Innovindil Posted 2 February 2017 Share Posted 2 February 2017 26 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Bollocks. The scots independence was shot down by three things: currency, financial viability and the promise of staying in the eu vs potentially not getting back in. Those who were anti-independence on the basis of the last one is definitely going to resent being dragged out. Probably true, but the same worries about them getting back in the EU that were around then are still the same now. If they leave the UK (they will, rightly, get a second referendum in the future) then they are cutting ties with their biggest trading partner, in the hope that the EU will have them in and fill the void. But they won't get the "special" arrangements the UK had and then they'll have to take on the euro and other such bull. The second referendum won't be anytime soon, probably not even while we're negotiation which could take years. How these negotiations go will decide whether they stay or go, any polls or opinions now are pretty irrelevant when weighed against what could happen in the future. I'd be sad if they left, but I sure as hell wouldn't miss hearing Nicola drone on about how no one is listening to Scotland as if they should have supreme power, even after being told by the court the decision was in the hands of the UK parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 2 February 2017 Share Posted 2 February 2017 2 hours ago, Webbo said: Show me a poll that puts independence in a winning position. Show me a poll from the last year or so that put any eventual election or referendum winner in a winning position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 2 February 2017 Share Posted 2 February 2017 28 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Show me a poll from the last year or so that put any eventual election or referendum winner in a winning position. Fair point, but if Sturgeon thought she had a chance she be organising a referendum now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 2 February 2017 Share Posted 2 February 2017 Meanwhile on QT a woman says she voted Leave because of the shape of bananas..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 38 minutes ago, Emilio Lestavez said: Meanwhile on QT a woman says she voted Leave because of the shape of bananas..... But remember there was no stupid Brexit voters and they all knew exactly what they were voting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 7 hours ago, Facecloth said: But remember there was no stupid Brexit voters and they all knew exactly what they were voting for. No one knew what they were voting for, leave or remain. The EU is too big, covering too many aspects for anyone but the likes of the civil servants who work on squaring new legislation with EU law to truly understand. I know about how the eu affects the STEM community, but ask me about the ins and outs of its relationship with the agricultural sector and you'd get a completely blank look. A fisherman would know how the quotas work, but is unlikely to have a solid grasp on its relationship with the financial markets. Add in to that years of euro myths like the bendy bananas and it's no wonder you had people voting leave so we could call Yorkshire puddings Yorkshire puddings or voting remain so we could still compete in Eurovision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 9 hours ago, Emilio Lestavez said: Meanwhile on QT a woman says she voted Leave because of the shape of bananas..... I stopped watching it about a year ago and it's improved my ability to sleep well on Thursday nights no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafox Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 10 hours ago, Emilio Lestavez said: Meanwhile on QT a woman says she voted Leave because of the shape of bananas..... She was a bit of an idiot but i think that was an attempt at a jocular lead-in to her point, which she never got to make because she was cut short after making a stupid remark about bananas, and that was, I think, tha she changed her mind from Remain to Leave because of the effect of some ridiculous edicts from Brussels that directly affect us in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafox Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 9 hours ago, Facecloth said: But remember there was no stupid Brexit voters and they all knew exactly what they were voting for. Obviously you didn't watch QT. She was a firm Remainer until she got to the voting booth and then had second thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 29 minutes ago, Parafox said: Obviously you didn't watch QT. She was a firm Remainer until she got to the voting booth and then had second thoughts. She voted leave though didn't she? So she's ill informed and put her X in the leave box, the fact she was contemplating voting remain upto that point is made irrelevant the moment she voted leave because of the shape of bananas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 58 minutes ago, Parafox said: She was a bit of an idiot but i think that was an attempt at a jocular lead-in to her point, which she never got to make because she was cut short after making a stupid remark about bananas, and that was, I think, tha she changed her mind from Remain to Leave because of the effect of some ridiculous edicts from Brussels that directly affect us in Britain. Or did she change her mind because of some nonsense written in a newspaper about them forcing things on us which with very minimal research she could have proved to be false? In short, she obviously didn't take her vote or the impact of it very seriously IMHO and she's not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 Not seen it yet but sounds like another stooge to me, I'll check it out later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 56 minutes ago, Strokes said: Not seen it yet but sounds like another stooge to me, I'll check it out later. Better to believe in a conspiracy than the fact there are idiots out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 3 February 2017 Share Posted 3 February 2017 2 hours ago, Emilio Lestavez said: Better to believe in a conspiracy than the fact there are idiots out there I wouldn't ever deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 Only an opinion blog, but rather well written. I know trade and immigration are the issues on everyone's lips but this does a good job of showing Brexit is about much more than just that. http://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/posts/2017/02/brexit-and-science-all-risk-and-no-benefit/ Do we really trust TPTB to sort it all the replacement deals necessary as made in the article in order to keep UK science working and collaborating well, when they're not under much pressure from the average voter to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 2 hours ago, leicsmac said: Only an opinion blog, but rather well written. I know trade and immigration are the issues on everyone's lips but this does a good job of showing Brexit is about much more than just that. http://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/posts/2017/02/brexit-and-science-all-risk-and-no-benefit/ Do we really trust TPTB to sort it all the replacement deals necessary as made in the article in order to keep UK science working and collaborating well, when they're not under much pressure from the average voter to do so? Twenty bilateral government level agreements on cooperation in science and technology have been put in place. The