Brexit Discussion Thread.

[Thracian]

Woke up this morning to find I am a xenophobic racist.

 

 

Strangely, it seems to have developed into a big club lately. 

[Grewks]

Disaster for the country. The EU isn't perfect but it's benefits of free movement and trade are really something we should not be missing out on.

I really feel let down by the electorate; the leave side won largely because of a large percentage of over-60's voting leave due to what I suspect to be outdated views on immigration. These people will not be around for much longer, while the younger generation who this decision impacts the most voted almost 70-30 for remain.

Cameron wasn't perfect, but he did his best to reduce the financial burden on future generations and was a stable leader. With the prospect of Johnson, or even worse Gove replacing him, it's a dark day for Britain in my view.

 

 

No! no! no! no! no! (Thatcher).

 

 

Free movement is not a benefit for our nation.

 

Compared to other E.U. nations we have....

 

- Above average Economy

- Above average Living conditions

- Above average healthcare

- Above average wages

 

 

These immigration views are not outdated, if anything they are very very modern and due to current circumstances.

[rmahrez]

If the young felt so strongly, is there any reason most of them didn't turn up to vote? The polls suggesting the poorest turnout of any age group. Don't blame the old for voting, blame the young for not.

 

I didn't vote as a young person, but that's because I'm below the voting age, another matter altogether. I would have voted if I was allowed, but I guess that doesn't apply to a lot of others.

 

The fact remains however that those affected most by this vote are strongly in favour of remain.

[Thracian]

Disaster for the country. The EU isn't perfect but it's benefits of free movement and trade are really something we should not be missing out on.

I really feel let down by the electorate; the leave side won largely because of a large percentage of over-60's voting leave due to what I suspect to be outdated views on immigration. These people will not be around for much longer, while the younger generation who this decision impacts the most voted almost 70-30 for remain.

Cameron wasn't perfect, but he did his best to reduce the financial burden on future generations and was a stable leader. With the prospect of Johnson, or even worse Gove replacing him, it's a dark day for Britain in my view.

 

 

That's your view but millions who'd called for moderation, fairness and a listening ear finally ran out of patience and disagreed.  

[Grewks]

I would also like to add a comment about Labour voters, and their disinterest of the labour party as a whole.

 

 

 

The Labour party is no longer, and has never have been, the 'working mans party'.

 

 

Generations of my family have always been self-employed, and have always voted Tory because, quite simply, Labour's approach to offer benefits to those not working is ridiculous. It appears these mainly northern and working class individuals are finally waking up.

[Voll Blau]

 

 

Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

 

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

[Babylon]

The fact remains however that those affected most by this vote are strongly in favour of remain.

Unfortunately your peers don't seem to have taken as much interest. It's no good being in favour of something if they don't get off their arse to vote.

[rmahrez]

No! no! no! no! no! (Thatcher).

 

 

Free movement is not a benefit for our nation.

 

Compared to other E.U. nations we have....

 

- Above average Economy

- Above average Living conditions

- Above average healthcare

- Above average wages

 

 

These immigration views are not outdated, if anything they are very very modern and due to current circumstances.

 

You may not think that, but I plan to travel abroad in Europe in the coming years and possibly even live in Europe. That will now be much harder due to Brexit. Therefore for me and many others the freedom of movement is a good thing, even if others see it as a negative due to immigration draining our resources. For the record, I believe immigration is a good thing however. Immigrants contribute greatly to our economy and a diverse society is a positive rather than a negative.

[Grewks]

I didn't vote as a young person, but that's because I'm below the voting age, another matter altogether. I would have voted if I was allowed, but I guess that doesn't apply to a lot of others.

 

The fact remains however that those affected most by this vote are strongly in favour of remain.

 

 

 

Remember this....the generation which have voted out have experienced the whole process of British integration into the E.U. From the initial 'enter referendum' to the current 'exit referendum'.

 

These people clearly believe the promises they were given to join the E.U have not been met.

[Darkon84]

Disaster for the country. The EU isn't perfect but it's benefits of free movement and trade are really something we should not be missing out on.

I really feel let down by the electorate; the leave side won largely because of a large percentage of over-60's voting leave due to what I suspect to be outdated views on immigration. These people will not be around for much longer, while the younger generation who this decision impacts the most voted almost 70-30 for remain.

Cameron wasn't perfect, but he did his best to reduce the financial burden on future generations and was a stable leader. With the prospect of Johnson, or even worse Gove replacing him, it's a dark day for Britain in my view.

 

Or perhaps the older electorate have the benefit of seeing the UK before and during the reign of the EU and might possibly have a more rounded view?

