Webbo Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 22 minutes ago, Foxxed said: The EDL definitely do exist. I've seen a fair few marches in town centres. You didn't answer the first question though. Do you believe the increase in hate crime is real? Or propaganda? I believe it's an increase in reporting rather than an increase in crime. P.S Do the EDL operate in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: I believe it's an increase in reporting rather than an increase in crime. P.S Do the EDL operate in France? Why do you believe this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 Just now, Foxxed said: Why do you believe this? Because I haven't seen any increase in racism myself and you only have to see that arsehole Joshua Silva's report of a hate crime about a speech at the Tory conference to see what level is reported and the intelligence of those reporting is. Now, I've answered your question, answer mine. Are you Fif? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 9 minutes ago, Foxxed said: Why do you believe this? http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/the-real-hate-crime-scandal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Tony Blair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 4 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Tony Blair Tell me. Just read that load of tosh from our resident war mongering muppet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 15 hours ago, Webbo said: Is that you Fif? Do the EDL and BNP still exist? I've not heard anything about them for years. Mohammed Akram – Independent. Dr Zulfiqar Ali – Liberal Democrat. Jack Brereton – Conservative. Adam Colclough – Green Party. Godfrey Davies – Christian Peoples Alliance. Barbara Fielding – Independent. David Furness – British National Party. Paul Nuttall – Ukip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 1 hour ago, Finnegan said: Tony Blair Watch him scratch his head in bafflement as poll support for Brexit skyrockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Tony Blair calls for people to 'rise up' against Brexit 21 minutes ago Tony Blair is to announce his "mission" to persuade Britons to "rise up" and change their minds on Brexit. The former prime minister will say in a speech later that people voted in the referendum "without knowledge of the true terms of Brexit". He will say he wants to "build support for finding a way out from the present rush over the cliff's edge". But former Cabinet minister Iain Duncan Smith said Mr Blair's comments were arrogant and utterly undemocratic. Downing Street has said it is "absolutely committed" to seeing Brexit through. Prime Minister Theresa May wants to trigger formal Brexit talks by the end of March - a move which was backed in the House of Commons by MPs last week. 'Expose relentlessly' Mr Blair, who was UK prime minister between 1997 and 2007, will say in his speech to the pro-European campaign group Open Britain that those driving a withdrawal from the European Union "always wanted a hard Brexit". "Indeed even the term 'Hard Brexit' requires amendment. The policy is now 'Brexit at any cost'," he will say. "Our challenge is to expose, relentlessly, the actual cost. Image caption51.9% of UK voters backed leaving the EU in June "To show how this decision was based on imperfect knowledge, which will now become informed knowledge. "To calculate in 'easy to understand' ways how proceeding will cause real damage to the country and its citizens and to build support for finding a way out from the present rush over the cliff's edge." Mr Blair, who campaigned to Remain in the EU, will say he accepts the verdict of June's referendum, but would recommend looking again at Brexit when "we have a clear sense of where we're going". He will also say the debate is being driven by immigration "which I fully accept is a substantial issue". "Nonetheless, we have moved in a few months from a debate about what sort of Brexit, involving a balanced consideration of all the different possibilities; to the primacy of one consideration - namely controlling immigration from the EU - without any real discussion as to why, and when Brexit doesn't affect the immigration people most care about." 'Rallying call' Mr Blair has faced criticism in the past for his government's decision to allow people from Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic to work in Britain without restrictions, while most EU states imposed transitional controls to slow the rate of migration. BBC political correspondent Tom Bateman said the former prime minister's intervention on Friday is "quite an explicit rallying call" for those who campaigned on the Remain side, warning them that now is not the time to retreat but to "rise up in defence of what we believe". But he added that not everyone on the Remain side agrees with Mr Blair, with one former campaign boss arguing that they should be working for the best version of Brexit, rather than fighting against it. A government spokesman said the British people had expressed their view very clearly on 23 June, adding: "There will be no second referendum." Iain Duncan Smith, who was a prominent Leave campaigner, said Mr Blair's comments were arrogant, utterly undemocratic and showed that the political elite was completely out of touch with the British people. Brexit bill Supporters of leaving the EU argue it will free up the UK to trade better globally and give the government better control of immigration. Previously, Mr Blair has called for the views of the "16 million" people who had backed remaining in the EU not to be ignored. He has argued that there has to be a way, either "through Parliament, or an election, or possibly through another referendum, in which people express their view". Earlier this month, MPs overwhelmingly agreed to let the government begin the UK's departure from the EU by voting for the Brexit bill. The draft legislation was approved by 494 votes to 122, and will move to the House of Lords on Monday. But the Commons vote prompted splits in the Labour party, with shadow business secretary Clive Lewis quitting the front bench to vote against the bill. Despite calls by leader Jeremy Corbyn for his party to back the government, 52 MPs rebelled. Lib Dem attempts to amend the bill to include a provision for another referendum were defeated by 340 votes to 33. The government has promised to invoke Article 50 - setting formal talks with the EU in motion - by the end of next month, but it requires Parliament's permission before doing so. