clear idea about what was happening. Countries are now member States, with mostly unified currencies, common laws etc., voted for in a parliament most know little about and which have THE power over countries, I mean States and they have a long term plan. Problem is that plan is starting to look a little ropy with the rise of far right parties and some of the states having sections of their public that are having thoughts about leaving too. Then you have Russia making threatening noises on the Eastern border of this superstate and the not so stable Turkey wanting in. What ever happens, I doubt what the majority want will happen as the elite have their own ideas and the only thing that will derail what is happening will be a revolution or a major war. Democracy is just an illusion given to the masses by crooks in suits but for the most part, it has always been this way, just that when times are good peeps care less than when times are hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 1 hour ago, Facecloth said: Very true. And they should have asked the question properly. Ass-ked the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ousefox Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2016/11/05/courts-democracy-and-brexit-some-home-truths/ - Cambridge professor Mark Elliot Worth a read for anyone moaning about lawyers or who read the papers that produced the most ridiculous front pages yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 1 hour ago, Facecloth said: Very true. And they should have asked the question properly. I think the course of events were crystal clear, Cameron assures referendum get's elected has to go ahead with referendum but not really concerned, either total arrogance or not being engaged with the electorate but just to reassure the electorate promises to take these fantastic new proposals to Brussels which will totally appease any voters who would want us to leave, in truth he was asking for very little, but oops those intransigent bunch weren't quite as obliging as I had wished, in fact they gave me the square root of fcuk all, big mistake, not to mind I will convince the electorate that it was a great result and we have achieved most of our objectives but there will be a great opportunity for further reform which is needed. The fact is you can't pull the wool over peoples eyes personally that was the point which made me vote to leave. As they were prepared to give us fcuk all knowing there was a referendum looming, how on earth could you expect the level of reform the vast majority of the UK wanted. Ironically now this may be the catalyst which does push change but Brussels is such a vast self consuming Bureaucratic machine we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 18 minutes ago, The Guvnor said: I think the course of events were crystal clear, Cameron assures referendum get's elected has to go ahead with referendum but not really concerned, either total arrogance or not being engaged with the electorate but just to reassure the electorate promises to take these fantastic new proposals to Brussels which will totally appease any voters who would want us to leave, in truth he was asking for very little, but oops those intransigent bunch weren't quite as obliging as I had wished, in fact they gave me the square root of fcuk all, big mistake, not to mind I will convince the electorate that it was a great result and we have achieved most of our objectives but there will be a great opportunity for further reform which is needed. The fact is you can't pull the wool over peoples eyes personally that was the point which made me vote to leave. As they were prepared to give us fcuk all knowing there was a referendum looming, how on earth could you expect the level of reform the vast majority of the UK wanted. Ironically now this may be the catalyst which does push change but Brussels is such a vast self consuming Bureaucratic machine we will see. Even an MP who campaigned for leave has quit because he doesn't like the type of leave it looks like we're getting. This is someone who publicly declared his stance and could have clarified with campaign leaders at anytime, and even he didn't know what he was campaigning for, so how could the country as collective know what it was voting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 6 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Even an MP who campaigned for leave has quit because he doesn't like the type of leave it looks like we're getting. This is someone who publicly declared his stance and could have clarified with campaign leaders at anytime, and even he didn't know what he was campaigning for, so how could the country as collective know what it was voting for? I respect your opinion but I think it's time to put the donkey to bed so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 2 hours ago, davieG said: Maybe but either way it doesn't know which way to go. Would you feel any more confident if you replaced the donkey with a mule in Victorian clothing that had no sense of direction, no understanding of motorcycle mechanics and no money to buy any petrol? #keepthemetaphoralive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 1 minute ago, The Guvnor said: I have no counter argument to your excellent point, but rather than admit defeat I'll just say I disagree and walk away. Fixed it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 It seems the only people claiming we didn't know what we were voting for, are remainers. I have heard not one leaver, claim to be disgruntled or bewildered. Not on here or out in the wider world, it's a myth, peddled by desperate, scheming remainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 Just now, Strokes said: It seems the only people claiming we didn't know what we were voting for, are remainers. I have heard not one leaver, claim to be disgruntled or bewildered. Not on here or out in the wider world, it's a myth, peddled by desperate, scheming remainers. You've not been listening properly then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 Just now, Facecloth said: You've not been listening properly then. I think you have been hearing what you want to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 1 minute ago, Strokes said: I think you have been hearing what you want to hear. Same could be said the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Would you feel any more confident if you replaced the donkey with a mule in Victorian clothing that had no sense of direction, no understanding of motorcycle mechanics and no money to buy any petrol? #keepthemetaphoralive Nothing would make me confident about any political solutions. Sadly we can't put them all in here as anarchy is not going to help either. I've no idea these days who's the best of the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 5 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Fixed it for you Oh dear, the MP in question so I read was a remainer he is moving away from politics to return to his previous profession and make 4 times more money and I suspect had planned this to put up two fingers not only to the gov't but to the leave voters, non story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 5 November 2016 Share Posted 5 November 2016 1 minute ago, The Guvnor said: Oh dear, the MP in question so I read was a remainer he is moving away from politics to return to his previous profession and make 4 times more money and I suspect had planned this to put up two fingers not only to the gov't but to the leave voters, none story. He was a leave campaigner. He quit due to 'irreconcilable differences' with the government over how they were dealing with Brexit as he didn't want to leave the single market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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