Brexit Discussion Thread.

[Guest]

Just now, Voll Blau said:

The whole "BBC bias" chip some people have on their shoulder really gets on my tits.

 

Anyone ever thought the fact that it's an accusation that's made by both right and left *might* just be an indication that they're doing their jobs properly?

There's no point telling this to Thracian though. He's convinced that Stalin is running the place 

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, Innovindil said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39335904

 

Nice to see a fair few MP's viewing the BBC's coverage as a bit dodgy. 

60 Tory, 8 DUP and 1 UKIP MPs along with a token couple of Labour ones think the Beeb isn't toeing the party line.

 

Not really much to see here.

 

2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

The whole "BBC bias" chip some people have on their shoulder really gets on my tits.

 

Anyone ever thought the fact that it's an accusation that's made by both right and left *might* just be an indication that they're doing their jobs properly?

It's been said before and it'll be said again, but as the poster above said some people are beyond convincing.

[Thracian]

21 hours ago, leicsmac said:

60 Tory, 8 DUP and 1 UKIP MPs along with a token couple of Labour ones think the Beeb isn't toeing the party line.

 

Not really much to see here.

 

It's been said before and it'll be said again, but as the poster above said some people are beyond convincing.

I don't need a breakdown of representatives. BBC bias is pronounced and indefensible. And doubtless partly to do with the funding they've received from the EU but not entirely. There are other factors too, All, or almost all, their staff are graduates - and universities tend towards enforced ideas and idealism of all sorts and what I'd consider the eccentricities of college thinking...much of which gets discarded with the benefit of experience.       

[DJ Barry Hammond]

27 minutes ago, Thracian said:

I don't need a breakdown of representatives. BBC bias is pronounced and indefensible. And doubtless partly to do with the funding they've received from the EU but not entirely. There are other factors too, All, or almost all, their staff are graduates - and universities tend towards enforced ideas and idealism of all sorts and what I'd consider the eccentricities of college thinking...much of which gets discarded with the benefit of experience.       

 

These comments probably go to show you're against the impression you've built of the organisation - because you feel it's stacked full of people who you don't identify with. This surely means you're conclusions are by no way impartial and are more about confirming a pre-existing position?

[Thracian]

10 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

These comments probably go to show you're against the impression you've built of the organisation - because you feel it's stacked full of people who you don't identify with. This surely means you're conclusions are by no way impartial and are more about confirming a pre-existing position?

I identify with lots of university graduates with various grandsons and other family members currently at uni and many more contacts I speak to regularly.

Also, having been a journalist myself for 25 years - including lots of freelance work for the BBC - I've been as close to the people I'm talking about as any.

Of the family students I've mentioned, every one is a Remainer but, even if I'd got another impression, it wouldn't matter in respect of BBC bias because their support for "Remain" is incontestible and their determination to represent that stance so easy to recognise. It doesn't surprise me that some would choose not to believe me.

The BBC is not only supported by considerable amounts of EU money at times but has all sorts of agendas it promotes when possible and in all sorts of ways. The question is not whether these agendas are right or justified but the notion of the BBC being biased.

The first part of that sentence is endlessly debateable, the second part quite beyond doubt and even by admissions from inside the organisation at times.  

      

[The Doctor]

If the BBC are so vehemently remain and biased against brexit then why didn't they call out the constant lying  (Turkey, 350m etc.) from the leave campaign during the campaigning?

[Jon the Hat]

I am still at a loss as to where this cliff is we are currently running off.  There is just no way we wont get a trade deal with the EU in the medium term, and even if we use WTO trade terms in the short term that wont harm our economy anything like as much as the inevitable collapse of the Eurozone will.

[Innovindil]

17 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

If the BBC are so vehemently remain and biased against brexit then why didn't they call out the constant lying  (Turkey, 350m etc.) from the leave campaign during the campaigning?

Because, like most, they expected remain to win easily? 

 

Why declare your side if you believe it will win without you? Better to keep your cloak of "impartiality" intact. 

[Jon the Hat]

19 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

If the BBC are so vehemently remain and biased against brexit then why didn't they call out the constant lying  (Turkey, 350m etc.) from the leave campaign during the campaigning?