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 I suppose as long as he is spending his own money, and wasting his own time then he can say and do what he likes. Again though, smug twats telling the people they don't know what they voted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 32 minutes ago, davieG said: Mohammed Akram – Independent. Dr Zulfiqar Ali – Liberal Democrat. Jack Brereton – Conservative. Adam Colclough – Green Party. Godfrey Davies – Christian Peoples Alliance. Barbara Fielding – Independent. David Furness – British National Party. Paul Nuttall – Ukip. Well there we are, Stoke voted 60% for brexit so we can expect a clear win for the BNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacamion Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 I agree completely with what Blair is saying but he is one of the most unpopular politians of recent times and so Brexiteers will be delighted he's piped up. Listening to him glottal stop his Ts, and give it the hand gestures, it's all coming back and it's enough to make you shudder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 52 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: I suppose as long as he is spending his own money, and wasting his own time then he can say and do what he likes. Again though, smug twats telling the people they don't know what they voted for. He's a smug twat. But I don't disagree with his assertion that the debate has been narrowly focused on a couple of issues without enough honest discussion on how Brexit will or won't affect them. As for IDS describing him as being 'out of touch with the British people', please excuse me while I stifle a laugh. 9 minutes ago, Vacamion said: Listening to him glottal stop his Ts, and give it the hand gestures, it's all coming back and it's enough to make you shudder... Listen, Vac, c'mon, he's just, you know, trying to put the record straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 I've got no problem with the type of brexit being debated, I have my view but it is a fair debate to be had. But as soon as the argument that they don't what they voted for is presented, the debate is finished. It's insulting and it kind of says, you don't really know what you are campaigning against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 1 hour ago, Strokes said: I've got no problem with the type of brexit being debated, I have my view but it is a fair debate to be had. But as soon as the argument that they don't what they voted for is presented, the debate is finished. It's insulting and it kind of says, you don't really know what you are campaigning against. That argument is going to be associated much more with the out side. Remain were voting for status quo, brexit represented change and the 'unknown' and I don't see what's insulting about pointing that out. Brexiters themselves played on this in the run up to the referendum... 'we don't know exactly what'll happen but at least we'll have our sovereignty'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Blimey! Doom and gloom at LCFC, climate change deniers, Nuttall's nutty fabrications and now Tony Blair sharing his much-sought opinions on Brexit.... I'm so glad that I'm not posting on Foxes Talk these days. Sing along now, lads and lasses... "There's a brook nearby, the grass grows high, where we can both lie side by side. In the countryside we take a ride. Back of your old car, we might get far. Sing a summer song and skip along. Hooray! Hooray! It's a holi-holiday!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 44 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Blimey! Doom and gloom at LCFC, climate change deniers, Nuttall's nutty fabrications and now Tony Blair sharing his much-sought opinions on Brexit.... I'm so glad that I'm not posting on Foxes Talk these days. Sing along now, lads and lasses... "There's a brook nearby, the grass grows high, where we can both lie side by side. In the countryside we take a ride. Back of your old car, we might get far. Sing a summer song and skip along. Hooray! Hooray! It's a holi-holiday!" Traitorous scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 6 hours ago, davieG said: Tony Blair calls for people to 'rise up' against Brexit 21 minutes ago Tony Blair is to announce his "mission" to persuade Britons to "rise up" and change their minds on Brexit. The former prime minister will say in a speech later that people voted in the referendum "without knowledge of the true terms of Brexit". He will say he wants to "build support for finding a way out from the present rush over the cliff's edge". But former Cabinet minister Iain Duncan Smith said Mr Blair's comments were arrogant and utterly undemocratic. Downing Street has said it is "absolutely committed" to seeing Brexit through. Prime Minister Theresa May wants to trigger formal Brexit talks by the end of March - a move which was backed in the House of Commons by MPs last week. 