Brexit Discussion Thread.

[Koke]

What a load of rubbish.

People have actually been talking about politics and voting,hence the large turnout.Of course you will get horrible language etc...but that's always been the case in elections.

You don't think this campaign has been more divisive than recent election campaigns?

[Countryfox]

In other words they are sponging from the state, Shocking. I'm voting out.

 

Nope ! ..    wrong again Costock, they are paying for their keep with a few dozen jars of honey.        

[Dodgy Bob]

Not being funny, but a 16-17 years old vote isn't equal to a 36 year olds. Mi for instance, I'm double their age, 2 kids, bills, and I work for a European company (albeit I don't live in the UK at the moment). I remember being that age and thinking I knew so much. I didn't. I've now travelled the world and have seen and experienced so much more. The grey vote is really valuable. I'm pleased our older and wiser voters voted how they did.

Being older might mean you've got a bit more experience but I don't think it guarantees you're any less selfish. Take pensions for example, no party in their right mind would suggest cutting the state pension for existing pensioners. You could say young people will literally die if we don't cut pensions and it would still be a massive vote loser. Ditto house prices. Young people can't afford to buy houses, do older people care? Of course not, they just want the superficial satisfaction of seeing their house increase in value and to hell with anybody else.

In a reasonable society there would be an expectation that older voters vote with the lives of young people in mind, but for all their experience I don't think there's any evidence they actually do that. The baby boomer generation seem in many ways to have gone out of their way to screw over the next generation as much as possible.

[Cheese]

I am fed up of all these deluded remain voters insinuating that Britain will now shrivel into some third world country in the coming years. The EU only benefits big businesses wanting to avoid tariffs and select workers from a cheaper pool of labour. It's also annoying that immigration isn't being viewed as a viable reason to leave by the remain camp. Britain, especially southern England, is one of the most densely populated countries in the world and we will struggle to cope if the population continues to increase. We live in a democratic system, stop blaming the elderly and the uneducated for 'ruining' the country. Everyone has the right to have their say and that shouldn't be looked down upon.   

[Alf Bentley]

Well obviously they're talking big now, the negotiation hasn't started yet. They'll do a deal.

 

 

Oh, I'm sure they'll do a deal. On what terms and when, though? For that matter, its still unclear what terms Brexit UK wants (will have to choose between single market & control of immigration, surely?)..

 

The EU won't want negotiations over Brexit to drag on, as it would fuel damaging economic and political uncertainty. I doubt they'd take legal action over the UK waiting to cite Article 50, unless the UK is perceived to be delaying unreasonably or acting in an underhand way. Otherwise, my guess is they'd allow the UK to wait until Sept/Oct to trigger the 2-year divorce under a new PM....but I might be wrong about that. It would be an even bigger mess if they found a legal means to force the UK to start the 2-year divorce immediately, under a lame-duck PM and with a leadership contest ongoing.

 

Trade will presumably continue under current terms until Brexit. It will be in the interests of the EU27 not to agree a generous post-Brexit trade deal, though, as that might encourage other nations to try to leave/do their own deals. Economically and politically, the EU is in a vulnerable position (economic/budget problems, discontent over migration/economy, Far Right on rise, French & German elections next year, shock of Brexit) & really won't want to encourage others who might want out. They'll now be strongly pushing their own interests as a 27-nation bloc (once they've agreed a joint position, which they'll presumably do at the Council next week). Could all get very ugly.

[Thracian]

Potential two fingers for democracy - why would I not be surprised. The sooner we activate departure the better. There are so many opportunities out there and some much trouble brewing in the EU on so many fronts. Even here the attitude to the considerable majority from a massive turnout has been appalling.    

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683115/Brexit-petition-EU-vote-Remain

[Facecloth]

This massively ****s me off. I'm on holiday with 6 lads. Half of them didn't vote because it was too much effort and are now moaning and upset.

They have no right to moan at all. I'd like to see the turnout figures for people my age. There are far too many apathetic, lazy bastards.

I'm becoming quite keen on the idea of compulsory voting myself.

 

When you've got a guy on the news saying he didn't think his vote would matter and an MP quoted as saying he heard people saying they'd voted leave to stop remain winning big, I don't think I want compulsory voting. There's far to many people out there I wouldn't trust to remember to breath in and out let alone make an informed choice, or vote for what they want properly. 

 

And before anyone jumps on me, I'm not calling all leave voters thick, they were just two example. Across the board, of all voting persuasion or non voting persuasions, there are some extremely stupid people out there.

 

Politicians need to engage people to make them want to vote. Sadly this time this was done from all sides with a lot of lies and mudslinging, but it got peoples attention. But we need more engagement, people to be better educated about how important voting is, and to a degree I think that's down to all of us. If you have a close friend or family member you know doesn't vote, they're more likely to respond to you trying to get them interested than they are to listen to Cameron or Corbyn or any other politician they've either not heard of or only vaguely recognise.

