Brexit Discussion Thread.

[fuchsntf]

72% voted..

Now can the British, carry on showing their political interest...

Can they first get the right people to front the various Parties.

Then can they before the next election, get the UK politicians

to understand and listen, to the whys and disenchantments.

Importantly, brexit swore it will give the UK back to the people,

That means for me a total change of political rhetoric, and not the

old guard.New faces need to appear.

There is no argument...it was the major agenda for many.

Will the powers to be, now tackle the dis-organised, and chaotic

organistion on immigration, and I dont mean total stops, nor

stupid deportations. Small foreign businesses will need to be respected,

plus all working immigrants.

Plus the decent Brit businessman need to stand up, and offer decent levels

of employment, and accept decent minimum wage levels.

Targets of getting education to an higher standard, outside the university

catchment levels, is a must.

The electorate has now a duty to serve the society they want to see built,

they voted for change now take part, and dont create isolation, and another

blame perspective and attitude.

[Facecloth]

72% voted..

Now can the British, carry on showing their political interest...

Can they first get the right people to front the various Parties.

Then can they before the next election, get the UK politicians

to understand and listen, to the whys and disenchantments.

Importantly, brexit swore it will give the UK back to the people,

That means for me a total change of political rhetoric, and not the

old guard.New faces need to appear.

There is no argument...it was the major agenda for many.

Will the powers to be, now tackle the dis-organised, and chaotic

organistion on immigration, and I dont mean total stops, nor

stupid deportations. Small foreign businesses will need to be respected,

plus all working immigrants.

Plus the decent Brit businessman need to stand up, and offer decent levels

of employment, and accept decent minimum wage levels.

Targets of getting education to an higher standard, outside the university

catchment levels, is a must.

The electorate has now a duty to serve the society they want to see built,

they voted for change now take part, and dont create isolation, and another

blame perspective and attitude.

Nice poem.

[fuchsntf]

Can we now get our fish n chips, back to being wrapped in Newspapers.

[Donut]

Don't forget one I heard in the pub tonight - "I voted stayyy and I'm well annoyed, can't go on holiday to Maga now"

Far worthier than the pensioner in the corner talking about the Lisbon treaty. Old people should be banned.

 

Mate, because you can trot out "lisbon treaty's" and "magna carta's" i think you like to belittle the remainers fears for the future.

 

And if those fears come true, youve been part of the vote thats ruined the country too.

 

And to be honest, as controversial as it is, the younger guy is worthier than the pensionner in my opinion. He has to live through years of these changes.

[Guest MattP]

I haven't belittled anyone, for what it's worth I thought we had good arguments for both leave and remain, I fell down firmly on the side leave had the stronger one.

To be quite frank I'm been embarrassed at the reaction of some of the remain voters on here, most of whom were nowhere to be seen during the actual debate, strange given how morally strong and intellectual superior the argument was.

[Donut]

I haven't belittled anyone, for what it's worth I thought we had good arguments for both leave and remain, I fell down firmly on the side leave had the stronger one.

To be quite frank I'm been embarrassed at the reaction of some of the remain voters on here, most of whom were nowhere to be seen during the actual debate, strange given how morally strong and intellectual superior the argument was.

 

Youre belittling the guy you overheard. Yeah hes talking about a trivial issue but his lifes gonna be affected in many ways as well.

 

Your old pensioner friends opinion is no more important than his.

 

Id say your old pensionner friend hasnt much of a clue of what issues the younger guy faces.

 

Got to get on with it now anyway, good or bad.

[Bellend Sebastian]

I'm on holiday - in the EU, of course - and there's a girl from Poland on the entertainments team that has perhaps the finest arse I've ever seen.

Today's events feel like there's now an even bigger barrier between me and that arse than there was already, and ultimately that just makes me feel very sad

[Dodgy Bob]

Well I reckon the youth has it right worrying about the exchange rate. For me that's more pertinent to most people's lives than the mechanisms of the Lisbon treaty. That's just me though, I'm always more concerned about direct financial impact than I am about the detailed inner workings of political agreements. Maybe I'm out of touch and nobody cares about money anymore.

[Donut]

Im thinking about business trading with us, jobs, whether ill actually be better off, whether services will actually improve.

 

I want to see the direct impact on my life.

 

I dont care if i cant sit there and talk about treaty's.

[Bettsj2]

The EU is supposed to be an inclusive leveller for the region. Designed to distribute the wealth to bring up countries, end divide, promote peace and unity amongst its members and break down barriers. A liberal organisation with human rights and forward thinking at the forefront of its doings.

Its perfectly understandable why so many people are so upset as it really is something that would safeguard the future of not just us, but everyone in the region.