'Expose relentlessly' Mr Blair, who was UK prime minister between 1997 and 2007, will say in his speech to the pro-European campaign group Open Britain that those driving a withdrawal from the European Union "always wanted a hard Brexit". "Indeed even the term 'Hard Brexit' requires amendment. The policy is now 'Brexit at any cost'," he will say. "Our challenge is to expose, relentlessly, the actual cost. Image caption51.9% of UK voters backed leaving the EU in June "To show how this decision was based on imperfect knowledge, which will now become informed knowledge. "To calculate in 'easy to understand' ways how proceeding will cause real damage to the country and its citizens and to build support for finding a way out from the present rush over the cliff's edge." Mr Blair, who campaigned to Remain in the EU, will say he accepts the verdict of June's referendum, but would recommend looking again at Brexit when "we have a clear sense of where we're going". He will also say the debate is being driven by immigration "which I fully accept is a substantial issue". "Nonetheless, we have moved in a few months from a debate about what sort of Brexit, involving a balanced consideration of all the different possibilities; to the primacy of one consideration - namely controlling immigration from the EU - without any real discussion as to why, and when Brexit doesn't affect the immigration people most care about." 'Rallying call' Mr Blair has faced criticism in the past for his government's decision to allow people from Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic to work in Britain without restrictions, while most EU states imposed transitional controls to slow the rate of migration. BBC political correspondent Tom Bateman said the former prime minister's intervention on Friday is "quite an explicit rallying call" for those who campaigned on the Remain side, warning them that now is not the time to retreat but to "rise up in defence of what we believe". But he added that not everyone on the Remain side agrees with Mr Blair, with one former campaign boss arguing that they should be working for the best version of Brexit, rather than fighting against it. A government spokesman said the British people had expressed their view very clearly on 23 June, adding: "There will be no second referendum." Iain Duncan Smith, who was a prominent Leave campaigner, said Mr Blair's comments were arrogant, utterly undemocratic and showed that the political elite was completely out of touch with the British people. Brexit bill Supporters of leaving the EU argue it will free up the UK to trade better globally and give the government better control of immigration. Previously, Mr Blair has called for the views of the "16 million" people who had backed remaining in the EU not to be ignored. He has argued that there has to be a way, either "through Parliament, or an election, or possibly through another referendum, in which people express their view". Earlier this month, MPs overwhelmingly agreed to let the government begin the UK's departure from the EU by voting for the Brexit bill. The draft legislation was approved by 494 votes to 122, and will move to the House of Lords on Monday. But the Commons vote prompted splits in the Labour party, with shadow business secretary Clive Lewis quitting the front bench to vote against the bill. Despite calls by leader Jeremy Corbyn for his party to back the government, 52 MPs rebelled. Lib Dem attempts to amend the bill to include a provision for another referendum were defeated by 340 votes to 33. The government has promised to invoke Article 50 - setting formal talks with the EU in motion - by the end of next month, but it requires Parliament's permission before doing so. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news Blair pretending to speak for me and others like me. He's the last person on Earth I'd want saying a single word on my behalf. And if I called for a "rising up"! I'd probably be arrested for inciting revolution. As I've said once previously on here. It's not impossible for Brexit to trigger civil war and I wouldn't be surprised if there are some in the background prepared to fan the flames. The irony is that, but for Blair's warmongering and blatant deceptions on immigration, none of this would have happened either here or in the rest of Europe. Yet still he believes he's believes he's some sort of political messiah and still there are some who'd follow him - and not just recent generation incomers. Blair, Juncker and the BBC - what a self-serving alliance. 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Realist Guy In The Room Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Blair isnt wrong. If politicians especially really believe that this is the wrong thing to be doing, they shouldnt just be blindly agreeing. This 'will of the people' phrase is basically a safety net they're all using. If it's a disaster, they were just following 'the will of the people'. If Brexit works out well, the same applies. I find it dreadful that so many MP's are happy to go against what they believe in for no reason other than the referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 6 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: Blair isnt wrong. If politicians especially really believe that this is the wrong thing to be doing, they shouldnt just be blindly agreeing. This 'will of the people' phrase is basically a safety net they're all using. If it's a disaster, they were just following 'the will of the people'. If Brexit works out well, the same applies. I find it dreadful that so many MP's are happy to go against what they believe in for no reason other than the referendum. Blair's never been interested in the "will of the people", just what he wants and has wanted. Like the Iraq war and open-gate immigration. And now he wants to hold hands with Juncker because he doesn't want us out of the EU and would probably have loved to have been President. Wasn't he also Middle East Peace Envoy or some such title? How ironical could you get. Yes, let's hear it for "Grin and Blair It". How could he possibly be wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 13 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: Blair isnt wrong. He's always wrong .... and never tells the truth ... cus he's the anti-christ and the son of satan .... they always lie. You never seen films like The Exorcist or The Omen ?? ... devils never speak the truth. I'm still waiting for someone to throw some Holy Water over the evil b@stard then you'll all know !