[AKCJ]

Not being funny, but a 16-17 years old vote isn't equal to a 36 year olds. Mi for instance, I'm double their age, 2 kids, bills, and I work for a European company (albeit I don't live in the UK at the moment). I remember being that age and thinking I knew so much. I didn't. I've now travelled the world and have seen and experienced so much more. The grey vote is really valuable. I'm pleased our older and wiser voters voted how they did.

 

This generalisation is no better than the "old people shouldn't vote because they won't be around long enough to see it's effects" argument that was posted above.

 

 

There have been plenty of morons voting for both sides of middle ages and above and there have been plenty of 'kids' voting very smartly and providing very well reasoned arguments for both sides.

[Dodgy Bob]

Britain, especially southern England, is one of the most densely populated countries in the world

Yeah but the thing is that's simply just not true.

[Cheese]

Yeah but the thing is that's simply just not true.

Please tell me how that isn't true.

[GingerrrFox]

The audacity of jumped up little shits who are still wanking to Freeview Television X in their parents living room! Some of the comments I've seen floating about and seen through social media are an absolute disgrace in regards to elder voters. The majority of these people have more life experience than they have had Sunday dinners.

[Dodgy Bob]

Please tell me how that isn't true.

It's not true because the population density of the UK is not one of the highest in the world unless "one of the highest" is defined as anywhere in the top 30% and completely ignores the fact that there are great swathes of the planet where barely anyone lives.

[Alf Bentley]

Potential two fingers for democracy - why would I not be surprised. The sooner we activate departure the better. There are so many opportunities out there and some much trouble brewing in the EU on so many fronts. Even here the attitude to the considerable majority from a massive turnout has been appalling.    

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683115/Brexit-petition-EU-vote-Remain

 

 

That petition for another referendum is anti-democratic and a complete non-starter. They want any referendum not achieving a 60% majority on a 75% turnout to trigger another referendum?!  We'd just end up staging continuous referendums forever into infinity as we're never likely to get a 60% majority or a 75% turnout. 

 

Much as it wasn't the outcome I wanted, Brexit must - and will - go ahead now. Negotiations need to start as soon as possible compatible with both sides being able to calmly negotiate a deal acceptable to all - starting Oct at the latest, probably.

 

It was a clear, valid majority on a high turnout, though "a considerable majority" is pushing it (51.9% v. 48.1%).

 

Respecting democracy involves respecting losers as well as winners, too. Farage certainly gave 2 fingers to almost half the nation when he described Brexit voters as "the real people", "the decent people", "the ordinary people", as if Remain voters were sub-human in some way. What a repulsive, divisive little egotist!

[Merging Cultures]

This generalisation is no better than the "old people shouldn't vote because they won't be around long enough to see it's effects" argument that was posted above.

There have been plenty of morons voting for both sides of middle ages and above and there have been plenty of 'kids' voting very smartly and providing very well reasoned arguments for both sides.

It's completely different. Most young people, like the person above lamenting that they didn't have a vote, do not have the same experience. They are often idealistic and somewhat naive.

However, having said that, many that want to actually vote do take time to consider the issues. But they tend to be more of an activist and they might not take the time to consider both sides.

So, no. 16-17 year old children (which by law they are, so not sure why you wrote 'kids') shouldn't vote.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of any population will not fully acquaint themselves of the issues. But not much you can do about that. It is one of the reasons i don't think making voting too convenient should be considered. If you want to vote, you have to wait until your old enough (and by extension have more experience) and also actively get up off your arse and do it.

[Thracian]

When you've got a guy on the news saying he didn't think his vote would matter and an MP quoted as saying he heard people saying they'd voted leave to stop remain winning big, I don't think I want compulsory voting. There's far to many people out there I wouldn't trust to remember to breath in and out let alone make an informed choice, or vote for what they want properly. 

 

And before anyone jumps on me, I'm not calling all leave voters thick, they were just two example. Across the board, of all voting persuasion or non voting persuasions, there are some extremely stupid people out there.

 

Politicians need to engage people to make them want to vote. Sadly this time this was done from all sides with a lot of lies and mudslinging, but it got peoples attention. But we need more engagement, people to be better educated about how important voting is, and to a degree I think that's down to all of us. If you have a close friend or family member you know doesn't vote, they're more likely to respond to you trying to get them interested than they are to listen to Cameron or Corbyn or any other politician they've either not heard of or only vaguely recognise.

 

 

 

It was a massive turnout with a huge number of areas voting to leave. If you're views had been reflected you wouldn't be complaining about people who hadn't voted.

Basically you've no respect for anyone opinion but your own.