I guess they read the long article in the trump thread about how arguing against the £350 million just made it stick in people's heads more.  Ultimately no one cares if it is £350M gross or £250M net, the fact it is this is a huge amount of money, and arguing around the number just reinforced that.

[Buce]

 

Low cost airlines to move to Europe after Brexit:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/22/uk-based-airlines-told-to-move-to-europe-after-brexit-or-lose-major-routes

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Low cost airlines to move to Europe after Brexit:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/22/uk-based-airlines-told-to-move-to-europe-after-brexit-or-lose-major-routes

A boost for Skegness economy?

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

A boost for Skegness economy?

 

Spoken like someone who hasn't been to Skeggy..

[Strokes]

Just now, Buce said:

 

Spoken like someone who hasn't been to Skeggy..

I'm a Hunstanton kind of guy, I'm sure it's lovely. I will be going this year funnily enough, may bank holiday I'm biking there for charity.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I'm a Hunstanton kind of guy, I'm sure it's lovely. I will be going this year funnily enough, may bank holiday I'm biking there for charity.

 

Good man.

 

Which one?

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Good man.

 

Which one?

Pray for danger, I'll put the details on here nearer the time. ATM I'm concentrating on running the London marathon for Loros  

[Innovindil]

14 minutes ago, Strokes said:

A boost for Skegness economy?

Scarborough 

 

Went there last year with the extended family, travelling out of England a royal pain in the ass with 2 young kids, had a great time. 

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Pray for danger, I'll put the details on here nearer the time. ATM I'm concentrating on running the London marathon for Loros  

 

Good luck with that, mate.

[davieG]

From the BBC, of course this in itself may be biased.

 

We get lots of comments on the @BBCRealityCheck feed about the BBC being funded by the European Union, so here are the facts.

BBC public service news programmes are not allowed to take any external funding, including from the EU.

World Service is also now funded by the licence fee, although the UK government has agreed to pay for some new services.

There are three areas that do not influence BBC editorial policy that benefit from EU money

BBC Media Action

BBC Media Action is independent from the BBC - it is an international development charity set up by the BBC. In 2014-15 it received 5% of its funding from the EU, which was £2.3m.

Its biggest donor was the UK's Department for International Development.

Research and Development

The BBC applies for grants to help fund its research into broadcasting technology that has contributed to developments such as Freeview and DAB digital radio.

Last year it received a grant of €607,953 (£472,197).

Independent Production Companies

Some production companies (not in-house ones) apply for grants that may be part-funded by the EU, which provide incentives to make programmes in particular regions of the UK.

This is particularly the case for drama productions - news, current affairs and factual programmes do not use such incentives.

In 2014-15, less than 2% of independently-produced programmes on the BBC used such incentives, which accounted for an average of 6% of their programme budgets.

This post was previously published on the Reality Check live page on 11 March 2016.

 

....and from the Guardian

 

QuoteBy Patrick Foster, Media Correspondent11:36PM GMT 18 Dec 2015

 

 

The BBC has admitted taking more than £2 million in European Union funding over the past three years, in a move that critics said called into doubt the corporation’s impartiality over the forthcoming European referendum.

The broadcaster said it had taken the cash under the European Union framework programme, to fund its research and development arm, which is working on projects such as 3D broadcasting, and ultra-high definition filming.

The BBC is not allowed to spend the money on programme-making or newsgathering, and corporation sources insisted that the grants helped the entire broadcasting sector develop new technology, and had no impact on editorial decisions.

 

 

[Buce]

4 hours ago, davieG said:

From the BBC, of course this in itself may be biased.

 

We get lots of comments on the @BBCRealityCheck feed about the BBC being funded by the European Union, so here are the facts.

BBC public service news programmes are not allowed to take any external funding, including from the EU.

World Service is also now funded by the licence fee, although the UK government has agreed to pay for some new services.

There are three areas that do not influence BBC editorial policy that benefit from EU money

BBC Media Action

BBC Media Action is independent from the BBC - it is an international development charity set up by the BBC. In 2014-15 it received 5% of its funding from the EU, which was £2.3m.