[Grewks]

You may not think that, but I plan to travel abroad in Europe in the coming years and possibly even live in Europe. That will now be much harder due to Brexit. Therefore for me and many others the freedom of movement is a good thing, even if others see it as a negative due to immigration draining our resources. For the record, I believe immigration is a good thing however. Immigrants contribute greatly to our economy and a diverse society is a positive rather than a negative.

 

 

See this is where people like you, who appear to have fallen into traps set by the elite during this voting process.

 

 

Immigration is a great positive for a nation like ourselves......but leaving the E.U actually allows us to access immigration more easily.

[Countryfox]

If your idea of seeing the light is f@cking the economy, isolating us from Europe and workers rights being ripped up?

I am annoyed, but, I will get over it. However, I will remain annoyed for some time about the opportunity we passed up to build a stronger Europe.

Were people truly aware of the ramifications? The Bank of England has put us in special measures to try and protect our economy and the £ fell twice as sharply as it did on black Momday... EU migration has had a net positive impact on the economy (that is not down to a matter of opinion - please feel free to google it)

And finally... It's patronise my dear...!

 

Not this ...

 

And now the mud slinging has begun, it's the first time elderly voter at fault, people who voted out didn't understand the consequences of their actions, selfish narrow minded xenophobes, remainers spitting feathers at all the thick little Englanders who have dared to sever our membership of the EU.

Hardly any mention of the root cause of this vote, the absolute self interested, self absorbed bureaucrats in Brussels who would not be happy until they achieved their goal of a federal Europe.

 

 

This ...     Its not going to be plain sailing Wollfy but it just maybe we can improve things better from the outside.   Europe, when they calm down, will hopefully listen just that bit more now before they implode.

[UPinCarolina]

"Meantime we shall express our darker purpose.—

Give me the map there. Know that we have divided

In three our kingdom, and ’tis our fast intent

To shake all cares and business from our age,

Conferring them on younger strengths while we

Unburdened crawl toward death." (King Lear I.i 37-43)

[rmahrez]

See this is where people like you, who appear to have fallen into traps set by the elite during this voting process.

 

 

Immigration is a great positive for a nation like ourselves......but leaving the E.U actually allows us to access immigration more easily.

 

We can agree then that immigration is a great positive. I just think it remains a positive if we remain in the EU with freedom of movement, with the opportunity to live in Europe and travel freely balancing the potential cost of some extra immigration from EU nations. That's just my point of view though as someone with plans to travel and live abroad. I see for someone else it may be different, but I know the majority of young people would like to keep their options open in this regard.

 

It's not like our borders are wide open in the EU; we are not in the Schengen area after all and immigration from outside the EU is regulated strictly. Plus many low skilled workers from the EU that arrive are needed to take up jobs no-one in Britain wants and contribute greatly to the economy.

[jonthefox]

So to recap . The final result was

Leave 51.9%

Remain 48.1%

Abstain 28%

Arsenal

[UPinCarolina]

My wife is in the US at the moment. Says the coverage over there is that we are all bigots. I know for some that was a factor, but it certainly isn't for everyone.

Not on Fox News, certainly. I'm watching the cable news now and it would appear your wife is greatly exaggerating.

[Smudge]

Something I have always found absolutely baffling, we went around the World telling everywhere to go for it, raise your flag, you don't need us anymore! Of course you'll be ok!

 

Until yesterday when it came to ourselves doing it we shyed away, so bizarre.

 

Chuckle, not quite the way the 'ham shanks' viewed it. 

[Merging Cultures]

Not on Fox News, certainly. I'm watching the cable news now and it would appear your wife is greatly exaggerating.

Wouldn't surprise me to be honest !

Although a number of friends have displayed similar views on FB.

[Thracian]

There were no arguments to remain or leave BEFORE the vote, just blatant lies and scaremongering from both sides. 

 

You were one of the worst here, going on about voting for the people you want in power then voting against the people you voted in who supposedly have the knowledge.

 

A poor referendum all round.

 

I'm sad because it's the younger people that it is going to hurt in England.

 

I'll just have to go through a bit more bureaucracy to get the right papers to continue to work and enjoy living on my continent.

 

I'm European not just a little minded Englander.

 

 

 

Don't pretend to speak for young people you know nothing about because a lot of them voted "Leave" along with the other millions. And if you're "sad" it's probably about not getting your own way. My kids stopped reacting like that before they started school.       

[foxoffderby]

Not on Fox News, certainly. I'm watching the cable news now and it would appear your wife is greatly exaggerating.

 

I agree I've been watching Fox and CNN as well as Sky News and its nothing of the sorts

[Parafox]

The turnout was low among the under 25's apparently. Those who didn't vote, as opposed to couldn't vote, have lost the right to complain.

