Brexit Discussion Thread.

[Guest MattP]

People seriously think a 1.4million majority would be overturned in a week?

We're going from anger to delusion now.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Well that is kinda the point I guess. The meme doesn't work at all in relation to the referendum. Yet it has cropped up numerous times on my feed as people use it to object to our exit.

It shows the problem with politics in this country; in which a two party, first past the post system leaders to black and white, i'm right - you're wrong kind of politics. People become too invested in being on a side, rather than debate the merits and conceded weaknesses of a position.

It's also very difficult in our system to get a broad enough range of views and more importantly, expertise in policy areas to come up with a defined long term plan for how to move this country forward for everyone. That's probably the bigger change in the political landscape that this country needed, proportional representation so more people felt they had someone speaking for them in decision making.

Sadly, any move to do move this way in the short term is unlikely given the decades of work that will be required to untangle ourselves from the EU.

[Merging Cultures]

The difference is that you are in Africa and not as directly affected as those of us in Europe.

I'm cool and will sort out whatever I need to but I've heard a lot of the Spanish retirees panicking about their medical insurance - which is covered at the moment and an old nearly dead guy from near here in France was telling me how his pension took a 10% smack this week, worrying him enough to push him closer to death.

Fair enough. One would assume, the Govt. will look after their own. The insurance will still work and not much will change.

Unfortunately, the market fluctuates all the time. Good news for the old boy, stocks are up for the week and sterling is only at a 7 year low and will increase. It was just arseholes making money off speculation. Happens all the time and will happen again.

In Africa our main client is pretty much China, so we've been in the shit for a bit now. Europe is definitely not the big player it used to be.

[lifted*fox]

Leave voters got mugged off anyway - you'll all realise that soon enough. There's nobody in government who is willing to push the button and activate Article 50. That's why Farage has been excluded from the committee drawing up the exit deal with the EU - because they're not going to leave the EU and he would have been a threat to negotiations with his itchy little trigger finger hovering over the red button. You should all head down to the shops and pick up your pitchforks and torches because you're going to need those for the riots that inevitably happen when you all realise you've been sold a lie. 

[Guest]

People seriously think a 1.4million majority would be overturned in a week?

We're going from anger to delusion now.

 

I think it's all been delusional so really no change of play.

 

Do you see what I was saying about the uninformed now?

[GaelicFox]

Leave voters got mugged off anyway - you'll all realise that soon enough. There's nobody in government who is willing to push the button and activate Article 50. That's why Farage has been excluded from the committee drawing up the exit deal with the EU - because they're not going to leave the EU and he would have been a threat to negotiations with his itchy little trigger finger hovering over the red button. You should all head down to the shops and pick up your pitchforks and torches because you're going to need those for the riots that inevitably happen when you all realise you've been sold a lie.

Bonkers

But ohh so true

[Merging Cultures]

It shows the problem with politics in this country; in which a two party, first past the post system leaders to black and white, i'm right - you're wrong kind of politics. People become too invested in being on a side, rather than debate the merits and conceded weaknesses of a position.

It's also very difficult in our system to get a broad enough range of views and more importantly, expertise in policy areas to come up with a defined long term plan for how to move this country forward for everyone. That's probably the bigger change in the political landscape that this country needed, proportional representation so more people felt they had someone speaking for them in decision making.

Sadly, any move to do move this way in the short term is unlikely given the decades of work that will be required to untangle ourselves from the EU.

Difficult with an 'in/out' vote to get nuance.

Fptp works. It's easy to understand and gives government a mandate. Things get done.

[lifted*fox]

The result can, and must, be overlooked.  
 
The grounds for this is that the result was by no means conclusive.  It was a very narrow majority, and it was not unanimous across the United Kingdom.
 
Scotland wants to remain. As does Northern Ireland. A four percent overall majority is not enough to override the concerns of Scotland and Northern Ireland and break up the United Kingdom.
  
The UK now needs a bold leader with a vision to acknowledge and reject the result of the vote, taking into account the broader interests of the United Kingdom as a whole.  The result of this referendum, if acted on, will break up the United Kingdom, but it was not a referendum on that, and therefore gives no mandate for that outcome.  The UK remaining together is more important than the membership of the EU.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Lads who is going to lead the negotiations ?

David Cameron is one very very smart cookie !

Some would say if he was so smart, he wouldn't have got himself in this position in the first place. Personally I think he's been sensible in the event, but it was clear to most who understand politics before the referendum that a loss would result in him losing his job.

[Guest]

It shows the problem with politics in this country; in which a two party, first past the post system leaders to black and white, i'm right - you're wrong kind of politics. People become too invested in being on a side, rather than debate the merits and conceded weaknesses of a position.

