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DJ Barry Hammond

Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

By DJ Barry Hammond, in General Chat

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, toddybad said:

He's talking about 2016 at the start. Let's see what the revised 2017 figures actually are before you get too excited.

 

And I'll still point to worsening public services, increased homelessness and food bank usage,  falling wages and record personal debt.

 

If the proceeds of growth aren't helping ordinary people then what's it for?

I'll happily have a grand with you the figures for 2017 will also end up being revised upwards. 

 

All part of the co-ordinated campaign to try and convince us the nation is doing worse than it actually is because of the vote. 

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'll happily have a grand with you the figures for 2017 will also end up being revised upwards. 

 

All part of the co-ordinated campaign to try and convince us the nation is doing worse than it actually is because of the vote. 

 

For a man who claims to have gambled away a six-figure sum, that's hardly reassuring. :)

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DJ Barry Hammond

DJ Barry Hammond

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Posted
10 hours ago, Webbo said:

I've been thinking all week that I ought to lock this thread tomorrow night until Wednesday morning. Does anyone have any objections?

 

Yes! 

 

Come 20:00, after we’ve all had a little snooze and eaten some leftovers and realising we’re a little bit bored, coming to this thread for a brief verbal dustup will be essential... in fact i’m not sure some would cope with this being temporary looked and left to go cold turkey.

 

Then again, even the biscuit world cup is having a day of rest of Christmas Day.

 

 

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Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'll happily have a grand with you the figures for 2017 will also end up being revised upwards. 

 

All part of the co-ordinated campaign to try and convince us the nation is doing worse than it actually is because of the vote. 

If the figures that currently show us bottom of the g7 don't get revised upwards it would be something of a surprise. How far will be interesting to see.

 

I notice you didn't deal with the country's fall into social decline or my question.

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Rogstanley

Rogstanley

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'll happily have a grand with you the figures for 2017 will also end up being revised upwards. 

Flesh the details of this bet out a bit and I'm tempted to take it on, especially given that some downward revisions have already been made.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/e354a930-7cdf-31f6-af4b-2b005c9f8f24

 

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'll happily have a grand with you the figures for 2017 will also end up being revised upwards. 

 

All part of the co-ordinated campaign to try and convince us the nation is doing worse than it actually is because of the vote. 

 

1 minute ago, Rogstanley said:

Flesh the details of this bet out a bit and I'm tempted to take it on, especially given that some downward revisions have already been made.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/e354a930-7cdf-31f6-af4b-2b005c9f8f24

 

 

You'll be needing someone to hold the money, guys.

 

I'll PM my PayPal details... :D

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Buce

Buce

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"Brexit may be worse than a Labour government" - Heseltine.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/26/a-labour-government-wouldnt-be-as-bad-as-brexit-claims-heseltine

 

Michael Heseltine, the Tory grandee and former deputy prime minister, has suggested a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn could be less damaging than Brexit.

The peer made the claim, which is remarkable for a senior Conservative, in an interview for the Limehouse podcast about liberal and EU politics, as he was pressed on how catastrophic he believes Brexit will be for the UK.

Heseltine, a longstanding pro-EU politician, signalled that he still views a Labour government as having a negative effect on the country, but said leaving the EU could be worse in the long term. He also suggested Labour would eventually turn against Brexit and the Conservatives would be “left holding the baby”, as leaving the EU grows more unpopular.

Asked what could happen under five years of a Corbyn government, he said: “Well, we have survived Labour governments before. Their damage tends to be short-term and capable of rectification. Brexit is not short-term and is not easily capable of rectification. There will be those who question whether the short-term pain justifies the avoidance of the long-term disaster.”

 

Heseltine argued public opinion was already beginning to move against Brexit and Labour would end up changing its current position to one in favour of the EU, which could put the Conservatives in trouble with their pro-remain voters.

“If you look at the polls there is probably a bigger majority against Brexit than the referendum secured but that, I think, will continue to happen and it will become more and more unpopular as people realise what it’s all about,” he said in the podcast, named after the declaration that gave rise to the Socal Democratic party (SDP), and hosted by activist William Porteous.

“When that happens, the Labour party will move, and the present government will be left holding the baby. But then you have got to realise the present government is supported by large numbers of people as opposed to Brexit as I am. How long will they remain within the tribe and loyal to the party?”

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The Conservative peer made clear that his views on the Labour leader had not changed, but argued the “most interesting thing about Jeremy Corbyn is that he is now considered to be a potential prime minister.