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Boris Johnson launches scathing attack on Tony Blair over Brexit rallying cry JOE MURPHY The Evening Standard Boris Johnson tore into Tony Blair for showing “contempt” to voters today after the former Labour premier launched a new campaign to halt Brexit. Leading a counter-attack, the Foreign Secretary mocked: “I call on the British people to rise up and turn off the TV when Tony Blair next appears with his condescending campaign.” He attacked Mr Blair as “spectacularly wrong” on the Iraq war and the European single currency in the past, adding: “Now he has the bare-faced effrontery to tell the British people that they were wrong last June. “He is showing a contempt for the intelligence of the electorate.” The Boris blast came minutes after Mr Blair said Brexit could and should be stopped. In a scathing speech delivered in the City of London, he condemned Theresa May’s Cabinet for being hijacked by Brexiteers and ignoring the perils of “Brexit at all costs”. He said the Government are “not driving this bus...they’re being driven.” Boris Johnson: The Foreign Secretary launched a scathing attack on Mr Blair (PA) Mr Blair said Mrs May would trigger Article 50 next month not because she believed in it “but because the politics of not doing so would alienate those driving the bus”. The ex-PM, blamed by many critics for failing to anticipate the surge of migrants from countries like Poland, agreed that immigration was the issue behind last June’s referendum result. But he said quitting the EU would barely affect the actual figures. He dripped sarcasm as he attacked “surreal” U-turns by Mrs May and said: “The PM says she wants Britain to be a great open trading nation. Our first step in this endeavour? To leave the largest free trading bloc in the world.” Controversially, he claimed the referendum result should be ignored because of growing evidence that the costs of leaving were greater than they had seemed. “Frankly, I would question whether the referendum really provides a mandate for Brexit at any cost,” he said. “If we were in a rational world, we would all the time be asking: Why are we doing this? And, as we know more of the costs, is the pain worth the gain?” He said a “cartel of media on the right” was pushing Mrs May to the exit, helped by Labour’s “debilitation” under Jeremy Corbyn. Answering questions, Mr Blair said he expected “a volley of abuse” for speaking out, but added: “You don’t have to like the messenger. This is a free country.” Asked when he had last talked to Brexit voters he conceded: “It’s true I don’t spend a lot of time on the doorstep ...all I’m saying is, this is the beginning of the debate. This is the biggest decision since the Second World War. Debate cannot be shut down.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrifox Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Tony B. Liar. The only opinion that matters is his - wanted to be seen as a statesman and needed to get involved in a totally unnecessary war to secure his legacy . The most cynical politician of his generation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 18 February 2017 Share Posted 18 February 2017 On 16/02/2017 at 23:44, Webbo said: Because I haven't seen any increase in racism myself and you only have to see that arsehole Joshua Silva's report of a hate crime about a speech at the Tory conference to see what level is reported and the intelligence of those reporting is. Now, I've answered your question, answer mine. Are you Fif? I, too, have seen no increase in hate crime. I've also never been a victim of Islamophobia. However, the Home Office does issue a report hate crime. Here's a PDF of their findings. It reports the massive spike in hate crime after the referendum, and the sustained increase. Here's Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, the Metropolitan police commissioner: Quote “We saw this horrible spike after Brexit,” “The absolute numbers are low, but we think it is massively under-reported [crime]. Sadly, people don’t tell us about the harassment and the abuse that we know will go on out there.” Do you believe the Metropolitan police commissioner and the home office are incorrect in their findings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 18 February 2017 Share Posted 18 February 2017 9 minutes ago, Foxxed said: I, too, have seen no increase in hate crime. I've also never been a victim of Islamophobia. However, the Home Office does issue a report hate crime. Here's a PDF of their findings. It reports the massive spike in hate crime after the referendum, and the sustained increase. Here's Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, the Metropolitan police commissioner: Do you believe the Metropolitan police commissioner and the home office are incorrect in their findings? On 16/02/2017 at 23:50, Strokes said: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/the-real-hate-crime-scandal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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