Brexit Discussion Thread.

[Leicester_Loyal]

I really feel let down by the electorate; the leave side won largely because of a large percentage of over-60's voting leave. These people will not be around for much longer, while the younger generation who this decision impacts the most voted almost 70-30 for remain.

 

 

This sort of view literally disgusts me. People who have contributed their whole lives into our economy, worked their backsides off and have done their best to contribute to this country but because they 'won't be here for much longer' their vote shouldn't be viewed as equal to some snobby 20 year old.

 

Maybe the over 60s believe this country was better pre 1973, and it's only got worse after we joined the EU?

 

We live in a democracy for a reason, every vote is equal, regardless of age or any other demographic.

[Leicester_Loyal]

You may not think that, but I plan to travel abroad in Europe in the coming years and possibly even live in Europe. That will now be much harder due to Brexit. Therefore for me and many others the freedom of movement is a good thing, even if others see it as a negative due to immigration draining our resources. For the record, I believe immigration is a good thing however. Immigrants contribute greatly to our economy and a diverse society is a positive rather than a negative.

 

You'll still be able to travel around Europe and live in other countries. As long as you work hard and contribute to their economy other countries won't not allow you to live there. This is exactly what we have voted for to happen in this country by voting leave. You won't never be allowed to visit another EU country again just because we are not longer in the EU.

[SemperEadem]

I would also like to add a comment about Labour voters, and their disinterest of the labour party as a whole.

The Labour party is no longer, and has never have been, the 'working mans party'.

Generations of my family have always been self-employed, and have always voted Tory because, quite simply, Labour's approach to offer benefits to those not working is ridiculous. It appears these mainly northern and working class individuals are finally waking up.

Working class tories... The worse type.

[ousefox]

The turnout was low among the under 25's apparently. Those who didn't vote, as opposed to couldn't vote, have lost the right to complain.

Looks like the clash with Glastonbury has had an unfortunate effect.

This massively ****s me off. I'm on holiday with 6 lads. Half of them didn't vote because it was too much effort and are now moaning and upset.

They have no right to moan at all. I'd like to see the turnout figures for people my age. There are far too many apathetic, lazy bastards.

I'm becoming quite keen on the idea of compulsory voting myself.

[ozleicester]

The breakdown of our trust in the existing political situation is not being recognised as a major driver here.

 

All around the world support for "major parties" is diminishing, far right or left independents and extremists are gaining support, brexit is another example of major party distrust, the tories and labour are too similar, neither of them can be trusted to do whats right for society and both are too busy answering to the greedy desires of multinationals.

 

this is terrific and the next few years are going to be great entertainment.

 

[Merging Cultures]

I agree I've been watching Fox and CNN as well as Sky News and its nothing of the sorts

To be fair though Fox wouldn't!! But I do think she probably was being a bit reactionary, like a number of people on here!

[Dr The Singh]

The breakdown of our trust in the existing political situation is not being recognised as a major driver here.

All around the world support for "major parties" is diminishing, far right or left independents and extremists are gaining support, brexit is another example of major party distrust, the tories and labour are too similar, neither of them can be trusted to do whats right for society and both are too busy answering to the greedy desires of multinationals.

this is terrific and the next few years are going to be great entertainment.

I like what you say buddy

[Guest]

We live in a democracy for a reason, every vote is equal, regardless of age or any other demographic.

Unless you're under 18 and will be dealing with the repercussions of this eh?

[Alf Bentley]

I reckon one of the features of this referendum will be massive disparities between different regions - and different age groups, socioeconomic groups etc.

I've been and voted Remain, by some distance the better of 2 gambles on the future. But I might prefer a big national vote for Leave to a 51%-49% split, leading to long-term bitterness between different regions, social groups, age groups etc, 

 

It wouldn't surprise me if some regions were 65%+ Remain and others 65%+ Leave.

 

Votes are initially counted by council, but are then pooled into 12 regions. I'll have a go at predicting them (egg on face later); feel free to join in the fun!

