Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

That I wouldn't have had a problem with - at least they would have given it some thought.

 

They literally voted on the strength of the millions of Turks lie, and their problem with that was that they are/were unabashed racists.

All got to have a hobby I suppose.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

I'm not of an age to really appreciate Thatcher's Britain... I just grew up with the concequences. And true, with it so easy to see a sample range of divided opinions via somewhere as unscientific as twitter or an online forum, maybe their's a visuality thing to it? 

 

But then again... I don't recall it being like this through the late 90's / early 00's? 

Hard times always cause societal problems. It's how hitler came to hoodwink germany into his twisted plan, by blaming the jews for the countries economic difficulties. It's a little worrying that the same blame of foreigners appeared to be a factor in brexit. Would it have happened if the country were doing as well as it had been a decade earlier? The same can be said of the election of trump. I'm obviously not saying brexit or trump are going to lead to anything like 1930s/40s germany, but i don't like that those parallels are there. We were supposed to have learnt from the german experience. 

 

Those of you who voted brexit - i feel like I'm going to need to add that I'm genuinally not trying to imply anything about brexit voters by this comment - just the direction of debate around immigration at a difficult economic time. I do recognise that there are genuine issues around immigration. 

Edited 1 July 2017 by Guest

[Mike Oxlong]

8 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

I'm the same.

I find myself avoiding argument and conflict on here much more than I do in real life (which is odd)

There's a few nasty gits on here that I'd much rather not engage in debate with.

Maybe I should just use the ignore function on them...

Just realised after all this time that your profile pic is the real Muzzy and actually not James Blunt.

 

 

Thinking that that warbling twat was your idol was the only thing that worried me about you

 

 

 

[Guest MattP]

On a serious point is this now the new normal? The opposition leader and supporters take to the streets to force an elected government from office?

 

Have we become this?

Edited 1 July 2017 by MattP

[Buce]

18 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

I'm the same.

I find myself avoiding argument and conflict on here much more than I do in real life (which is odd)

There's a few nasty gits on here that I'd much rather not engage in debate with.

Maybe I should just use the ignore function on them...

 

Yep, and they're all keyboard warriors, hiding behind the safety of the internet.

 

Not one of them would say it to anyone's face.

[Izzy]

6 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Just realised after all this time that your profile pic is the real Muzzy and actually not James Blunt.

 

 

Thinking that that warbling twat was your idol was the only thing that worried me about you

 

 

 

And I'm not joking when I say it was only recently that I realised your username is a funny way of saying My Cock Is Long.

I genuinely thought your name is Mike and you sometimes refer to your missus as 'Mrs O' 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

On a serious point is this now the new normal? The opposition leader and supporters take to the streets to force an elected government from office?

 

Have we become this?

Have to be honest i do find it a bit strange. Surely you just defeat the government in a few votes snd job done. I do wonder whether they realise their window of opportunity is now, or the very near future. If the tories were sensible they'd find a new leader that is young and can talk on a level with the ordinary man to change to more centred policy. Its the one route that could save them - to completely break with current policies with a leader that can't be blamed for them (no i don't mean rees-mogg!)

Edited 1 July 2017 by Guest

[Buce]

Just now, Izzy Muzzett said:

And I'm not joking when I say it was only recently that I realised your username is a funny way of saying My Cock Is Long.

I genuinely thought your name is Mike and you sometimes refer to your missus as 'Mrs O' 

 

I knew that.

 

Honestly.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Have to be honest i do find it a bit strange. Surely you just defeat the government in a few votes snd job done. I do wonder whether they realise their window of opportunity is now, or the very near future. If the tories were sensible they'd find a new leader that is young and can talk on a level with the ordinary man to change to more centred policy. Its the one route that child save them - to completely break with current policies with a leader that can't be blamed for them (no i don't mean rees-mogg!)

 

I think they would have to be at least 18..

[Mike Oxlong]

5 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

And I'm not joking when I say it was only recently that I realised your username is a funny way of saying My Cock Is Long.

