Brexit Discussion Thread.

[Great Boos Up]

I'll see what I can do.

Seriously though, are you saying that's too much or not enough?

One tax paid pound out of three! A third of all tax is given in benefits. Why work? No wonder we hire cheap labour, now stop moaning and get it sorted please. If you can do that I'll hide article 50 where no one can find it.

[jammie82uk]

I'm pretty happy to agree, as a white person, that there is a huge population of white people in Britain that are a big problem tbh.

 

Whist everyone is looking outwards and blaming the immigrants for their problems they'd do well to take a little look closer to home. 

 

Plenty of white people in this country who make a rod for their own back, constantly bemoaning a lack of opportunities when actually they're just lazy self-entitled ****s. 

 

At least the immigrants can be bothered to get off their backsides and sail halfway around the globe for a chance at a better life.

 

You could stick a pot of free, reserved gold at the end of a 4 hour journey and there's plenty of British people who'd choose to sit on the sofa watching Love Island or some shit than get of their arse to go fetch it. 

 

Tell me I'm wrong. 

 

(Oh and just for balance there's plenty of corrupt well-to-do white people who are just as much of a problem as well.) 

 

what on earth are you on about out of all the dribble you have spouted the last couple of days this is certainly up there with the worse

[Thracian]

I suggest a general election might happen before we trigger that article

 

 

 

A General Election? The vote offered a clear mandate...and with as strong a voice from as many people who might be expected to vote Labour or UKIP as would vote Conservative.

 

I've said several times that the British Labour Party is now so far detached from the thinking of British working people, that it needs to be left to its own devices and another party evolve to see that the faltering voice of those people is heard again and worthy people found to help fight their corner.

 

Ignored for so long and treated with such contempt in their own land, it is hardly surprising they've said "enough".  

[lifted*fox]

what on earth are you on about out of all the dribble you have spouted the last couple of days this is certainly up there with the worse

What exactly are you struggling to understand? To put that post in simple terms for you - before blaming immigration for everything why don't some of the lazy English people take a look at their own failings in life?

I thought that was pretty clear but maybe that's made it easier for you.

[jammie82uk]

He's not currently PM but he led the Leave campaign for the his party and he's increasingly looking like he'll be the next PM. 

 

He really should have done some due-diligence and got some sort of idea of what his plan of action was to be so he could at least pretend to know what day it is, instead of looking like the clueless buffoon he really is. 

 

If he gets within an inch of the PM job then our country will be a complete laughing stock - the guy is a joke on all levels. 

 

David Cameron is the joke the arrogance of the man is astounding was so adamant that he was going to win, his only plan B was to resign and not do the job he was appointed to do

[Dodgy Bob]

Unfortunately yes.

The current PM has said it'll be activated by the next PM, probably around October. All this faux panic and outrage is pathetic tbh.

Have you read Boris' article in the telegraph? In it he says "the only change" will be that Britain doesn't have to comply with some EU legislation. This is a far cry from the statements he made prior to the referendum. It's nothing to do with him not having any power. He didn't have any power before the referendum and was perfectly capable of laying out his grand vision then, and he's doing exactly the same now, only it has been considerably watered down.

The issue here is that Boris implied various promises to the British people prior to the referendum. Many people voted based on those promises. Now, just a few days later, he has completely changed his tune. If you can't see the problem with that, then all I can say is that there's none so blind as those who will not see. It is either a massive, lightning quick u-turn, or he was deceiving voters all along.

[jammie82uk]

What exactly are you struggling to understand? To put that post in simple terms for you - before blaming immigration for everything why don't some of the lazy English people take a look at their own failings in life?

I thought that was pretty clear but maybe that's made it easier for you.

 

no i understood it just not sure why you purposely singled out white people being the problem 

[lifted*fox]

no i understood it just not sure why you purposely singled out white people being the problem

Come on man, wake up, it's not hard to grasp. I'm offering up an opinion that whilst there are shit tons of white people currently acting with contempt towards their immigrant neighbours for taking their money / jobs, etc. - perhaps they should examine their own lives and figure out why they're in that position. I know plenty of people who blame immigrants for all their problems yet they didn't bother at school, can't be bothered to start in a shit job and work their way up and basically think everything should be handed to them.

So why aren't they holding themselves accountable for their shitty lives instead of blaming migrants who come here and put the effort in?

Surely, surely that makes sense?

[Donut]

In light of Boris' comments, leave voters have voted for what exactly?