It's also very difficult in our system to get a broad enough range of views and more importantly, expertise in policy areas to come up with a defined long term plan for how to move this country forward for everyone. That's probably the bigger change in the political landscape that this country needed, proportional representation so more people felt they had someone speaking for them in decision making.

Sadly, any move to do move this way in the short term is unlikely given the decades of work that will be required to untangle ourselves from the EU.

 

Exactly.

 

Confluent politics instead of conflictual.

 

I thought Corbyn was aiming for that when he came in.

 

We get nowhere fighting better to find acceptable agreement and help everyone in our country.

[Guest MattP]

I'm astounded at some of the stuff I'm reading, if parliament did reject the vote the 17 million should burn it to the ground.

It should already have been dissolved on the basis of how out of touch it is with the people on such a crucial issue.

[The Guvnor]

Great post.

 

 

In order to better reply to your comments could you tell me your age (or age range) please.

 

 

People (remainers) asked the leave campaign what there plan was for after an exit and the reply was that they were scare mongering. I would've thought that voters would have understood this and therefore the exiters have voted for not having a plan is better than the status quo.

 

 

People don't think that voting makes any difference and I can understand their feelings having watched the last few elections national and local in the UK from afar. A new breed of Politicians who work for the populous instead of themselves is needed.

 

 

Great post.

 

 

In order to better reply to your comments could you tell me your age (or age range) please.

 

 

People (remainers) asked the leave campaign what there plan was for after an exit and the reply was that they were scare mongering. I would've thought that voters would have understood this and therefore the exiters have voted for not having a plan is better than the status quo.

 

 

People don't think that voting makes any difference and I can understand their feelings having watched the last few elections national and local in the UK from afar. A new breed of Politicians who work for the populous instead of themselves is needed.

 

They did ask questions on both sides, Cameron and Osborne were asked what their plans were and they were not acceptable how can you move forward with anything when there is total intransigence from the EU for Cameron to keep repeating a safer stronger REFORMED Europe, reform to pacify the majority in this country was never going to happen and that is that is why we voted to leave he was defending the indefensible.

[Guest]

Fair enough. One would assume, the Govt. will look after their own. The insurance will still work and not much will change.

Unfortunately, the market fluctuates all the time. Good news for the old boy, stocks are up for the week and sterling is only at a 7 year low and will increase. It was just arseholes making money off speculation. Happens all the time and will happen again.

In Africa our main client is pretty much China, so we've been in the shit for a bit now. Europe is definitely not the big player it used to be.

 

It's fear of the unknown of course.

 

There could easily be changes in medical insurance. At the moment you are covered by the country that you are in but that has to change. Will the UK be happy to pay the medical bills of British citizens living in France, Spain etc..? I'm not so sure they will. After all they weren't happy to let me vote in the referendum so why would they want to pay my medical costs.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Difficult with an 'in/out' vote to get nuance.

Fptp works. It's easy to understand and gives government a mandate. Things get done.

Things get done, but often for a minority interest and whichever party leads, there's always a desire to put its 'stamp' on key services, meaning schools and hospitals are always in flux.

Had there been a 15-25 year vision that established structures in these and was kept, they would benefit massively. As it is, they never get to the improvement bit on the bell curve before another radical change comes in.

[GaelicFox]

Some would say if he was so smart, he wouldn't have got himself in this position in the first place. Personally I think he's been sensible in the event, but it was clear to most who understand politics before the referendum that a loss would result in him losing his job.

Yes that was a given

The smart bit was telling Boris and Gove to Fcuk off when they asked him to lead the negotiations

History will be very kind to DC !

Very kind

[The Doctor]

The result can, and must, be overlooked.  

 

The grounds for this is that the result was by no means conclusive.  It was a very narrow majority, and it was not unanimous across the United Kingdom.

 

Scotland wants to remain. As does Northern Ireland. A four percent overall majority is not enough to override the concerns of Scotland and Northern Ireland and break up the United Kingdom.

  

The UK now needs a bold leader with a vision to acknowledge and reject the result of the vote, taking into account the broader interests of the United Kingdom as a whole.  The result of this referendum, if acted on, will break up the United Kingdom, but it was not a referendum on that, and therefore gives no mandate for that outcome.  The UK remaining together is more important than the membership of the EU.

 

Any party that decides not to invoke article 50 after this will see their chances of getting into power disappear for a generation. We've lost, and it's only when the full consequences of this have been realised - that the UK has suffered a brain drain due to the loss of EU funding which has for so long propped up the criminal under-investment in research in this country, and the financial hub is under threat due to the loss of passporting rights (You may have union jack underpants but when it comes to businesses, access to 500m will outweigh access to 60m) - will the leave campaign realise they've lost too.

