Buce Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: Actually https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/blogs/peter-kellner/why-we-cant-cant-trust-recent-polling-showing-a-ten-point-lead-for-remain All subjective opinion. Interesting how one poll is 'cherry picked' but yours is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 30 minutes ago, Buce said: All subjective opinion. Interesting how one poll is 'cherry picked' but yours is valid. i never said that, opinion polls are snapshot of views at a period of time from a limited sample of people. They're an educated guess at best. It's just that the last poll got so much excitement going I thought you'd all enjoy this one as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 I cannot get excited as to whether or not there has been a slight shift towards Remain. There has clearly NOT been a massive shift towards Remain - and that's the only thing that would bring it back into play politically. Unless that happens, the debate remains one of Hard Brexit v. Soft Brexit, with all the issues wrapped up in that, surely? It seems that legally we could probably reverse our Article 50 notice to leave, but politically we couldn't do so without another referendum or election, surely? And the govt wouldn't opt for that unless they were confident there had been a massive shift in public opinion. It's conceivable that could happen IF people start suffering major adverse consequences from Brexit (major job losses etc.) or IF the only deals on offer look bleak, but if so that will probably only become clear very late in the negotiations. Even if the UK was prepared to reverse its Brexit stance at the last minute (unlikely), would the EU accept that? Legally they might have to, but politically/financially they'd surely charge a heavy price after all the disruption caused? More likely, IF there is some shift towards Remain in the polls, it will strengthen the hand of the Soft Brexit people who want to stay close to the single market & customs union and encourage the Tory Remainer rebels in parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 more people will be active for a minor constitutional issue than greater social justice in our society smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 I see Nadine Dorries seems to have crossed the line into madness. My thoughts are with her family at this difficult time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 48 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said: I see Nadine Dorries seems to have crossed the line into madness. My thoughts are with her family at this difficult time Some of the people elected as mps - on all sides - beggar belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 AVERAGE households now owe over £14k in unsecured debt. Over 8.3 MILLION people have problem debts. This isn't just the wasteful. John McDonnell warns over 'alarming increase' in UK household debt https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/27/uk-household-debt-john-mcdonnell-warns-alarming-increase?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Meanwhile, the world's richest 500 got £1TRILLION richer in ONE year. World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1tn this year https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/dec/27/worlds-richest-500-see-increased-their-wealth-by-1tn-this-year?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Wake up people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 There'll always bea richest 500 people but they won't always be the same 500 people. People move up and down the league table. If someone was below the top 500 but then increased his wealth to overtake the person in 500th place then obviously the net wealth of the top 500 would have increased. It's a mathematical certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 2 hours ago, toddybad said: AVERAGE households now owe over £14k in unsecured debt. Over 8.3 MILLION people have problem debts. This isn't just the wasteful. John McDonnell warns over 'alarming increase' in UK household debt https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/27/uk-household-debt-john-mcdonnell-warns-alarming-increase?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Meanwhile, the world's richest 500 got £1TRILLION richer in ONE year. World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1tn this year https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/dec/27/worlds-richest-500-see-increased-their-wealth-by-1tn-this-year?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Wake up people! So what's the solution Toddyman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 10 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said: So what's the solution Toddyman More public sector debt simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 12 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said: So what's the solution Toddyman Instead of borrowing (well creating but essentially the same thing in the balance sheet) to spend on qe, which only inflates stocks for the rich, spend into the real economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 8 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: More public sector debt simple It's funny because I'm sure somebody around here has been saying all this for months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 7 minutes ago, toddybad said: It's funny because I'm sure somebody around here has been saying all this for months We didn't believe him either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 39 minutes ago, Webbo said: We didn't believe him either. It is true though. The figures exist to find out for yourself. It's absolutely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 December 2017 Share Posted 27 December 2017 Tories admit they haven't given a single penny for 'essential' fire safety work since Grenfell http://flip.it/WGwCtj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 27 December 2017 Author Share Posted 27 December 2017 10 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: I cannot get excited as to whether or not there has been a slight shift towards Remain. There has clearly NOT been a massive shift towards Remain - and that's the only thing that would bring it back into play politically. Unless that happens, the debate remains one of Hard Brexit v. Soft Brexit, with all the issues wrapped up in that, surely? It seems that legally we could probably reverse our Article 50 notice to leave, but politically we couldn't do so