Buce Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 Poll suggests public will not accept being worse off after Brexit: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/10/poll-public-will-not-accept-brexit-worse-off-tim-farron-ukip-lib-dem-yougov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 6 minutes ago, Buce said: Poll suggests public will not accept being worse off after Brexit: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/10/poll-public-will-not-accept-brexit-worse-off-tim-farron-ukip-lib-dem-yougov If the polls were gospel we would never have voted to leave in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 30 minutes ago, Buce said: Poll suggests public will not accept being worse off after Brexit: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/10/poll-public-will-not-accept-brexit-worse-off-tim-farron-ukip-lib-dem-yougov After every political change there will be winners and losers I doubt there's ever been one anywhere where everyone was be better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzinderFox Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 1 hour ago, Buce said: Poll suggests public will not accept being worse off after Brexit: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/10/poll-public-will-not-accept-brexit-worse-off-tim-farron-ukip-lib-dem-yougov If you ask people the question 'would you be happy to be financially worse off after brexit' then what did the guardian think the answer would be?! I voted for brexit but I don't 'want' to lose money out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 1 hour ago, Strokes said: If the polls were gospel we would never have voted to leave in the first place. Indeed. Purely as a matter of interest, how much worse off are you prepared to accept being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 9 minutes ago, Buce said: Indeed. Purely as a matter of interest, how much worse off are you prepared to accept being? Are we talking financial terms? The thing is Buce no matter what happens I won't be worse off financially because of this, because I can always earn more. It's just that for the first time in years, I don't have to work 60+ hours a week to earn it. I really don't want to go back to that lifestyle but if given the choice of the two, I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barky Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 2 hours ago, GazzinderFox said: If you ask people the question 'would you be happy to be financially worse off after brexit' then what did the guardian think the answer would be?! I voted for brexit but I don't 'want' to lose money out of it. Can't find the poll itself to see how the questions were worded but from the guardian article it looks as though they asked about acceptance rather than happiness. If the majority of leave voters were unwilling to accept being financially worse off the obvious question is why did they vote for something that had a very good chance of doing just that? For me it highlights what we already know about how a lot of people on both sides didn't really know what they were voting for or really why and that shows how flawed referendums are as a way of making big decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 4 hours ago, Strokes said: Are we talking financial terms? The thing is Buce no matter what happens I won't be worse off financially because of this, because I can always earn more. It's just that for the first time in years, I don't have to work 60+ hours a week to earn it. I really don't want to go back to that lifestyle but if given the choice of the two, I would. I'm pleased for you, Strokes, but I doubt if many ordinary working men and women would be in the same fortunate position; that tends to make me think the poll is perhaps a truer reflection of public opinion than you would like it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 By the same token, how many remainers would still want to remain if it could be proven we'd all be better off leaving? There's massive youth unemployment across large parts of the EU, 23% general unemployment in Greece,19% in Spain. It's not like the EU is a massive economic success. We can all speculate whether we're going to be better or worse off in the future but we've made our choice and have to get on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 11 December 2016 Share Posted 11 December 2016 They 'will not accept it' What are they going to, tell the economy to go to its room until it's thought about what it's done and decides not to be in a decline? Tell the pound it can't have pudding unless it stops depreciating? Pointless populism. (Now where have we seen that before?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 12 December 2016 Share Posted 12 December 2016 Chancellor Philip Hammond has backed a transitional deal for Brexit saying it would be "helpful" to allow longer than two years for the UK's EU exit. Mr Hammond told the Treasury select committee that there was an "emerging view" that having longer would tend towards a "smoother transition" . There would be "less risks of disruption" including "risks to financial stability, he added. However, both business and government would have to make changes, he said. "I would not want anybody to think this is just about financial services," Mr Hammond told MPs. "For example, depending on what future customs arrangements are between the UK and European Union, there could be significant physical infrastructure changes that need to be made at ports of entry and exit, not only in the UK but on continental Europe as well," he added. He said there could also be a need to train large numbers of people in anticipation of a "much more intensive process at borders, so it's not just the business sector, it's also the government sector that has to think about how long it takes to make changes, hire people, train people, introduce IT changes and I think the further we go into this discussion, the more likely it is that we will mutually conclude that we need a longer period to deliver." Analysis: Kamal Ahmed, BBC business editor The government position is becoming clearer. By the end of the Article 50 timetable - which Number 10 believes will be March 2019 - the UK will have legally agreed to leave the EU. But it will not be like jumping off a cliff edge. Rather, Britain and the EU will still have a close relationship, with many EU rules remaining in place. They will slowly be unravelled over subsequent years as Brexit is made a reality. Read more from Kamal here Committee chairman Andrew Tyrie said it sounded like two years was the "bare minimum, we're probably going to need more time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted 13 December 2016 Share Posted 13 December 2016 Quote The Consumer Prices Index (CPI) rose by 1.2% in the year to November 2016, compared with a 0.9% rise in the year to October. Stagflation - the future. https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/consumerpriceinflation/nov2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 13 December 2016 Share Posted 13 December 2016 On 11/12/2016 at 15:49, Buce said: I'm pleased for you, Strokes, but I doubt if many ordinary working men and women would be in the same fortunate position; that tends to make me think the poll is perhaps a truer reflection of public opinion than you would like it to be. Hmm. To be honest, I don't trust