“People of my generation could never have anticipated that... He was always someone to the extreme of his party arguing causes for which there was virtually no support within his party. But such is the dynamic of Brexit that he is now seen as a potential prime minister,” he said.

Heseltine is one of a small band of pro-EU Conservatives, along with former chancellor Ken Clarke, who have argued that Brexit should not happen. On the Labour side, former prime minister Tony Blair is campaigning for an end to Brexit, while the Liberal Democrats are pushing for a second referendum.

 

As for how to stop Brexit, Heseltine said: “I think [a second referendum] would be a vehicle for ending Brexit, but personally I would rather parliament to do it either if this present parliament became hostile or because in an election the issue was rethought and a subsequent parliament did it. My preoccupation is ending Brexit: the means, well anything to hand.”

Clarke told another episode of the same podcast that he would “love to reverse the referendum if I thought we could, but I don’t think we can”.

He said he thought referendums were “a daft way of running things” so it would be better for parliament to decide to back into the EU but this was unlikely to happen.

“The political class are terrified of doing that. So the reality, which I’ve had to come to terms with, is that we obviously are leaving the EU and I’m trying to minimise the damage and retain as close a relationship as we possibly can,” he said.

Clarke also said Corbyn had “risen to the job of being quite a credible leader” of the opposition, but he did not believe the public would vote for him as prime minister.

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This is the one that really got me - Gove and Boris arguing that rich donors should be able to write off their vote leave donations even though it isn't legal. Gove actually arguing that it's anti democratic to expect them to pay their taxes. You have to wonder the real reason they supported this folly.

 

UK cabinet ministers 'concerned over Brexit campaign tax demands'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/24/brexit-campaign-tax-demands-boris-johnson-michael-gove?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Senior UK cabinet ministers have reportedly expressed concerns after prominent leave campaigners who donated large sums to the Brexit campaigns during the 2016 referendum recently received tax demands from HMRC.

The demands from HMRC hinge on inheritance tax rules that require tax to be paid upfront on large gifts. Party political donations, as well as donations to charities, are usually exempt, but HMRC has said that does not apply to individuals who donated to the referendum campaign.

Eurosceptics have argued they will bear more of a tax burden for donations to the leave campaign than remain supporters, because the large donations were more likely to come from wealthy individuals or businessmen, not listed companies.

HMRC dismissed the suggestion that the tax demands were evidence of bias, saying it applied the law equally across all donors. Others derided the complaints as pleas for “bungs” for wealthy donors.

Those reported by the Telegraph to have received payment demands in the last fortnight include the banker and former Conservative party co-chair Peter Cruddas, worth a reported £750m, who gave £900,000 to Vote Leave.

The former Ukip donor Arron Banks, who donated £8.1m to his Leave.EU campaign group, told the Telegraph the £2m bill he had received in the past month was the “revenge of the establishment”.

Another who has received a payment demand is Robert Edmiston, a millionaire motor trader worth a reported £440m, who donated £850,000 to Vote Leave and £150,000 to the Grassroots Out campaign through his company IM Group. Lord Edmiston told the Times he had been sent a bill from HMRC for £200,000.

It is understood one remain campaign donor has also received a similar substantial tax bill.

The Sunday Telegraph reported concerns from both Boris Johnson and Michael Gove about the payment demands, quoting a friend of the environment secretary as saying: “Michael is obviously concerned about action that appears to impinge on our democratic values. This will appear to many like an attempt to silence anyone who dare challenge the establishment and status quo.”

A HMRC spokesman said: “Donations to campaign groups don’t qualify as exempt gifts to political parties, unless the recipient is a political party meeting the criteria set out in section 24 of the Inheritance Tax Act 1984.

“No special exemption was granted ahead of the 2016 referendum. Obviously, the legislation is applied equally to all organisations and groups.”

The Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg told the Telegraph it showed the government was “penalising people who had the audacity to challenge it”.

Other MPs said it was clear the tax should be paid if it was owed. The prominent Conservative MP Nicholas Soames said: “Surely it should be quite clear on so-called ‘Brexit tax’ demands – if the tax is owed under statute then it should be paid.”

Jolyon Maugham QC, a tax expert and pro-remain campaigner who has set up the Good Law Project to challenge both tax evasion and Brexit matters, wrote in an article for his blog on Sunday that HMRC was “doing no more than acting as parliament and the law compel it to”.

He wrote: “Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Gove are suggesting that the law should be disapplied to give these immensely wealthy men huge bungs. That’s what the leaders of Brexit are saying. That you should fund unlawful bungs of money to immensely wealthy Brexiters. That’s how much they care about normal working people.”

 

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