Facecloth Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 Dunno mate, but I'm sure the out vote was based on EU migration. The fact that you included a Wikipedia link on the population of the UK shows that you could believe any statistic that that that is thrown at you. Those figures are wrong and we are being lied to and manipulated by what constitutes an official immigrant on a document that is in it's own words was outdated in 2014. What is people's hang up on Wikipedia? Yes it's editable by anyone, it's reasonably well policed and anythung uncited is marked as so. The figures on that page are attributed to the office of national statistics, just as any encyclopaedia or reference book would. It's perfectly legitimate to use Wikipedia. How are you so sure those stats are wrong? Did you do your own nationwide survey in 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Boos Up Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 No, I believe a statistic that comes from UN department of economic and social affairs, although I concede there could be some errors. Why is it wrong, and if so where can I find the real statistics? Who is manipulating us and why are they doing it? Ah ha, if you find any real figures let me know. Statistics are always manipulated to suit any agenda. I don't know if it is wrong or why. All I am saying is that the referendum was won on the lowest common denominator. The fear of immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 The concept of a generational divide isn't something I've just made up. It has been discussed regularly by the media and is even the subject of a few books. The baby boomer generation is considered to have gained advantages from numerous different sources, not limited to: ease of buying houses, incredible house price growth, free higher education, ease of qualifying for well paid jobs, ease of getting well paid jobs, strong wage growth, the emergence of a generous welfare state, unsustainable pensions such as final salary pensions, strong equity investment growth and so on. I have personally never heard a political party saying they are going to address the generational divide, because they know they will lose many votes from older people who in most cases don't realise and aren't of a mind to accept just how privileged they've been in comparison to today's youth. There is simply no evidence that older people vote thinking about anyone but themselves and how much they personally stand to gain from any policy changes. If you've got a decent response to this then I'm all ears, but if all you're going to do is throw more laboured and quite odd insults then save yourself the bother mate, it isn't going to have any effect. It is laughable if you consider my generation were "privileged" by comparison to today's youth, then you are clearly under a banal misconception. The majority of young people had pennies in their pockets compared to the pounds youngsters have today. Cars, televisions, telephones, mobile phones, new cloth's etc (I could write a long list) The majority of today's youth have never had it so good. Life in the forties and fifties, for my generation wasn't just tough, it was bloody hard, as it was for their. No washing machines,fridges. for the majority of families That type of thing had a knock on effect with kids. No money, and a sad life for most. I don't remember my parents and sisters very well, but life was hard. I lost them at a very young age, in a car accident, and the years I spent in a children's home, were a nightmare. I grew up with nothing, and by today's standards, still have very little. However, this isn't about me, but when some ignoramus comes along, and makes pathetic statements about how easy we all had, that does rankle somewhat. Try reading some books on the era, and it's younger population, because it will make you feel an idiot. I voted Leave in the election, with the view of what would be best for the many generations ahead, that I will never see, as well as my grandchildren The very thought of them being in a" Federal Europe" is quite frightening, and that have would been a 100% certainty. As an after thought, it doesn't matter a toss now, because we have democratically avoided such a catastrophic event from happening.It pleases me greatly, that people of your ilk, didn't get what they wanted, by destroying the future, of the people in this country. The people have spoken, so try to man up, and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 I remember when I went on my first ever date I had to check my brother was going nowhere as we only had 1 pair of decent trousers between us yet now I'm supposed to feel guilty and privalege because I worked my nuts off achieved a degree of success at work, raised a family ensuring we never went into debt meaning shitty holidays and managing to pay off my mortgage despite living through a 3 day week and surviving mortgage interest rates of 17% Yes we've had it easy. As for house price inflation don't blame me I've had to watch my kids struggle to get on the ladder and one is still trying and yet the media always portrays it as good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 It did state that an EEC common market "of nine countries grew to twenty eight" but immigration was a symptom ..and people should not be branded racist for wanting to have a say on this like most independent countries in the world do.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Boos Up Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 but immigration was a symptom ..and people should not be branded racist for wanting to have a say on this like most independent countries in the world do.. I agree Johnny, that's what I said "The referendum was won on immigration". I then tried to explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Boos Up Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 the young uns today thas doesn't know thas born... i was brought up in shoe box on side of tut road.. and we got evicted from that.. You lucky bast*rd! I were born ut bottom t' pond and had to share with three Punjab families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 I agree Johnny, that's what I said "The referendum was won on immigration". I then tried to explain why. according to research it was not the top reason given for voting leave...we can never know what is in any persons mind when they vote...i would point out though I never really saw any massive major wildly enthusiastic rally's for remain attended by thousands of excited students or young people... i think leavers were far more motivated ..turn out for under 24's was 37% in one article i read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Col city fan Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 It is laughable if you consider my generation