polls, as they tend to be wrong, rather than right. This particular one only asks the question, if. It is doubless a propaganda exercise, used for the purpose of putting doubt in peoples minds. Another clever enough ploy, used by pro Europeans. If, is a very big word, and polls really count for nothing, and can be easily and deliberately misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted 14 December 2016 Share Posted 14 December 2016 Quote UK jobless rate remains at 4.8%, but employment total falls Breaking: Britain’s jobless rate remains at an 11-year low of 4.8% for the three months to October. That matches last month’s figures. But the number of people in work has dropped by 6,000 to 31.762m, the first fall since the second quarter of 2015. And the number of people claiming unemployment benefit has gone up again, by 2,400 in November, to 809,000. https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/dec/14/uk-unemployment-wages-pound-federal-reserve-interest-rates-business-live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 14 December 2016 Share Posted 14 December 2016 15 minutes ago, Steven said: https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/dec/14/uk-unemployment-wages-pound-federal-reserve-interest-rates-business-live Is there any way to get the wage % increase without the top 1% of earners? Mildly curious. Good news on unemployment though. There still seems to be an increase in the amount of people claiming jobseekers which seems strange to me. Can anyone explain how this happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 14 December 2016 Share Posted 14 December 2016 17 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Is there any way to get the wage % increase without the top 1% of earners? Mildly curious. Good news on unemployment though. There still seems to be an increase in the amount of people claiming jobseekers which seems strange to me. Can anyone explain how this happens? Further education drop outs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 14 December 2016 Share Posted 14 December 2016 Remainer's style guide: Good news = we haven't left yet.... Bad news = BREXIT EFFECT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 14 December 2016 Share Posted 14 December 2016 48 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: Remainer's style guide: Good news = we haven't left yet.... Bad news = BREXIT EFFECT!! And yet it could be said from the other side. Leaver's style guide: Good news = BREXIT EFFECT!! Bad news = we haven't left yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 December 2016 Share Posted 14 December 2016 Yep, it's exactly the same both sides, even I'm getting sick of it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 14 December 2016 Share Posted 14 December 2016 We need to learn to see things longer-term (and that applies to politicians themselves - and not just re. Brexit). As regards the short/medium-term effects of impending Brexit, I expect we'll have a slightly clearer idea in a year's time, possibly 6 months time, certainly 2 years time. As regards the long-term effects of actual Brexit, people will be writing theses about that in 10-20 years time, by when there may or may not be a recognised majority assessment - with a minority taking a different stance (as with climate change). With stuff like new trading agreements, it will take years before we know whether they'll be better or worse than what we have now. We can speculate (I'd speculate it will be worse; most Brexiteers would say the opposite) but we don't know. Then there are other factors that will have a big impact on the state of our economy - such as what happens with the Eurozone economy, Italian banks, interest rates, US policy under Trump, French/German elections etc. Things can have a temporary effect, too. Take inflation. That's probably one of the predictions that we can make most confidently for 2017: inflation will rise because of the fall in the pound and more expensive imports. But if the pound stabilises at a lower rate (a big IF), then inflation might fall again in 2018. That's quite likely if pay rates don't rise significantly to keep up with inflation. I reckon that's quite likely. So we might not have stagflation long-term, we might just have a further decline in real incomes and some combination of a downturn/recession and/or an increase in debt (probably private and public debt)....possibly with unemployment edging up or social unrest (whether directed against the Govt, the "liberal Remain establishment", foreigners or whoever). Personally, I find the economic, social and political outlook for this country - and for the EU - extremely worrying (and I'm neither a worrier nor a pessimist by nature). But I might be quite wrong. We might muddle through, after a bumpy ride. Everything might come up roses, as some Brexiteers think (or claim to think - I suspect most know that they're just "standing up for their side").... The one thing that is clear is that it's going to be a long journey. I assume Brexit will dominate the political agenda for at least 5-10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 December 2016 Share Posted 14 December 2016 13 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Personally, I find the economic, social and political outlook for this country - and for the EU - extremely worrying (and I'm neither a worrier nor a pessimist by nature). But I might be quite wrong. We might muddle through, after a bumpy ride. Everything might come up roses, as some Brexiteers think (or claim to think - I suspect most know that they're just "standing up for their side").... The one thing that is clear is that it's going to be a long journey. I assume Brexit will dominate the political agenda for at least 5-10 years. Possibly even longer, I don't even think it's over the top to say it could completely re-shape the political landscape long term. I can't find the article now but I read somewhere a few weeks ago that people now feel far more strongly about being loyal to their remain/leave vote than they do to a political party vote, Richmond Park probably backed that up. How it goes or what we end up with I have no idea, but I just get the feeling politics will never be the same again after this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnaldo Posted 15 December 2016 Share Posted 15 December 2016 Brexit trade deal could take 10 years, says Uk's ambassador: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38324146 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted 15 December 2016 Share Posted 15 December 2016 Newsflash: UK retail sales are still growing , despite the ongoing uncertainty around Brexit. https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/dec/15/fed-hike-dollar-bank-of-england-interest-rates-business-live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_phelan Posted 15 December 2016 Share Posted 15 December 2016 It seems that many are prepared to ruin the country for future generations as long as their xenophobia can be accommodated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 15 December 2016 Share Posted 15 December 2016 22 minutes ago, ed_phelan said: It seems that many are prepared to ruin the country for future generations as long as their xenophobia can be accommodated. Hi moose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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