The reason I voted leave is because the EU in its current format doesnt live up to these ideals. Its an elitist organisation embroiled with large business and corporations that once again, looks after the interests of the few, rather than the many.

You look at the Greece situation, Spanish unemployment, Portugals economic woe, the continuing corruption in Eastern Europe (which plays a pretty large part in migrants leaving the area) and wonder, what about their future? Then look at the lack of action when Russia invaded Ukraine or the uncoordinated and inhumane response to the migrant crisis and it really points out where the priority is.

The way the current EU operates doesnt combine at all with the ideals that remain campaigners are talking about.

I know that a fair number of leave voters did so because they dont like the fact a Polish Deli has opened on their High Street. That is wrong. My hope in voting leave, is that as one of the only net contributors to the organisation, other net contributors dont want to shoulder the burden and the people of those countries follow a similar pattern, forcing a referendum and destabilise the Union in its current format.

Then my hope is the Union dismantles and from it, a new organisation is born. One that recognises that people need to be listened too and will actually not screw the poor for a dollar. A new union that actually does provide hope to everyone and tackles issues like corruption head on, and look to help the people of those countries rather than just encourage the ones that are capable of rebellion to leave and set up shop in another country. I want a Union to form that will be fit for purpose and that I can be proud of and know that it is the right thing to be a part of and not just blindly follow ignoring its flaws.

To me those who voted remain did so with an inward view. They thought of themselves on this shore. They didnt give a thought to the 14 year old Romanian girl forced into the sex industry and left unprotected. No thought was given to the Greek father of 4 who burns his house down with his family inside as the despair of poverty has gotten too much. All this talk of embracing the world was really about protecting the establishment. Protecting the wealth that we enjoy.

My thoughts may well be pie in the sky and in todays world unrealistic. But the world as it was yesterday was not the world I want my kids to grow up in where we just pretend to be concerned for the world and blindly ignore the issues that cause the pain. Today for a moment when I saw the result, I saw my vision and I saw what could happen. I saw that this organisation that has shamelessly fooled us all into thinking it was anything other than what it is, kicked in the teeth and on the ropes. Just for a moment, I thought the world might change for the better.

Then Cameron resigned, Corbyn was dealt a vote of no confidence, those who claimed to be liberal showed their selfish, narrow mindedness, Sturgeon showed her opportunistic nature. The country argued, hurled insults and divided itself further. As quick as my hope arrived it vanished in the bullshit of modern self righteousness (which i'm as guilt of as anyone!).

Normality will resume, the markets will settle and Article 50 probably wont be implemented. It'll be vetoed and this whole thing will look like a soap opera put on to further the careers of a few. We'll be duped into thinking things have changed when really they'll have stayed the same.

Still, maybe we can all admit it was pretty exciting and at least agree on that.

[The Guvnor]

Parents caring about their own children is a rather obvious exemption. What about the young people who don't have wealthy parents? Who cares about and helps them? Nobody, that's who. Certainly not today's older generation.

As for supply and demand. You're right, but supply is the main problem. There is a huge supply problem and a big reason for that is a political desire for high house prices driven by older homeowners entirely selfish desire for a useless increase in their paper wealth at the expense of the next generation.

So you didn't comment on the thousands of buy to let investors I suppose they are all old greedy sods, I still don't understand how you have come to the conclusion that older home owners are selfish, how about they put a shift in and worked bloody hard to have a roof over their heads,my parents did it and so did I.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Ah, the dementia argument.

lol

 

We've left, let's move on

[Dodgy Bob]

So you didn't comment on the thousands of buy to let investors I suppose they are all old greedy sods, I still don't understand how you have come to the conclusion that older home owners are selfish, how about they put a shift in and worked bloody hard to have a roof over their heads,my parents did it and so did I.

Check the historical house price to earnings ratio. Houses used to be worth 2.5 times average earnings, now they're worth more like 5 times average earnings or 10 times average earnings in London. On top of that, mortgages now require much higher deposits. So, I genuinely congratulate you on your hard work and getting on the housing ladder (although you did say earlier you did it with your parents help so now I don't know what to believe) but if you or your parents were attempting the same thing now you'd need to work twice as hard to get there.

This is substantially the fault of the older generation because, like I say, they vote for political parties who promise house price growth, when in fact house price growth hinders the young and doesn't even really benefit themselves except in a superficial way.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Anyone watching Dannial Hannan oh Newsnight?

Evan Davis is giving him hell!

[GaelicFox]

Anyone watching Dannial Hannan oh Newsnight?

Evan Davis is giving him hell!

Evan has grown a set of balls recently

[Sharpe's Fox]

Anyone watching Dannial Hannan oh Newsnight?

Evan Davis is giving him hell!

Yep, just saw it.