were "privileged" by comparison to today's youth, then you are clearly under a banal misconception. The majority of young people had pennies in their pockets compared to the pounds youngsters have today. Cars, televisions, telephones, mobile phones, new cloth's etc (I could write a long list) The majority of today's youth have never had it so good. Life in the forties and fifties, for my generation wasn't just tough, it was bloody hard, as it was for their. No washing machines,fridges. for the majority of families That type of thing had a knock on effect with kids. No money, and a sad life for most. I don't remember my parents and sisters very well, but life was hard. I lost them at a very young age, in a car accident, and the years I spent in a children's home, were a nightmare. I grew up with nothing, and by today's standards, still have very little. However, this isn't about me, but when some ignoramus comes along, and makes pathetic statements about how easy we all had, that does rankle somewhat. Try reading some books on the era, and it's younger population, because it will make you feel an idiot. I voted Leave in the election, with the view of what would be best for the many generations ahead, that I will never see, as well as my grandchildren The very thought of them being in a" Federal Europe" is quite frightening, and that have would been a 100% certainty. As an after thought, it doesn't matter a toss now, because we have democratically avoided such a catastrophic event from happening.It pleases me greatly, that people of your ilk, didn't get what they wanted, by destroying the future, of the people in this country. The people have spoken, so try to man up, and move on. Kids of today making out that somehow we 'had it easy' is a fookin insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5gHABLHJNQ&feature=youtu.be Cable says the plebs are too stupid to vote.. the authentic voice of the metropolitan elite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgy Bob Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 I remember when I went on my first ever date I had to check my brother was going nowhere as we only had 1 pair of decent trousers between us yet now I'm supposed to feel guilty and privalege because I worked my nuts off achieved a degree of success at work, raised a family ensuring we never went into debt meaning shitty holidays and managing to pay off my mortgage despite living through a 3 day week and surviving mortgage interest rates of 17% Yes we've had it easy. As for house price inflation don't blame me I've had to watch my kids struggle to get on the ladder and one is still trying and yet the media always portrays it as good news. Of course there are going to be examples of individuals who maybe had a poor or disadvantaged upbringing in some way. There are young people now having a similarly poor and disadvantaged upbringing. That doesn't change the fact that that generation in general has benefitted from the advantages previously described. This tangent has gone a bit off topic now really. The reason I brought up the generational divide was to highlight how older people don't seem to realise how much it costs younger people to maintain the advantages to which they've become accustomed. House prices and pensions are the best two examples. Older people are benefitting not because they necessarily deserve it, but because younger people are being forced to pay for it. Younger people aren't often engaged with politics - of course they aren't, they've got much more exciting things going on - but that doesn't justify it being open season on them. A decent society would recognise and seek to address the imbalance between generations but as I've been saying, there is never any evidence of this at election time. In fact the opposite is true. By the way I'm not even particularly young and have had advantages of my own. This isn't meant as a criticism of anyone, just an observation about the way things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 Re-neg with EU in 2017 new referendum on the new deal in 2018 Panic over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guesty Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5gHABLHJNQ&feature=youtu.be Cable says the plebs are too stupid to vote.. the authentic voice of the metropolitan elite... He says Plebiscite. It has a different meaning, but i don't agree with what he says - and he should pick his words better. plebiscite ˈplɛbɪsʌɪt,-sɪt/ noun the direct vote of all the members of an electorate on an important public question such as a change in the constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 Taken from something I've seen floating round Facebook: If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost. Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron. With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership. How? Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor. And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew. The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction. The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50? Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders? Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated. If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act. The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice. When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take. All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign. Interesting assessment, and I really wouldn't put it beyond Cameron to fire one last shot across the bows to destroy the schemes of those who committed mutiny (to carry on the nautical references). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5gHABLHJNQ&feature=youtu.be Cable says the plebs are too stupid to vote.. the authentic voice of the metropolitan elite... Plebiscite. Jesus wept. I might not agree with the guy always but this is laughable. The comments underneath are priceless, "arrghhh bloody educated politicians can **** off with their bloody education". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 It is laughable if you consider my generation were "privileged" by comparison to today's youth, then you are clearly under a banal misconception. The majority of young people had pennies in their pockets compared to the pounds youngsters have today. Cars, televisions, telephones, mobile phones, new cloth's etc (I could write a long list) The majority of today's youth have never had it so good. Life in the forties and fifties, for my generation wasn't just tough, it was bloody hard, as it was for their. No washing machines,fridges. for the majority of families That type of thing had a knock on effect with kids. No money, and a sad life for most. I don't remember my parents and sisters very well, but life was hard. I lost them at a very young age, in a car accident, and the years I spent in a children's home, were a nightmare. I grew up with nothing, and by today's standards, still have very little. However, this isn't about me, but when some ignoramus comes along, and makes pathetic statements about how easy we all had, that does rankle somewhat. Try reading some books on the era, and it's younger population, because it will make you feel an idiot. I voted Leave in the election, with the view of what would be best for the many generations ahead, that I will never see, as well as my grandchildren The very thought of them being in a" Federal Europe" is quite frightening, and that have would been a 100% certainty. As an after thought, it doesn't matter a toss now, because we have democratically avoided such a catastrophic event from happening.It pleases me greatly, that people of your ilk, didn't get what they wanted, by destroying the future, of the people in this country. The people have spoken, so try to man up, and move on. Some people born just after the second world war had troubles, some people born now have troubles. Everyone had certain things difficult just after the second world war, everyone has certain things difficult now. Everyone had certain things easy after the second world war, everyone has certain things easy now. Really not rocket science, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5gHABLHJNQ&feature=youtu.be Cable says the plebs are too stupid to vote.. the authentic voice of the metropolitan elite... Funnily enough I understand what he is trying to say (although he didn't put it over very well) ... Some decisions should be made by intelligent elected people on our behalf. Unfortunately a lot of people, like myself, have lost confidence in these elected elite and don't trust them as far as we can throw them. A sign of the times I am afraid. I personally lost a lot of respect after going down to London and watching the commons in action. Amongst other things on the day I was fascinated by the young woman in the short skirt who kept handing out mints, waving to others in the room and messing about with her phone .... And then there was Vaz ... And .. And ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 As if London didn't have enough votes more than other areas to register their opinion, this is a reflection of one MPs attitude to democracy and the opinion of so many other areas. I'd be happy if London didn't have Labour Party candidates, let alone MPs, given the damage they've done to this country since Blair's time but democracy allows it to happen and, for all that I've said many times that democracy allows decisions to be taken that I'm entirely uncomfortable with, I try to show respect for the process. This isn't respect. It's a man saying "if the vote doesn't go my way I'll try to force it to go another way." And to hell with the millions who think differently. http://news.sky.com/story/1717556/labour-mp-urges-commons-vote-to-block-brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 Funnily enough I understand what he is trying to say (although he didn't put it over very well) ... Some decisions should be made by intelligent elected people on our behalf. Unfortunately a lot of people, like myself, have lost confidence in these elected elite and don't trust them as far as we can throw them. A sign of the times I am afraid. I personally lost a lot of respect after going down to London and watching the commons in action. Amongst other things on the day I was fascinated by the young woman in the short skirt who kept handing out mints, waving to others in the room and messing about with her phone .... And then there was Vaz ... And .. And ... they still cannot grasp the fact it was this we know best for you attitude that has gone on for 40 years that has got us to this...i suppose some will never learn.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgy Bob Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 Taken from something I've seen floating round Facebook: Interesting assessment, and I really wouldn't put it beyond Cameron to fire one last shot across the bows to destroy the schemes of those who committed mutiny (to carry on the nautical references). I wonder what odds you can get on Cameron serving his full term and Britain not leaving the EU after none of the brexiters have the balls to stand up for what they've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 I wonder what odds you can get on Cameron serving his full term and Britain not leaving the EU after none of the brexiters have the balls to stand up for what they've done. what the people have done.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hazels shorts Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 Fair to say the result would be different if the voters knew ... Dave not liking the decision would bottle it. Farage would make stupid promises after the result, of what he'll do....although doesn't actually have a role/job Farage would admit that the 350m going to the NHS was a lie. No credible leader lined up for the Tories. Corbyn on the edge The EU are now promising to change. A bit different to the the vote swing arrogant comments of - if you go you won't come back and you will get no more allowances- take it or leave it basically Whilst we live in a different era, we've had 800ish years of parliament without 'help' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-layrex Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 I wonder what odds you can get on Cameron serving his full term and Britain not leaving the EU after none of the brexiters have the balls to stand up for what they've done. These posts are ****ong stupid. It's been 2 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 Plebiscite. Jesus wept. I might not agree with the guy always but this is laughable. The comments underneath are priceless, "arrghhh bloody educated politicians can **** off with their bloody education". What a sorry, hypocritcal, advert for elderly "intellect". For such a smug, intellectually superior champion of political tolerance I actually wonder if he's ever read a dictionary. Liberal = Favouring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. Democrat = advocate of democracy which equates to "Government by the people exercised either directly or through elected representatives." and "The common people considered as a primary source of political power." Quite how he can bear to wear the badge escapes me. The bloke's beneath contempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 25 June 2016 Share Posted 25 June 2016 Honestly lads Turn on babestation and give this a rest Some of yea are really turning into anal twats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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