[Mark_w]

Have you read Boris' article in the telegraph? In it he says "the only change" will be that Britain doesn't have to comply with some EU legislation. This is a far cry from the statements he made prior to the referendum. It's nothing to do with him not having any power. He didn't have any power before the referendum and was perfectly capable of laying out his grand vision then, and he's doing exactly the same now, only it has been considerably watered down.

The issue here is that Boris implied various promises to the British people prior to the referendum. Many people voted based on those promises. Now, just a few days later, he has completely changed his tune. If you can't see the problem with that, then all I can say is that there's none so blind as those who will not see. It is either a massive, lightning quick u-turn, or he was deceiving voters all along.

 

I think the most worrying thing is that a massive chunk of the electorate both believe Boris Johnson means what he says and trust that he's right. I'm not sure how that's happened.

[Donut]

Come on man, wake up, it's not hard to grasp. I'm offering up an opinion that whilst there are shit tons of white people currently acting with contempt towards their immigrant neighbours for taking their money / jobs, etc. - perhaps they should examine their own lives and figure out why they're in that position. I know plenty of people who blame immigrants for all their problems yet they didn't bother at school, can't be bothered to start in a shit job and work their way up and basically think everything should be handed to them.

So why aren't they holding themselves accountable for their shitty lives instead of blaming migrants who come here and put the effort in?

Surely, surely that makes sense?

 

Id go even further as to say migrants come here and often MAKE their own jobs. Alright, they arent the next Duncan Bannatyne but they open their own businesses in a fair few cases.

 

In my experience of the NHS, its migration that keeps it existing, not keeps it struggling.

 

And those who say immigrants dont integrate into society, why should they when they know full well there are quite a few people in these comunities who resent and actively oppose them being there anyway?

[jammie82uk]

Come on man, wake up, it's not hard to grasp. I'm offering up an opinion that whilst there are shit tons of white people currently acting with contempt towards their immigrant neighbours for taking their money / jobs, etc. - perhaps they should examine their own lives and figure out why they're in that position. I know plenty of people who blame immigrants for all their problems yet they didn't bother at school, can't be bothered to start in a shit job and work their way up and basically think everything should be handed to them.

So why aren't they holding themselves accountable for their shitty lives instead of blaming migrants who come here and put the effort in?

Surely, surely that makes sense?

 

i get where your coming from i really do, but are British people only white? or is it only the lazy British people that are white?

[jammie82uk]

In light of Boris' comments, leave voters have voted for what exactly?

 

surely that is apparent by now

[lifted*fox]

Dude, if you're going to be pedantic about it - I'm talking about British natives, who will be predominantly white, but yes I'm sure there's some British born Asian, Black and other ethnicity people who also didn't do their best to make their own way up the ladder in life and choose to blame immigrants as well.

I hope we're on the same page now and it doesn't appear to be the drivel you first assumed it to be.

[Donut]

surely that is apparent by now

 

The possibility of a blundering idiot as Prime Minister that wants to keep everything basically the same except getting rid of a few EU laws no one gave a shite about anyway?

[Vardinio'sCat]

 Wow, this leaving the EU thing is going really well. 

 

David Cameron, what a fantastic PM he wasn't...

[Royston.]

Id go even further as to say migrants come here and often MAKE their own jobs. Alright, they arent the next Duncan Bannatyne but they open their own car washes in a fair few cases.

 

In my experience of the NHS, its migration that keeps it existing, not keeps it struggling.

 

And those who say immigrants dont integrate into society, why should they when they know full well there are quite a few people in these comunities who resent and actively oppose them being there anyway?

[Donut]

 

Id go even further as to say migrants come here and often MAKE their own jobs. Alright, they arent the next Duncan Bannatyne but they open their own car washes in a fair few cases.

 

In my experience of the NHS, its migration that keeps it existing, not keeps it struggling.

 

And those who say immigrants dont integrate into society, why should they when they know full well there are quite a few people in these comunities who resent and actively oppose them being there anyway?

 

 

Well, what stopped a few Brits opening a car wash before some immigrants did?

[theessexfox]

It was clear there was scaremongering, empty promises and empty rhetoric in the campaign... but seeing some of the brazen, unapologetic U-turns from politicians on both sides is pretty shameful for me. Deliberately misleading the electorate and making no apologies for it should not be what politics is about. 

[Voll Blau]

People going on about Remain voters "whingeing" do realise it's possible for some of us to feel pissed off on behalf of friends, relatives etc who voted Leave and have had the pledges that convinced them to do so reneged upon within HOURS of the result's announcement, right? Surely there are Leave voters out there who feel equally pissed off about this?

[Strokes]

People going on about Remain voters "whingeing" do realise it's possible for some of us to feel pissed off on behalf of friends, relatives etc who voted Leave and have had the pledges that convinced them to do so reneged upon within HOURS of the result's announcement, right? Surely there are Leave voters out there who feel equally pissed off about this?