I don't think what he said about a future UK's future relationship with the EU was as inflammatory as Davies seemed to act like it was. Davies was definitely right when he said the Brexit government has to get net migration to the tens of thousands but that's because it's the governments official manifesto position, not because of what he thought Vote Leave implied. Of course that might change if there is a snap GE.

[GaelicFox]

Project fear is still at work here

Kate is talking shite !

Drama queen

[jammie82uk]

Just catching up on this thread and hearing/seeing silly things said, I seen a post on Facebook by a 17 year old which said "if I'm banned from voting for the first 18 years of my life then why ain't elderly people banned for their last 18 years before they die as the future won't matter to them"

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Yep, just saw it.

I don't think what he said about a future UK's future relationship with the EU was as inflammatory as Davies seemed to act like it was. Davies was definitely right when he said the Brexit government has to get net migration to the tens of thousands but that's because it's the governments official manifesto position, not because of what he thought Vote Leave implied. Of course that might change if there is a snap GE.

But Evan was spot on - why didn't he say this beforehand? (We all know the reason).

Whoever takes over has got a difficult job, because so much has been promised but I'm not sure if much of its deliverable in reality - and the one major thing a lot of people.voted on might not change at all?

That said, there is the potential for mass emmigration, especially if Scotland became a border.

[The Doctor]

I haven't belittled anyone, for what it's worth I thought we had good arguments for both leave and remain, I fell down firmly on the side leave had the stronger one.

To be quite frank I'm been embarrassed at the reaction of some of the remain voters on here, most of whom were nowhere to be seen during the actual debate, strange given how morally strong and intellectual superior the argument was.

The facts should have spoke for themselves - it was self evident that the scots would go unanimously remain and a vote to leave would mark the end of the UK, that peace in ireland and the good Friday agreement is intricately linked with the EU and leaving will cause turmoil, and that a leave vote would send us into recession (as warned by practically every economic institution).

[Guesty]

I found this quite an interesting read (it's a bit long-winded though).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/eu-democratic-bandwagon-juncker-president-wanted

 

It's from 2014 and is about how none of the major Heads of the European countries really wanted Jean-Claude Juncker as the President. However, due to Europe's bureaucracy it explains why he was elected.

 

I think he's been a big factor in a lot of people voting out. He should never have come out the night before saying (something to the effect) there will be no more negotiation, Britain has got all it will ever get, etc. 

[Guest]

I found this quite an interesting read (it's a bit long-winded though).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/eu-democratic-bandwagon-juncker-president-wanted

It's from 2014 and is about how none of the major Heads of the European countries really wanted Jean-Claude Juncker as the President. However, due to Europe's bureaucracy it explains why he was elected.

I think he's been a big factor in a lot of people voting out. He should never have come out the night before saying (something to the effect) there will be no more negotiation, Britain has got all it will ever get, etc.

Yeah that last minute statement must have galvanised a lot of voters in the leave camp into turning out

[The Guvnor]

Check the historical house price to earnings ratio. Houses used to be worth 2.5 times average earnings, now they're worth more like 5 times average earnings or 10 times average earnings in London. On top of that, mortgages now require much higher deposits. So, I genuinely congratulate you on your hard work and getting on the housing ladder (although you did say earlier you did it with your parents help so now I don't know what to believe) but if you or your parents were attempting the same thing now you'd need to work twice as hard to get there.

This is substantially the fault of the older generation because, like I say, they vote for political parties who promise house price growth, when in fact house price growth hinders the young and doesn't even really benefit themselves except in a superficial way.

No Bob read my post again I did not say I had any financial help from my parents, the reason house prices have risen is because of supply and demand we seem to be going full circle here, its nothing to do with the elderly manipulating the market by continuous strategic voting, what on earth are you talking about.

[Sharpe's Fox]

But Evan was spot on - why didn't he say this beforehand? (We all know the reason).

Whoever takes over has got a difficult job, because so much has been promised but I'm not sure if much of its deliverable in reality - and the one major thing a lot of people.voted on might not change at all?

That said, there is the potential for mass emmigration, especially if Scotland became a border.

It's a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU and not one on the individual issues that frame the debate on that question. People can make their decision on what they think will happen or what they want to happen but those questions are answered in General Elections when governments are elected. Just because people vote leave because they want migration to go down it doesn't mean it will happen because the question on the ballot wasn't about immigrants.

EDIT: of course migration should go down because that's the governments manifesto commitment. I should have used another example but you can insert another issue into the post if you want

[Facecloth]

Just catching up on this thread and hearing/seeing silly things said, I seen a post on Facebook by a 17 year old which said "if I'm banned from voting for the first 18 years of my life then why ain't elderly people banned for their last 18 years before they die as the future won't matter to them"

Would be a shock when you got the letter through banning you knowing you only had 18 years left