 

Scotland: 64% Remain   62% Remain

Wales: 51% Remain     52% Leave

N. Ireland: 58% Remain   56% Remain

NE: 56% Leave   58% Leave

Yorks/Humber: 55% Leave   58% Leave

NW: 54% Remain   53.7% Leave

W. Midlands: 52% Remain   59% Leave

E. Midlands: 52% Leave   58% Leave

East: 58% Leave   57% Leave

London: 63% Remain   60% Remain

SE: 54% Leave   52% Leave

SW: 51% Leave   53% Leave

 

I suspect that equates to a narrow Remain overall, but I'm not at all confident that will happen. Odds of 1/9 for Remain are bollocks, I reckon. What's that based on? The assumption that undecided voters will support the status quo? In lots of areas, Leave will be seen as the "accepted majority opinion" - in some areas because it is, in other areas because Leave supporters tend to be more committed, more vocal. Differential turnout might tell us something early on: higher turnout in Scotland/London helps Remain, higher turnout in E/SE & parts of the North helps Leave, I reckon.

 

 

Not TOO much egg on my face from my pre-count predictions (actual results in bold/underlined). Got Midlands and NW a bit wrong, but pretty close with the rest - and closing analysis stands up, I reckon. 

[davieG]

I've no doubt that businesses at all levels will use this as an excuse to raise prices whether there's a justification for it or not it will also become the go to excuse for governments and businesses.

[rmahrez]

This sort of view literally disgusts me. People who have contributed their whole lives into our economy, worked their backsides off and have done their best to contribute to this country but because they 'won't be here for much longer' their vote shouldn't be viewed as equal to some snobby 20 year old.

 

Maybe the over 60s believe this country was better pre 1973, and it's only got worse after we joined the EU?

 

We live in a democracy for a reason, every vote is equal, regardless of age or any other demographic.

 

Unless you're in the 16-17 age range like me and don't get a vote, and therefore my vote is not equal but equates to zero, despite this having an affect on me as much as anyone and far more than any over-60.

 

Fair enough if you're voting for what you believe in and think leaving is best for the country as a whole, I totally respect that. But if you're voting to put two fingers up at the establishment, which I think some people have done, this is not fair on younger generations who have to bear the consequences.

 

You'll still be able to travel around Europe and live in other countries. As long as you work hard and contribute to their economy other countries won't not allow you to live there. This is exactly what we have voted for to happen in this country by voting leave. You won't never be allowed to visit another EU country again just because we are not longer in the EU.

 

I guess this is true, but it would be far more complicated than it is under the freedom of movement.

[Carl the Llama]

This sort of view literally disgusts me. People who have contributed their whole lives into our economy, worked their backsides off and have done their best to contribute to this country but because they 'won't be here for much longer' their vote shouldn't be viewed as equal to some snobby 20 year old.

Maybe the over 60s believe this country was better pre 1973, and it's only got worse after we joined the EU?

We live in a democracy for a reason, every vote is equal, regardless of age or any other demographic.

Ah, the dementia argument.

[Webbo]

https://next.ft.com/content/7badcbe2-3a0b-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7

There is one formal route out of the EU: Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. This so-called exit clause is highly contentious and may become the subject of the first stand-off between Brussels and Brexit Britain. The article establishes the balance of power for divorce talks. 

Can it be used to agree a new trade deal?

No. Most lawyers in Brussels and Whitehall see Article 50 as only deciding the terms of separation — basically ending the obligations and responsibilities that stem from being an EU member. The substance of talks would range from budget contributions to the transition arrangements for expats and cross-border companies. Future trade terms between Britain and the EU would be settled in a separate trade agreement, which may not be concluded at the same time. Senior EU officials think there may be a gap of several years. Trade deals are harder to agree. While Article 50 only needs a weighted majority of EU countries to be concluded, a broad trade deal will need unanimity and ratification by national parliaments. This means that as well as EU leaders, more than 30 national, European and regional assemblies also have a veto.

https://next.ft.com/content/83c86642-33ae-11e6-ad39-3fee5ffe5b5b

The EU is eyeing legal options to strong-arm Britain if a Brexit government refuses to invoke the bloc’s formal “exit clause”, in plans that highlight growing fears of an acrimonious and messy divorce should the UK vote to leave the union. Alarmed by statements by senior Leave campaigners, EU lawyers have examined ways to suspend Britain’s rights within the single market if an uncooperative Brexit government rolled back common EU laws without seeking to formally leave the union. Senior Leave campaigners have said Britain would delay triggering the clause and instead seek informal talks on new trade arrangements, without giving other EU countries the power to cut off talks. In the meantime, Chris Grayling, a senior minister campaigning for Brexit, said Britain would legislate to immediately curb the role of EU judges and potentially restrict some free movement rights. This has worried senior officials in Berlin, Paris and Rome, who see it as a tactical ploy that would increase uncertainty and provoke a hostile response from the remaining 27 EU member states. “This is not on the cards. If they want to leave it is Article 50. There is no third way,” said one senior EU diplomat involved in contingency planning. “Yes or No, there is nothing in between. People will be surprised by how quickly we move to Article 50.”