 

Looks like the clash with Glastonbury has had an unfortunate effect.

[maynefox]

We can agree then that immigration is a great positive. I just think it remains a positive if we remain in the EU with freedom of movement, with the opportunity to live in Europe and travel freely balancing the potential cost of some extra immigration from EU nations. That's just my point of view though as someone with plans to travel and live abroad. I see for someone else it may be different, but I know the majority of young people would like to keep their options open in this regard.

 

It's not like our borders are wide open in the EU; we are not in the Schengen area after all and immigration from outside the EU is regulated strictly. Plus many low skilled workers from the EU that arrive are needed to take up jobs no-one in Britain wants and contribute greatly to the economy.

 

A fair enough point.

 

But what I don't stand for is the Remain youth putting all the blame on the older generation - (I'm not saying you are). 

 

How they can not see that Brussels' inflexibility to any credible reform has got to a point where people are fed up is beyond me. Not one person on my social media has mentioned this.

[Alf Bentley]

I'm sure we'll get some sort of half membership. It's in nobody's interest to play silly buggers.

 

 

https://next.ft.com/content/7badcbe2-3a0b-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7

There is one formal route out of the EU: Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. This so-called exit clause is highly contentious and may become the subject of the first stand-off between Brussels and Brexit Britain. The article establishes the balance of power for divorce talks. 

Can it be used to agree a new trade deal?

No. Most lawyers in Brussels and Whitehall see Article 50 as only deciding the terms of separation — basically ending the obligations and responsibilities that stem from being an EU member. The substance of talks would range from budget contributions to the transition arrangements for expats and cross-border companies. Future trade terms between Britain and the EU would be settled in a separate trade agreement, which may not be concluded at the same time. Senior EU officials think there may be a gap of several years. Trade deals are harder to agree. While Article 50 only needs a weighted majority of EU countries to be concluded, a broad trade deal will need unanimity and ratification by national parliaments. This means that as well as EU leaders, more than 30 national, European and regional assemblies also have a veto.

https://next.ft.com/content/83c86642-33ae-11e6-ad39-3fee5ffe5b5b

The EU is eyeing legal options to strong-arm Britain if a Brexit government refuses to invoke the bloc’s formal “exit clause”, in plans that highlight growing fears of an acrimonious and messy divorce should the UK vote to leave the union. Alarmed by statements by senior Leave campaigners, EU lawyers have examined ways to suspend Britain’s rights within the single market if an uncooperative Brexit government rolled back common EU laws without seeking to formally leave the union. Senior Leave campaigners have said Britain would delay triggering the clause and instead seek informal talks on new trade arrangements, without giving other EU countries the power to cut off talks. In the meantime, Chris Grayling, a senior minister campaigning for Brexit, said Britain would legislate to immediately curb the role of EU judges and potentially restrict some free movement rights. This has worried senior officials in Berlin, Paris and Rome, who see it as a tactical ploy that would increase uncertainty and provoke a hostile response from the remaining 27 EU member states. “This is not on the cards. If they want to leave it is Article 50. There is no third way,” said one senior EU diplomat involved in contingency planning. “Yes or No, there is nothing in between. People will be surprised by how quickly we move to Article 50.”

[Thracian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36618317

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

A truly wonderful result, and a proud day for our country, and the people who voted to take us back, from the inept,un-elected, and probably corrupt foreign bigots, who have been sucking the life blood out of our great nation. We have been held under the yoke for the best part of 40 years.

 

Anyone who didn't think that the pound would plunge, are idiots. At the moment we have the knee jerk reaction that uncertainty brings. In the next couple of years or so, when we re-negotiate with Europe, the grass will be far greener.

 

We shall have free trade with the likes of India, China, Australia, New Zealand, etc. The USA has today stated our current relationship will remain as it has always been.

 

The scaremongering has not worked for the short sighted pro European politicians, who prefer our country to be dictated to by other countries, which need us still for many reasons, trade being at the top of the list.

 

We can now use money to protect those things that need changing, the NHS being a prime example (This is really worth a thread on it's own). My other half works for them, and the vast majority of her colleagues wanted Brexit.

 

There are of course numerous other things that we can now take control of, including of course, the massive issue of immigration. We can now pick and choose for ourselves, who can enter the country. Professional, and skilled workers, in sensible numbers, and not the dross who contribute nothing. (Of course we have our own dross, but that is unfortunate.)

 

The nation have spoken in a fair and democratic manner, and the foundations laid for a glittering future for all generations of people, in the years ahead.

 

To be able make our own decisions means that true democracy, is once again ours. Thank you, and well done to those who had the courage of their convictions, to free us from a vile, and dictatorial Europe.