[Merging Cultures]

It's fear of the unknown of course.

There could easily be changes in medical insurance. At the moment you are covered by the country that you are in but that has to change. Will the UK be happy to pay the medical bills of British citizens living in France, Spain etc..? I'm not so sure they will. After all they weren't happy to let me vote in the referendum so why would they want to pay my medical costs.

You couldnt vote in the referendum? I got my postal vote (too late).

Many places require insurance for travel, it may become the same for living in a place too. Not a terrible thing, unless you are on limited means obviously. I do think the Government will sort out the health aspect. It may be cheaper to treat someone in Spain than the UK for instance.

[lifted*fox]

Cameron gave up his position to save the United Kingdom and retain it's place in the EU. Everyone will realise that eventually. He was in the wrong by giving the people a referendum in the first place but he rectified that by resigning and putting the the loaded gun into the hands of people too scared to use it. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I'm astounded at some of the stuff I'm reading, if parliament did reject the vote the 17 million should burn it to the ground.

It should already have been dissolved on the basis of how out of touch it is with the people on such a crucial issue.

What if the Scottish Parliment vetoed the position? There is a suggestion any UK Parliment decision on this also needs the consent of Holyrood.

I also wonder if this is too contrived, but maybe England and Wales easiest exit would be to effectively give Scotland it's place in the EU.

[GaelicFox]

Cameron gave up his position to save the United Kingdom and retain it's place in the EU. Everyone will realise that eventually. He was in the wrong by giving the people a referendum in the first place but he rectified that by resigning and putting the the loaded gun into the hands of people too scared to use it.

He had to give it ....his party demanded it

Now Boris and Gove have gone missing !!!

The loaded gun scares them to even talk about it

[lifted*fox]

Any party that decides not to invoke article 50 after this will see their chances of getting into power disappear for a generation.

 

Well, not really because there's still 48% of the population behind them not to mention Scotland and Northern Ireland as well. It wasn't a majority win. There's practically 1 in every 2 people pissed off either way. 

[Guest]

Leave voters got mugged off anyway - you'll all realise that soon enough. There's nobody in government who is willing to push the button and activate Article 50. That's why Farage has been excluded from the committee drawing up the exit deal with the EU - because they're not going to leave the EU and he would have been a threat to negotiations with his itchy little trigger finger hovering over the red button. You should all head down to the shops and pick up your pitchforks and torches because you're going to need those for the riots that inevitably happen when you all realise you've been sold a lie. 

 

That is not the reason that article 50 hasn't been invoked. It will be invoked but Cameron is not stupid enough to be the one to do it. Boris will have to live with the shit he's stirred. The delay is partly that and partly a sensible move whilst the new unelected leader of the country and fellow brexiter cabinet members create a plan to tackle the moster they have birthed. Don't be an ostrich. the UK is on it's way out of the EU - I now hope that it has a beneficial effect on changes within the EU. Junker to be exterminated at the top of the list.

 

Difficult with an 'in/out' vote to get nuance.

Fptp works. It's easy to understand and gives government a mandate. Things get done.

 

Thinks get done in dictatorships but like fptp they are not done to the benefit of all of the population. PR and consensual politics takes a lot more time and effort but in the end should benefit the vaste majority. Of course the UK would only **** that up.

 

 

Some would say if he was so smart, he wouldn't have got himself in this position in the first place. Personally I think he's been sensible in the event, but it was clear to most who understand politics before the referendum that a loss would result in him losing his job.

 

I think he was ready to call it quits. He wasn't going to stand again anyway and this way he can go on his own terms and blame whoever comes next for the shitstorm.

[GaelicFox]

What if the Scottish Parliment vetoed the position? There is a suggestion any UK Parliment decision on this also needs the consent of Holyrood.

I also wonder if this is too contrived, but maybe England and Wales easiest exit would be to effectively give Scotland it's place in the EU.

It's seems everyone is resigned to the fact there are MAJOR twists to come in this story

The markets settled way too quickly !

[Guest MattP]

It wasn't a majority win?

Now we're going from delusion to just outright fantasy.

[lifted*fox]

That is not the reason that article 50 hasn't been invoked. It will be invoked but Cameron is not stupid enough to be the one to do it. Boris will have to live with the shit he's stirred. The delay is partly that and partly a sensible move whilst the new unelected leader of the country and fellow brexiter cabinet members create a plan to tackle the moster they have birthed. Don't be an ostrich. the UK is on it's way out of the EU - I now hope that it has a beneficial effect on changes within the EU.

 

We'll see.