Brexit Discussion Thread.

[Bilo]

Summary of the last page or two:  Old people justifying their leave vote by complaining about how bad they had back in the day when we weren't in the EU.

 

Cheers, saved me the hassle of sitting through it.

[Buce]

like you just have you mean? what you don't like is the points i make you don't agree with or ignore..remainers seem to be like that..

You don't make points, just petty, confrontational soundbites.

[Donut]

I agree, Jobs weren't easy to come by when I left school it took me 6 months to find a job where I had to spend a year in a warehouse before I could apply for an apprenticeship and there was no financial support like there is now, we worked longer hours, 46 which included Saturday mornings than is normal now. 

 

I think the fact that when my parents divorced when I was 6 years old my brother and sister along with me were shuffled off to homes 100 miles away because there was again no financial support like there is now and I was one of the lucky ones who managed to avoid being physically or sexually abused like some of the 'inmates' an appropriate description because it was more akin to a borstal than a home.

 

Plus my elder brother had to serve 2 years enforced conscription which was hardly a Butlins Holiday camp.

 

Just a few examples that not everything was all smelling of roses.

 

 

I remember when I went on my first ever date I had to check my brother was going  nowhere as we only had 1 pair of decent trousers between us yet now I'm  supposed to feel guilty and privalege  because I worked my nuts off achieved a degree of success at work, raised a family ensuring we never went into debt meaning  shitty holidays and managing to pay off my mortgage despite living through a 3 day week and surviving mortgage interest rates of 17%

 

Yes we've  had it easy.

 

As for house price inflation don't  blame me I've had to watch my kids struggle to get on the ladder and one is still trying and yet the media always portrays it as good news.

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[lifted*fox]

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

[apple987]

It's utter nonsense. We will leave EU or there will be mass riots.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

So the leave campaign asked for a 2nd referendum. Thanks for confirming that.

It was Boris Johnson, very early on in the campaign (not long after his annocument) that suggested a vote to leave could result in a better renegotiation from the EU and a 2nd referendum... Cameron responded later that day saying it was a one time deal (as per his tweet) and later that day Boris bumbled some sort of correction.

[lifted*fox]

Saw someone describe it as Boris was like the dog chasing the car - now he's finally caught it he doesn't know what to ****ing do.

 

He's blatantly shitting it.  

[Donut]

When will get get some manifesto's of the prospective leaders?

[ozleicester]

[Donut]

Why dont we here actual ways in which the government will run now this decision has been made?

 

Boris or whoever must have had some plans in mind?

[leicsmac]

Came across a decent internet find. Did some paraphrasing if it and found it echoes my own feelings about this pretty well.

"(For) People who want to spread positivity and are encouraging everyone on FB to just 'get over it'. I know you mean well, but please know, it is like you are attending a funeral dressed in a clown costume with a megaphone shouting "cheer up". In the minds of a lot of people, a shitty thing just happened. Allow people to feel shitty, for at least a few days. I know you don't mean to be obnoxious, but that's what you are being by suggesting genuine grief and anxiety is "negative". If you are not that bothered by the outcome of the referendum and do not worry about the validation that rather a lot of unpleasant people have just received, or if you think the future is bright, and are sure of this, then I am genuinely happy for your ability to see the bright side. But, please know that not everyone is finding it that easy, and do not underestimate how deep emotions run. Thanks."

[davieG]

Summary of the last page or two:  Old people justifying their leave vote by complaining about how bad they had back in the day when we weren't in the EU.

Not at all responding to dodgy bob who said we've had it easy don't give a shit about young people and sit here rubbing our hands with glee as house prices rocket.

I loved the concept of a common market but see very little benefit in a political union.

I also believe the EU has got too big and the bigger an organisation is the more corrupt it is and the easier it is to hide that corruption.

[Guest MattP]

Corbyn sacks Hillary Benn after he found he was plotting a coup against him

To think we were supposed to be watching a Tory civil war now.

[Countryfox]

Corbyn sacks Hillary Benn after he found he was plotting a coup against him

To think we were supposed to be watching a Tory civil war now.

 

Back in the cupboard Mr Benn !

[MC Prussian]

Came across a decent internet find. Did some paraphrasing if it and found it echoes my own feelings about this pretty well.

"(For) People who want to spread positivity and are encouraging everyone on FB to just 'get over it'. I know you mean well, but please know, it is like you are attending a funeral dressed in a clown costume with a megaphone shouting "cheer up". In the minds of a lot of people, a shitty thing just happened. Allow people to feel shitty, for at least a few days. I know you don't mean to be obnoxious, but that's what you are being by suggesting genuine grief and anxiety is "negative". If you are not that bothered by the outcome of the referendum and do not worry about the validation that rather a lot of unpleasant people have just received, or if you think the future is bright, and are sure of this, then I am genuinely happy for your ability to see the bright side. But, please know that not everyone is finding it that easy, and do not underestimate how deep emotions run. Thanks."

 

I surely have no issues with a part of the people feeling downbeat about the outcome of the vote, but I'd say there's a lot of people on here who are finding it ridiculous that some of the "Remain" camp representatives have been pretty sore losers and salty with their attacks on and comments about a certain fraction of the population and/or a whole generation.