Also you insult voters by supposing their votes were based on politicians prompting. As if anyone would be naive enough to trust such habitual bullshitters.

People I spoke to were mostly underwhelmed by the arguments of the preamble, quickly spotted the contradictions and the threats but actually based their choice on their own observations, their own reading and what was most important to them.    

[Cheese]

It's not true because the population density of the UK is not one of the highest in the world unless "one of the highest" is defined as anywhere in the top 30% and completely ignores the great swathes of the planet where barely anyone lives.

If you look at major countries in the world, not tiny islands such as Malta and city states such as Monaco. The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in the world.

[Thracian]

If you look at major countries in the world, not tiny islands such as Malta and city states such as Monaco. The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in the world.

 

 

That's certainly the  impression the bad losers are giving!     

[Dodgy Bob]

If you look at major countries in the world, not tiny islands such as Malta and city states such as Monaco. The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in the world.

Well if you're going to ignore places at the top like Malta on the basis that it's not a reasonable comparison then you should also ignore places at the bottom like Greenland which is also not a reasonable comparison. The end result will be the same: the UK is only one of the most densely populated countries in the world if "one of the most" is defined as anywhere in the top 30%.

[jammie82uk]

So after all the doom and gloom this morning about the £ v $ and £ v € and the ftse 100

The £ is now on the way up again against the $

The £ has stabilised against the € and is still above its lowest point this year

After this mornings dip the ftse 100 has recovered and has actually finished the week on a plus

[Countryfox]

 

Personally, I believe that everyone should vote in every election.

 

I believe that everyone should have the right to vote ....     if they wish ....   However, if they do not wish to vote that is their prerogative (as long as they don't moan afterwards about the result).  This referendum has been a classic example where some people have voted despite not really being sure which way to go or even worse voting because they haven't got a clue but feel the need to vote something !!   Surely for people like that they should abstain and not be criticised for that.  Its all right saying they should take the trouble to work it out for themselves but there has been so much b*lox talked by both sides that is not such an easy thing to do.

[Cheese]

Well if you're going to ignore places at the top like Malta on the basis that it's not a reasonable comparison then you should also ignore places at the bottom like Greenland which is also not a reasonable comparison. The end result will be the same: the UK is only one of the most densely populated countries in the world if "one of the most" is defined as anywhere in the top 30%.

So you believe that mass immigration isn't a problem? Greenland is a part of Denmark I don't think that would be counted as it's own country.

[Thracian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36618796

[Countryfox]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36618796

 

Give the monkeys Spanish passports and thereby split it 50 50 ...    sorted !     

[AKCJ]

It's completely different. Most young people, like the person above lamenting that they didn't have a vote, do not have the same experience. They are often idealistic and somewhat naive.

However, having said that, many that want to actually vote do take time to consider the issues. But they tend to be more of an activist and they might not take the time to consider both sides.

So, no. 16-17 year old children (which by law they are, so not sure why you wrote 'kids') shouldn't vote.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of any population will not fully acquaint themselves of the issues. But not much you can do about that. It is one of the reasons i don't think making voting too convenient should be considered. If you want to vote, you have to wait until your old enough (and by extension have more experience) and also actively get up off your arse and do it.

 

 

You're using words like "often" and "most". You're generalising about a huge chunk of the electorate.

 

You've decided that 'kids' aren't able to understand politics enough to be able to vote responsibly... which is clearly wrong. It's true that there are a number of them, but there are thousands of 'adults' who haven't got a scoobie.

 

Young adults/late teenagers have never been more educated in terms of politics from my experience. It's a shame that people like yourself don't want to consider the thoughts and needs of the nation's future workers because you don't think they know what they want right now (even though a large portion of them do).

[Merging Cultures]

You're using words like "often" and "most". You're generalising about a huge chunk of the electorate.

You've decided that 'kids' aren't able to understand politics enough to be able to vote responsibly... which is clearly wrong. It's true that there are a number of them, but there are thousands of 'adults' who haven't got a scoobie.

Young adults/late teenagers have never been more educated in terms of politics from my experience. It's a shame that people like yourself don't want to consider the thoughts and needs of the nation's future workers because you don't think they know what they want right now (even though a large portion of them do).

I did a-level politics. Doesn't mean I understood how it all worked and how the world really functioned. I was idealistic and thought I knew what was right. I was wrong. It doesn't mean I won't look back in another 20 years and think I'm wide of the mark now either.

And yes, it's a generalisation, because generally at the age of 16-17 (the age the poster was complaining about and the age I have been talking about) they often live at home still and do not have jobs. Some work full time, some have moved out, but generally that is not the case. The responsibilities and priorities are different, and not often founded in the reality of the world.

Sorry that seems odd to you. It's a reality for me.

Oh and they are not the electorate because they are only 16-17.