Its biggest donor was the UK's Department for International Development.

Research and Development

The BBC applies for grants to help fund its research into broadcasting technology that has contributed to developments such as Freeview and DAB digital radio.

Last year it received a grant of €607,953 (£472,197).

Independent Production Companies

Some production companies (not in-house ones) apply for grants that may be part-funded by the EU, which provide incentives to make programmes in particular regions of the UK.

This is particularly the case for drama productions - news, current affairs and factual programmes do not use such incentives.

In 2014-15, less than 2% of independently-produced programmes on the BBC used such incentives, which accounted for an average of 6% of their programme budgets.

This post was previously published on the Reality Check live page on 11 March 2016.

 

....and from the Guardian

 

 

 

Damn you with your inconvenient facts..

[Thracian]

Just key in EU grants to the BBC or similar. These are just random examples.  

 

https://heatst.com/world/bbc-has-secured-2-7-million-in-secret-eu-funds-since-2014/

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2975005/Brussels-cash-BBC-film-disaster-EU-breaking-Money-used-translate-mock-documentary-shown-member-states.html

 

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/bbc-bosses-insist-funding-eu-does-not-compromise-impartiality/

 

The beneficial link with the EU seems clear - and the BBC support for the EU the more you read.   

 

[foxinexile]

53 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Just key in EU grants to the BBC or similar. These are just random examples.  

 

https://heatst.com/world/bbc-has-secured-2-7-million-in-secret-eu-funds-since-2014/

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2975005/Brussels-cash-BBC-film-disaster-EU-breaking-Money-used-translate-mock-documentary-shown-member-states.html

 

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/bbc-bosses-insist-funding-eu-does-not-compromise-impartiality/

 

The beneficial link with the EU seems clear - and the BBC support for the EU the more you read.   

 

They may be random examples but considering that at least two of them are pro-Brexit (Daily Mail and Heat Street) I think it shows how subjective journalism can be and that the reader will tend to impose assumptions in line with their own political leanings (just my opinion, no links to provide proof of this I'm afraid!). You probably see the Mail article as proof of the BBC's cosy little relationship with the EU; I see it as a piece of gutter journalism from a paranoid rag that probably thinks Revelation 13:18 was a direct reference to the Beeb itself!

You say these are random examples ... but I'm sure I could pull out examples that demonstrate anti-EU sentiment (in my eyes). As with everything, it's not perfect, but if the worst that can be aimed at the BBC is that it's pro-EU (allegedly), I think that demonstrates how fortunate we are to have it.

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Thracian said:

Just key in EU grants to the BBC or similar. These are just random examples.  

 

https://heatst.com/world/bbc-has-secured-2-7-million-in-secret-eu-funds-since-2014/

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2975005/Brussels-cash-BBC-film-disaster-EU-breaking-Money-used-translate-mock-documentary-shown-member-states.html

 

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/bbc-bosses-insist-funding-eu-does-not-compromise-impartiality/

 

The beneficial link with the EU seems clear - and the BBC support for the EU the more you read.   

 

False attribution fallacy, Thrac. Try again and use better sources, please.

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

False attribution fallacy, Thrac. Try again and use better sources, please.

 

Please explain by all means. 

[leicsmac]

15 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

Please explain by all means. 

Sorry. I think that the sources you are using for your accusation are unreliable, so better ones are needed for it to stand.

[Thracian]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Sorry. I think that the sources you are using for your accusation are unreliable, so better ones are needed for it to stand.

That's repetition of what you said before not an explanation as to why the sources you mention are unreliable.

It seems to me that the BBC's situation does represent a vested interest in keeping the EU sweet whether the recipient is independent or not.

If it a benefitting company is owned by the BBC, it's is surely in the donor's debt morally, if not financially in that the debt doesn't have to be physically repaid.

Demonstrably, a company owned by the BBC, havs benefitted and that, to my mind, raises questions about their ability to be genuinely independent. If someone gave significant funds to an organisation you owned I strongly doubt you'd be doing anything to upset them in the forseeable future but if I'm wrong please point out why?.