without another referendum or election, surely? And the govt wouldn't opt for that unless they were confident there had been a massive shift in public opinion. It's conceivable that could happen IF people start suffering major adverse consequences from Brexit (major job losses etc.) or IF the only deals on offer look bleak, but if so that will probably only become clear very late in the negotiations. Even if the UK was prepared to reverse its Brexit stance at the last minute (unlikely), would the EU accept that? Legally they might have to, but politically/financially they'd surely charge a heavy price after all the disruption caused? More likely, IF there is some shift towards Remain in the polls, it will strengthen the hand of the Soft Brexit people who want to stay close to the single market & customs union and encourage the Tory Remainer rebels in parliament. And we’re back I see... Now i find all this talk of hard/soft Brexit a bit misleading, because I doubt there will be an acceptable ‘soft Brexit’ scenario available that the UK government and EU could reasonably agree to. The two sides start too far appart, so in my mind the reality is the UK somehow miraculously gets everything it wants in a deal with the EU or we walk away (for a bit at least). A soft Brexit would be a fudge and placate nobody, there would still be issues from all sides. In some respects I feel a soft Brexit would be viewed worse than simply overriding the referendum result and withdrawing article 50, because at least with that a government could sell its reasoning and not look a total loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 28 December 2017 Share Posted 28 December 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42493529 Not really news to anyone following such things, but automation to widen wage inequality unless action is taken. Do the Tories on here really trust this government to make sure the benefits of automation are shared and not just concentrated in the hands of the few? Would you agree that old tory arguments about business profits being far more important than any other issue because business provides jobs are becoming increasingly redundant? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 28 December 2017 Share Posted 28 December 2017 2 hours ago, Rogstanley said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42493529 Not really news to anyone following such things, but automation to widen wage inequality unless action is taken. Do the Tories on here really trust this government to make sure the benefits of automation are shared and not just concentrated in the hands of the few? Would you agree that old tory arguments about business profits being far more important than any other issue because business provides jobs are becoming increasingly redundant? I dont give a flying **** about inequality, if the lowest and least skilled are earning a living wage, why should it matter what the top are earning. The only way inequality comes into play, is when the lowest cannot afford to live. Despite all the guardian links and graphs to the contrary, i believe the poorest are no worse off than they ever have been. Are robots the new immigrants stealing all our jobs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 28 December 2017 Share Posted 28 December 2017 6 minutes ago, Strokes said: I dont give a flying **** about inequality, if the lowest and least skilled are earning a living wage, why should it matter what the top are earning. The only way inequality comes into play, is when the lowest cannot afford to live. Despite all the guardian links and graphs to the contrary, i believe the poorest are no worse off than they ever have been. Are robots the new immigrants stealing all our jobs? If they aren't any worse off than how do you explain the food bank boom? Is it all down to bad fiscal management by the citizens using them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 28 December 2017 Share Posted 28 December 2017 2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: If they aren't any worse off than how do you explain the food bank boom? Is it all down to bad fiscal management by the citizens using them? If you offered me free food, i would take it. Wouldnt you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 December 2017 Share Posted 28 December 2017 57 minutes ago, Strokes said: I dont give a flying **** about inequality, if the lowest and least skilled are earning a living wage, why should it matter what the top are earning. The only way inequality comes into play, is when the lowest cannot afford to live. Despite all the guardian links and graphs to the contrary, i believe the poorest are no worse off than they ever have been. Are robots the new immigrants stealing all our jobs? Homelessness, food bank use and living standards are all worsening considerably. Believe what you like but it doesn't change the fact that life is worse for the poor now than 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 December 2017 Share Posted 28 December 2017 46 minutes ago, Strokes said: If you offered me free food, i would take it. Wouldnt you? They are offering free food and I haven't taken it. I presume you haven't either. So your point is a bit crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 28 December 2017 Share Posted 28 December 2017 1 minute ago, toddybad said: They are offering free food and I haven't taken it. I presume you haven't either. So your point is a bit crap. I don’t qualify as far as I am aware. If I do, I will most certainly be going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 28 December 2017 Share Posted 28 December 2017 2 minutes ago, toddybad said: Homelessness, food bank use and living standards are all worsening considerably. Believe what you like but it doesn't change the fact that life is worse for the poor now than 10 years ago. I believe what I see, not what I read. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajthefox Posted 28 December 2017 Share Posted 28 December 2017 1 hour ago, Strokes said: I dont give a flying **** about inequality, if the lowest and least skilled are earning a living wage, why should it matter what the top are earning. The only way inequality comes into play, is when the lowest cannot afford to live. Despite all the guardian links and graphs to the contrary, i believe the poorest are no worse off than they ever have been. Are robots the new immigrants stealing all our jobs? They aren't, that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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