European Union, via the Research and Innovation Commissioner, has concluded bi-lateral science and technology (S & T) agreements with 20 individual nations: Algeria; Argentina; Australia; Brazil; Canada; Chile; China; Egypt; India; Japan; Jordan; Korea; Mexico; Morocco; New Zealand; Russia; South Africa; Tunisia; Ukraine; United States. Sign us up to be number 21. Doesn't seem so hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 6 hours ago, Innovindil said: Twenty bilateral government level agreements on cooperation in science and technology have been put in place. The European Union, via the Research and Innovation Commissioner, has concluded bi-lateral science and technology (S & T) agreements with 20 individual nations: Algeria; Argentina; Australia; Brazil; Canada; Chile; China; Egypt; India; Japan; Jordan; Korea; Mexico; Morocco; New Zealand; Russia; South Africa; Tunisia; Ukraine; United States. Sign us up to be number 21. Doesn't seem so hard? Later on, regarding those agreements: "However, on the issue of movement of human and other resources, many of the agreements state: “Each Party shall take all appropriate steps and use its best efforts, pursuant to the laws and regulations applicable in the territories of each Party, to facilitate entry to, sojourn and exit from its territory of persons, material, data and equipment related to or used in cooperative activities developed by the Parties under this Agreement”." Given the current attitude towards freedom of movement to the UK, this rather clashes with the terms of the agreement above yes? Also, that's just regarding the scientific collaboration agreement with the EU. Separate deals for collaboration with each country above (and more besides) would also have to be negotiated. Will this government consider that in any way a priority, given that the voice of the people and the media is focusing on different topics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 What's happened to Alf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 2 hours ago, leicsmac said: Later on, regarding those agreements: "However, on the issue of movement of human and other resources, many of the agreements state: “Each Party shall take all appropriate steps and use its best efforts, pursuant to the laws and regulations applicable in the territories of each Party, to facilitate entry to, sojourn and exit from its territory of persons, material, data and equipment related to or used in cooperative activities developed by the Parties under this Agreement”." Given the current attitude towards freedom of movement to the UK, this rather clashes with the terms of the agreement above yes? Also, that's just regarding the scientific collaboration agreement with the EU. Separate deals for collaboration with each country above (and more besides) would also have to be negotiated. Will this government consider that in any way a priority, given that the voice of the people and the media is focusing on different topics? Did you read it? It says "best efforts". It's a guideline, not a rule. Besides, exceptions can, and will, be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 21 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Did you read it? It says "best efforts". It's a guideline, not a rule. Besides, exceptions can, and will, be made. Fair enough. I'll believe it (and so change my view that Brexit is damaging to UK STEM work) when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 5 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said: What's happened to Alf? I think he got tired of his thoughtful comments constantly being responded to with smug, circular logic-reliant one-liners disguised as reasonable debate. Also one commenter in particular who shall go unnamed tipped him over the edge with his particular brand of 'reasonable debate' in one topic consisting of a series of somewhat disturbing anti-Muslim rhetoric iirc and their subsequent refusal to own up to it once Alf called them out by directly quoting the offending remarks. Obviously he's normally the board's epitome of a patient, reserved conversationalist regardless of how inane the comments he's responding to are but he did mention that he's been having difficulty with his personal life recently which made it harder to humour some of the silly behaviour on here what with the external pressure he's under so he's decided that it's not worth the extra hassle right now and called time on the forum for a bit. At least that's what I gathered, might be getting a couple of points wrong, only Alf or someone with access to the deleted thread this went down on can say for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 20 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: I think he got tired of his thoughtful comments constantly being responded to with smug, circular logic-reliant one-liners disguised as reasonable debate. Also one commenter in particular who shall go unnamed tipped him over the edge with his particular brand of 'reasonable debate' in one topic consisting of a series of somewhat disturbing anti-Muslim rhetoric iirc and their subsequent refusal to own up to it once Alf called them out by directly quoting the offending remarks. Obviously he's normally the board's epitome of a patient, reserved conversationalist regardless of how inane the comments he's responding to are but he did mention that he's been having difficulty with his personal life recently which made it harder to humour some of the silly behaviour on here what with the external pressure he's under so he's decided that it's not worth the extra hassle right now and called time on the forum for a bit. At least that's what I gathered, might be getting a couple of points wrong, only Alf or someone with access to the deleted thread this went down on can say for sure. TBH given what he had to deal with I'm amazed Alf remained as calm, collected and erudite as he did for as long as he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 Just now, leicsmac said: TBH given what he had to deal with I'm amazed Alf remained as calm, collected and erudite as he did for as long as he did. What? Somebody disagreed with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 Just now, Webbo said: What? Somebody disagreed with him? As Carl said above, when your factual, carefully and extensively written posts keep getting replied to with smug, circular-logic reliant one liners in bad faith disguised as rebuttal (and then completely deny facts even in the face of quoted evidence) then I can imagine after a while it's going to make you wonder why you bother. Which is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 10 February 2017 Share Posted 10 February 2017 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: As Carl said above, when your factual, carefully and extensively written posts keep getting replied to with smug, circular-logic reliant one liners in bad faith disguised as rebuttal (and then completely deny facts even in the face of quoted evidence) then I can imagine after a while it's going to make you wonder why you bother. Which is a shame. Which facts? Statistics can prove anything we know that. I read that thread and I honestly don't know what Alf was upset about. IIrc somebody said that the Canadian shooter was a terrorist and not a lone nutter,a matter of opinion rather than fact surely, there was a bit of discussion and Alf flew off the handle. I can only assume he was in a bad mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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