I genuinely thought your name is Mike and you sometimes refer to your missus as 'Mrs O' 

 

 

 

[Izzy]

6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I knew that.

 

Honestly.

There's a few funny user names on here that have passed me right by.

 

@Drew Peacock made me chuckle earlier.

 

Anyways, back to the serious business of politics   

[Webbo]

When I was on Talkingballs I was "Major I Swarter. " I don't think many people got that either.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

There's a few funny user names on here that have passed me right by.

 

@Drew Peacock made me chuckle earlier.

 

Anyways, back to the serious business of politics   

 

 

I haven't seen that one.

 

That could be an interesting thread - What made you choose your username?

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

When I was on Talkingballs I was "Major I Swarter. " I don't think many people got that either.

 

I still don't.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

I still don't.

Made your eyes water. It didn't get many laughs

[Buce]

4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Made your eyes water. It didn't get many laughs

 

Oh, I see - I thought the upper-case 'i' was a lower-case 'L'.

 

I get it now

[DJ Barry Hammond]

 

You're welcome you two 

Edited 1 July 2017 by DJ Barry Hammond

[Buce]

 

Opinium poll in tomorrow's Observer has Labour 6 points ahead:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/01/over-60-of-voters-view-theresa-may-as-pm-negatively-poll

 

Theresa May has suffered a startling decline in popularity since last month’s general election with a new opinion poll showing 61% of voters now view her in a more negative light than they did when the electorate denied her an overall majority on 8 June.

The extraordinary transformation in the prime minister’s ratings, which were sky high in early April after she called the snap election, has been accompanied by a rise in public respect for Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, according to a new Opinium survey for the Observer.

Corbyn’s reinvigorated party is now on 45%, six points ahead of the Tories (on 39%), which if replicated in a general election would put Corbyn in a strong position to enter Downing Street as prime minister if one was called in the near future

 

On 9 April, May’s approval rating stood at an impressive +21% (where the percentage of those who disapprove of her leadership is subtracted from the number who approve) while that for Corbyn had sunk to -35%.

In an extraordinary turnaround, May’s rating is now at -20% (with 31% approving her leadership and 51% disapproving) while Corbyn’s has risen to +4% with more approving of his stewardship of Labour (42%) than disapproving (38%).

May’s struggle to form a coalition with the Democratic Unionist party and her much criticised immediate response to the Grenfell Tower disaster in west London, appear to have contributed to her post-election slump.

By contrast a newly confident Corbyn was seen as having reacted better to the tragedy and has enjoyed adulation from Labour supporters and young people, including at last weekend’s Glastonbury festival.

May and Corbyn are now neck and neck when voters are asked who they believe would make the best prime minister, with 35% saying May and 34% Corbyn.

On Brexit, 41% now disapprove of the way May is handling the negotiations on leaving the EU, against 32% who approve. Some 47% of those who backed leaving the EU approve of her handling of Brexit against 27% who disapprove, while 56% of remainers disapprove and only 21% approve.

While 43% support the way Corbyn reacted to the Grenfell Tower, 23% do not, and just 22% approve of May’s reaction, against 50% who are critical.

Robert Ford, professor of political science at the University of Manchester said: “This new poll suggests that the remarkable swing in political fortunes which began in the general election campaign has continued in the weeks after the vote. Theresa May’s personal ratings have collapsed further, while Jeremy Corbyn’s have surged.

“There have been a few occasions when the public have turned rapidly against a prime minister, for example Gordon Brown’s collapse in support in the autumn of 2007, when Vince Cable noted his “remarkable transformation ... from Stalin to Mr Bean.

 

Ford said that plunging numbers for a PM while an opposition leader surged in popularity was a rare occurrence.

“While this will further increase the pressures on Theresa May, many Conservatives will be eager to avoid another election now they are trailing Labour in the polls.

“Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn’s position in the party, in serious doubt just a few weeks ago, now looks unassailable. He is recording net positive personal ratings on a regular basis for the first time in his leadership, and Labour’s poll share of 45% is among the best the party has seen since the height of Tony Blair’s popularity.”

Edited 1 July 2017 by Buce

[Guest]

Tories in revolt over austerity. About bloody time. You just know they'll add a tax which affects the richest 5% to cover the costs!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/01/top-tories-revolt-against-may-public-spending

[Guest]

6 out of 10 Britons want to keep their EU citizenship. I can't be the only one thinking the world has gone mad.....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/01/poll-european-eu-rights-brexit

[Guest]

I might trigger a few people by posting this. I don't think it's really worth us getting into the discussion about 'how are you going to pay for it' as, let's be honest, we've been doing that one for weeks (and the Tories will son be offering a Labour-lite version of this anyway). The only question I raise is, does this look like a man who has anything other than doing the best for ordinary people in in mind? One thing the Tories have done really very well is to paint Corbyn and McDonnell as politicians that are hugely dangerous, and not just because of their policies and economics but more fundamentally because they apparently 'hate' the country. I just don't see it, I really don't. We haven't had a proper socialist government since the 1930s - imho it's time to try something different as neo-liberalism has failed, and failed badly. 

 

EDIT: Despite my first sentence, I actually hate it when people talk about 'triggered' or 'triggering' so I have to hang my head in shame really. Not changing it though.

Edited 1 July 2017 by Guest

[Nick]

On 30/06/2017 at 21:23, Webbo said:

Conservatives really are better looking, research says

 

A recently published study in the Journal of Public Economics concludes that the attractiveness of a candidate does correlate with their politics. They find that politicians on the right are more good looking in Europe, the United States and Australia.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/10/conservatives-really-are-better-looking-research-says/?utm_term=.c9c198bdf56e

 

Yeah but they're on about rich people from good stock Webbo not the aspiring middle class...

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Swan Lesta said:

Yeah but they're on about rich people from good stock Webbo not the aspiring middle class...

 

[Guest MattP]

6 hours ago, toddybad said:

I might trigger a few people by posting this. I don't think it's really worth us getting into the discussion about 'how are you going to pay for it' as, let's be honest, we've been doing that one for weeks (and the Tories will son be offering a Labour-lite version of this anyway). The only question I raise is, does this look like a man who has anything other than doing the best for ordinary people in in mind? One thing the Tories have done really very well is to paint Corbyn and McDonnell as politicians that are hugely dangerous, and not just because of their policies and economics but more fundamentally because they apparently 'hate' the country. I just don't see it, I really don't. We haven't had a proper socialist government since the 1930s - imho it's time to try something different as neo-liberalism has failed, and failed badly. 

 

EDIT: Despite my first sentence, I actually hate it when people talk about 'triggered' or 'triggering' so I have to hang my head in shame really. Not changing it though.

But he is dangerous, I'd imagine most people with a keen interest in politics remember the shouty, nasty, aggressive McDonnell long before his damascene conversation to softly spoken, apologetic nice guy as soon as he became shadow chancellor. 

 

Even forgetting the IRA stuff this is a man who called the 2010 London rioters "the best of our movement", he wanted to even lift a ban on the Tamil Tigers at one point, just two years ago he put his name to a motion that would disarm all police, something even the most left winger must realise is beyond insanity given the recent events we have seen in places like London Bridge. 

 

So no, I don't think he'd be good for ordinary people at all. I think he would be very, very bad for ordinary people. 

Edited 2 July 2017 by MattP

[Drew Peacock]

9 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

There's a few funny user names on here that have passed me right by.

 

@Drew Peacock made me chuckle earlier.

 

Anyways, back to the serious business of politics   

When I first joined on here @Mike Oxlong was the first to welcome me. He either came to brag, or out of sympathy. Still not sure which.

The funny thing is, this name actually exists. A Mr and Mrs Peacock actually called their son Drew. If you google it, about 8 down, the story is still online.

He must be about 13 now, if he's still alive and not been bullied to death. ?