 

I just find it strange to comprehend how you can defend a relatively young institution you don't know and that you have no personal connection to. It feels rather abstract to believe in a concept (of a unified Europe) that in its current immobile and blown-up materialization only seems to serve itself with a massive bureaucratic apparatus and that breeds distrust as well as corruption, providing the ground for anti-democratic decisions based on massive corporate influence, driven by a few leaders in the ring.

 

On the whole, the attitude reminds me of radical beliefs you'll usually find in the religious sector. To me, that's scary.

[Merging Cultures]

Can't stand this meme, "colonises half the world, complains of immigration"

1. We still need immigration. The vote was a referendum on the EU not on immigration (as much as people want to make it out as such).

2. The colonies got independence, we are getting ours now.

Someone else has posted about how the EU is an important post world war 2 pillar keeping Europe from dangerous nationalism. I had to point out it is very post war as it was established in 1993!

[leicsmac]

I surely have no issues with a part of the people feeling downbeat about the outcome of the vote, but I'd say there's a lot of people on here who are finding it ridiculous that some of the "Remain" camp representatives have been pretty sore losers and salty with their attacks on and comments about a certain fraction of the population and/or a whole generation.

I just find it strange to comprehend how you can defend a relatively young institution you don't know and that you have no personal connection to. It feels rather abstract to believe in a concept (of a unified Europe) that in its current immobile and blown-up materialization only seems to serve itself with a massive bureaucratic apparatus and that breeds distrust as well as corruption, providing the ground for anti-democratic decisions based on massive corporate influence, driven by a few leaders in the ring.

On the whole, the attitude reminds me of radical beliefs you'll usually find in the religious sector. To me, that's scary.

I don't disagree. But (as I've said on here repeatedly), berating people and telling them to "get over it" isn't going to convince people to work together. It's daft and self defeating.

[GaelicFox]

You have to feel for the couple of million Brits that live in the EU , many are old and maybe receiving Benifits or medical cards

Here is an extract from a piece in ireland

"According to the most recent Department of Social Protection figures there are 122,000 UK-born residents who now face uncertainty over welfare benefits they receive in ireland - this is more than half of all British people living in Ireland"

Those people might now actually have to move back to UK because EU Benifits rights don't cover them anymore.

You wonder how many there are of these else where !

[MrKåmark]

I am disappointed with the outcome along with half the nation, my thoughts are that if the leave campaign put down a strategy or an outline of what's next it would put people's minds at rest.

DC leaving has caused even more panic, even though it should keep boris or farage out of number 10

I think some wise calming words from parliament would do wonders for the nations morale.

Time to start buying British, does anyone know where I can find an English ikea?

I am disappointed with the outcome along with half the nation, my thoughts are that if the leave campaign put down a strategy or an outline of what's next it would put people's minds at rest.

DC leaving has caused even more panic, even though it should keep boris or farage out of number 10

I think some wise calming words from parliament would do wonders for the nations morale.

Time to start buying British, does anyone know where I can find an English ikea?

[GaelicFox]

Can't stand this meme, "colonises half the world, complains of immigration"

1. We still need immigration. The vote was a referendum on the EU not on immigration (as much as people want to make it out as such).

2. The colonies got independence, we are getting ours now.

Someone else has posted about how the EU is an important post world war 2 pillar keeping Europe from dangerous nationalism. I had to point out it is very post war as it was established in 1993!

The EEC was a magnificent event , free trade and guaranteed peace

The EU was and is a mess and needs to be reformed back to focus just on trade and guaranteed peace

Free movement is a joke , and needs limiting

I still think there will be renegotiations and a 2nd referendum on accepting the outcome of those renegotiations

The euro is likely to really struggle , the Piiigs countries are all in trouble still and Brexit is likely to turn the heat up

We are without a leader , no mandate , no plan , not options and not a fecking clue what to do

And the longer we don't enact the article , the more it looks like chaos is on its way

[GaelicFox]

I am disappointed with the outcome along with half the nation, my thoughts are that if the leave campaign put down a strategy or an outline of what's next it would put people's minds at rest.

DC leaving has caused even more panic, even though it should keep boris or farage out of number 10

I think some wise calming words from parliament would do wonders for the nations morale.

Time to start buying British, does anyone know where I can find an English ikea?

I am disappointed with the outcome along with half the nation, my thoughts are that if the leave campaign put down a strategy or an outline of what's next it would put people's minds at rest.

DC leaving has caused even more panic, even though it should keep boris or farage out of number 10

I think some wise calming words from parliament would do wonders for the nations morale.

Time to start buying British, does anyone know where I can find an English ikea?

I'm selling some nice English Guinness

[The Guvnor]

The nation has made it's choice so time to move on now with a strong pro Brexit leader and for me there is only one candidate, Andrea Leadsom, she came across extremely well in the Brexit debates and I think she would be perfect to move us forward. 

[johnny the fox]

The nation has made it's choice so time to move on now with a strong pro Brexit leader and for me there is only one candidate, Andrea Leadsom, she came across extremely well in the Brexit debates and I think she would be perfect to move us forward. 

that's a good shout to be fair.. she has been very impressive ..

[Donut]

I dont care as long as some fvcker will just come out and say how the brexit government will run things.

[Webbo]

I don't disagree. But (as I've said on here repeatedly), berating people and telling them to "get over it" isn't going to convince people to work together. It's daft and self defeating.

If the result had gone the other way there would have been more gloating and exactly the same get over it comments.