What has been reneged then?

[Alf Bentley]

It was clear there was scaremongering, empty promises and empty rhetoric in the campaign... but seeing some of the brazen, unapologetic U-turns from politicians on both sides is pretty shameful for me. Deliberately misleading the electorate and making no apologies for it should not be what politics is about. 

 

 

Completely agree, Essex.

 

Though some of the "U-turns" relate to the different priorities of the official (mainly Tory) Vote Leave campaign and the separate, Farage-led UKIP campaign.

 

It was Vote Leave (Boris, Gove & co) who repeatedly told the lie about redirecting £350m per week of EU contributions to the NHS. So, Farage isn't actually doing a U-turn by disowning that pledge - it was never his pledge.

In contrast, it was Farage who initially went big on immigration....though the official Vote Leave bunch were quite happy to go along with it, almost exclusively in the last fortnight, as they saw the polls turn in their favour.

 

I reckon we might see the 2 Brexit camps (Tories & UKIP) diverge along those lines again in due course. Because I really cannot see the EU doing a deal that allows the UK to opt out of free movement AND to stay in the single market - though many Brexit people seem to assume they will.

 

If I'm right, I can imagine the Tories prioritising trade relationships/single market and selling ex-Lab voters motivated by immigration down the river. Meanwhile, UKIP will oppose them and prioritise immigration. After all, the Tories don't really care too much about abandoned ex-Labour voters in deindustrialised areas with Labour MPs - whereas UKIP stands to benefit by attracting the votes of such people, who are disillusioned at their lives and hostile to "the elite" (Tory and Labour alike).

[Alf Bentley]

What has been reneged then?

 

 

Basically...

- Farage has admitted that the "350m per week extra to the NHS" pledge of the official Vote Leave campaign is bollocks

- IDS has admitted that the Tories won't necessarily reduce immigration very much any time soon, just "control it better" (i.e. no commitment to a reduction, just more power over which immigrants arrive)

 

A major reduction in immigration and the redirection of "British money" from EU contributions to the NHS clearly motivated some people (possibly a lot of people) to vote Brexit....there are going to be a lot of very disillusioned, angry people a couple of years down the line.

[Strokes]

Completely agree, Essex.

 

Though some of the "U-turns" relate to the different priorities of the official (mainly Tory) Vote Leave campaign and the separate, Farage-led UKIP campaign.

 

It was Vote Leave (Boris, Gove & co) who repeatedly told the lie about redirecting £350m per week of EU contributions to the NHS. So, Farage isn't actually doing a U-turn by disowning that pledge - it was never his pledge.

In contrast, it was Farage who initially went big on immigration....though the official Vote Leave bunch were quite happy to go along with it, almost exclusively in the last fortnight, as they saw the polls turn in their favour.

 

I reckon we might see the 2 Brexit camps (Tories & UKIP) diverge along those lines again in due course. Because I really cannot see the EU doing a deal that allows the UK to opt out of free movement AND to stay in the single market - though many Brexit people seem to assume they will.

 

If I'm right, I can imagine the Tories prioritising trade relationships/single market and selling ex-Lab voters motivated by immigration down the river. Meanwhile, UKIP will oppose them and prioritise immigration. After all, the Tories don't really care too much about abandoned ex-Labour voters in deindustrialised areas with Labour MPs - whereas UKIP stands to benefit by attracting the votes of such people, who are disillusioned at their lives and hostile to "the elite" (Tory and Labour alike).

I'm not sure why people don't understand, they were not pledges. It wasn't an election for power, they were nothing more than examples of what could be achieved outside of the EU. The pledges will come with elections, you cannot implement things without the power to do so.

[Strokes]

Basically...

- Farage has admitted that the "350m per week extra to the NHS" pledge of the official Vote Leave campaign is bollocks

- IDS has admitted that the Tories won't necessarily reduce immigration very much any time soon, just "control it better" (i.e. no commitment to a reduction, just more power over which immigrants arrive)

 

A major reduction in immigration and the redirection of "British money" from EU contributions to the NHS clearly motivated some people (possibly a lot of people) to vote Brexit....there are going to be a lot of very disillusioned, angry people a couple of years down the line.

You can't reduce immigration anytime soon, we all know it will take at least 2 years to detach ourselves from Brussels and until then we have to abide by the freedom of movement act. Then there will have to be systems put in place, it could take quite some time. The NHS was laughed at from the start, widely discredited, isn't Farages example to rebuff and anyone voting on that alone I have no time for.