Well obviously they're talking big now, the negotiation hasn't started yet. They'll do a deal.

[VLC86]

Worst I've had for ages ...   and all because we've left the EU !!    The end is nigh !

 

Sneezing my head off when dealing with a few thousand bees that had called my home their home a couple of hours ago.

 

Immigration at its worst there, I hope you faraged them.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

You might be right.

It's hard not to act like a child when something so painstakingly obvious has been overlooked by a majority, the ramifications are going to lead to job losses and hardship, and there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it.

I like to think of myself as a level-headed individual, not tending to over-react in good or in bad. 

I've no shame in admitting that in this case, yes, I am throwing my toys out of the pram. I'm not saying it's right, it just feels like the only thing I can do right now. Next coping mechanism is alcohol. See you on the other side.

Oh dear, another deluded loser. You certainly don't appear to be level headed, but I may be wrong.

[Merging Cultures]

Not being funny, but a 16-17 years old vote isn't equal to a 36 year olds. Mi for instance, I'm double their age, 2 kids, bills, and I work for a European company (albeit I don't live in the UK at the moment). I remember being that age and thinking I knew so much. I didn't. I've now travelled the world and have seen and experienced so much more. The grey vote is really valuable. I'm pleased our older and wiser voters voted how they did.

[Koke]

This has been the most divisive ugly campaign in my adult lifetime. Bad tension and rifts between friends and families. Politician murdered. Horrible language from both sides of the campaign.

[Dodgy Bob]

I've no doubt that businesses at all levels will use this as an excuse to raise prices whether there's a justification for it or not it will also become the go to excuse for governments and businesses.

Raise prices and/or cut wages/pensions/training budgets, reduce employment, talk about the need for "doing more with less" etc. I said to my colleague earlier you can guarantee our top brass were sitting around a table first thing discussing how they could use this to screw everyone else over.

[Countryfox]

Immigration at its worst there, I hope you faraged them.

 

Nope ...    a nice bee person has been and gathered them up and they will now be looked after till they are old and grey little bees.   

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

The result in Scotland is not surprising at all. Whatever Nicola Sturgeon wants, she gets the votes. Had she wanted to Leave, the whole of Scotland would have done the same, and imagine the size of the Leave victory, then.

[Countryfox]

Unless you're under 18 and will be dealing with the repercussions of this eh?

 

I vote for votes for the under 18s ...    prams and bugg-ehs form a queue on the left please.   

[Claridge]

This has been the most divisive ugly campaign in my lifetime. Bad tension and rifts between friends and families. Politician murdered. Horrible language from both sides of the campaign.

What a load of rubbish.

People have actually been talking about politics and voting,hence the large turnout.Of course you will get horrible language etc...but that's always been the case in elections.

[VLC86]

Nope ...    a nice bee person has been and gathered them up and they will now be looked after till they are old and grey little bees.   

 

In other words they are sponging from the state, Shocking. I'm voting out.

[yorkie1999]

Remember this....the generation which have voted out have experienced the whole process of British integration into the E.U. From the initial 'enter referendum' to the current 'exit referendum'.

 

These people clearly believe the promises they were given to join the E.U have not been met.

Which is correct, we promised to buy their bmw's and they promised to buy our austin allegro's, but we did and they didn't. Good job we decided to keep hold jet engines for military planes, cos they're going to have to come cap in hand when they want a new one.

[Countryfox]

The result in Scotland is not surprising at all. Whatever Nicola Sturgeon wants, she gets the votes. Had she wanted to Leave, the whole of Scotland would have done the same, and imagine the size of the Leave victory, then.

 

I know one thing the miserable faced old sourpuss ain't getting ! ...