Popular Post Realist Guy In The Room Posted 3 July 2017 Popular Post Share Posted 3 July 2017 Both sides of this argument are a disgrace. 'It was down to cuts', 'Why did Labour councils do it'." etc etc. Stop trying to catch each other out. There's a 24 storey graveyard because it turns out that the cladding option used was dangerous. Not just at Grenfell but on 181 out of 181 tower blocks up and down the country. At the time, both cladding options were deemed safe but one was cheaper. It matters not about cuts or councils or anything else. In any walk of life in any situation, if you're faced with 2 options of seemingly equal situation, you go for the most economical. There is no conspiracy, no agenda against the poor. The councils all acted on advice from experts. The suppliers of the panels and those that passed them are at fault, nobody else. How it was handled afterwards was and still is pretty shambolic but please, enough with the point scoring. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajthefox Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 4 hours ago, MattP said: I read this yesterday - "The Labour party is now so drunk on pathological righteousness that it feels justified in trying to propel itself into power on the shoulders of the mob, while trampling over the bodies of the Grenfell Tower dead" Some of the posts on last page and an half of this thread habe been the perfect example of some of their supporters being totally drunk on it as well. We're probably a week away from not just politicians, but also Tory voters being blamed for some absurd things. Do you not see your own hypocrisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 4 hours ago, ajthefox said: Do you not see your own hypocrisy? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Don't always agree with him but Ken Clarke talking a lot of sense here, we clearly have a problem with public sector wages but the government can't respond to demand by implementing unrealistic policy. He's probably right that it wouldn't even make the Tories any popular anyway and could just make them look fiscally incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Theresa May is still supporting terrorists I see. Given she is the Tory leader, by association so do the Tories. Theresa May sitting on report on foreign funding of UK extremists https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/03/theresa-may-report-foreign-funding-extremists-saudi-arabia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 22 minutes ago, MattP said: Don't always agree with him but Ken Clarke talking a lot of sense here, we clearly have a problem with public sector wages but the government can't respond to demand by implementing unrealistic policy. He's probably right that it wouldn't even make the Tories any popular anyway and could just make them look fiscally incompetent. Yeah, I think they are stuck between a rock and a hard place with this. My heart bleeds for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 4 minutes ago, Steven said: Theresa May is still supporting terrorists I see. Given she is the Tory leader, by association so do the Tories. Theresa May sitting on report on foreign funding of UK extremists https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/03/theresa-may-report-foreign-funding-extremists-saudi-arabia I'd really like to know what our resident Tories think about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 48 minutes ago, Buce said: I'd really like to know what our resident Tories think about this. Probably that it's good for business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Let's get real here, if Saudi Arabia wants it can wreck the world economy, you have to tread carefully with these people. Just because they aren't telling you what's in this report doesn't mean they aren't acting on it behind the scenes, we'll never know. What would our non Tory residents do about this if they did know what was in the report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 More poor judgement shown by that "strong and stable" leader of the Tories. Minister appointed to negotiate Britain's withdrawal wants European Union 'wholly torn down' https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-european-union-eu-steve-baker-theresa-may-wholly-torn-down-libertarian-alliance-a7820721.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: Let's get real here, if Saudi Arabia wants it can wreck the world economy, you have to tread carefully with these people. Just because they aren't telling you what's in this report doesn't mean they aren't acting on it behind the scenes, we'll never know. What would our non Tory residents do about this if they did know what was in the report? Not any more. With the swing to green energy and American shale oil production the Saudis don't have the economic leverage they once had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 11 minutes ago, Webbo said: Let's get real here, if Saudi Arabia wants it can wreck the world economy, you have to tread carefully with these people. Just because they aren't telling you what's in this report doesn't mean they aren't acting on it behind the scenes, we'll never know. What would our non Tory residents do about this if they did know what was in the report? That would depend on what is in it, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 23 minutes ago, lgfualol said: Probably that it's good for business So, you're ok if UK extremists are being funded by the Saudis as long as business is good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 4 minutes ago, Buce said: That would depend on what is in it, of course. It seems like everyone on here has decided already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, Webbo said: It seems like everyone on here has decided already. There's an easy way to clear it up. Publish the report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 9 minutes ago, Steven said: Not any more. With the swing to green energy and American shale oil production the Saudis don't have the economic leverage they once had. I would welcome the day when we can these people where to go. I don't think we're there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 2 minutes ago, Steven said: Not any more. With the swing to green energy and American shale oil production the Saudis don't have the economic leverage they once had. Some months back, I read an apparently credible article stating that, because of the fall in global oil prices, Saudi is set to be in very serious economic trouble within about 5 years. I posted a link on here at the time, I think. It's good news if Saudi can no longer use OPEC to hold the global economy to ransom, but it could have some very adverse consequences - particularly given strong Saudi links to Islamist terrorism. Saudi isn't a small oil-rich emirate like some of its neighbours. It is a highly repressive nation with a population of about 33 million, already with a lot of serious inequality and people in poverty - and a devout Sunni Islam nation. Not a good place to end up as a failed state - and not one where pandering to rulers for short-term economic gain seems a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 18 minutes ago, Buce said: So, you're ok if UK extremists are being funded by the Saudis as long as business is good? I'm not - it's just what I have heard from Torys. I'm absolutely not a tory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 2 hours ago, Buce said: I'd really like to know what our resident Tories think about this. That it's good for the security of the country and makes us strong and stable. Failing that they will simply say ' Tjhey are Tories we don't need to give an excuse' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 1 hour ago, lgfualol said: Probably that it's good for business 35 minutes ago, lgfualol said: I'm not - it's just what I have heard from Torys. I'm absolutely not a tory. My apologies - I took your post as a personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 13 hours ago, Captain... said: The cladding has been shown to be against regulations, but the proper cladding would have cost £12m so the cheaper option was chosen. I don't know the decision making process and whether they were aware that the cladding used was dangerous, or just saw the bottom line and went with that tender without due diligence. I have no idea where you are getting these facts from. I read that the saving was £300k for taking aluminium vs Zinc, and they both had the same fire resistance rating, although the Zinc was marketed as fire resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 2 hours ago, Steven said: Theresa May is still supporting terrorists I see. Given she is the Tory leader, by association so do the Tories. Theresa May sitting on report on foreign funding of UK extremists https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/03/theresa-may-report-foreign-funding-extremists-saudi-arabia Not everything should be in the public domain. Do we have more influence with the Saudi government by not pissing them off? Undoubtedly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, Jon the Hat said: Not everything should be in the public domain. Do we have more influence with the Saudi government by not pissing them off? Undoubtedly. Not enough to stop them funding extremist Islamic teachings and terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 57 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Some months back, I read an apparently credible article stating that, because of the fall in global oil prices, Saudi is set to be in very serious economic trouble within about 5 years. I posted a link on here at the time, I think. It's good news if Saudi can no longer use OPEC to hold the global economy to ransom, but it could have some very adverse consequences - particularly given strong Saudi links to Islamist terrorism. Saudi isn't a small oil-rich emirate like some of its neighbours. It is a highly repressive nation with a population of about 33 million, already with a lot of serious inequality and people in poverty - and a devout Sunni Islam nation. Not a good place to end up as a failed state - and not one where pandering to rulers for short-term economic gain seems a good idea. Indeed, So there are many reasons to keep them on side, not all of which are about oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, Steven said: Not enough to stop them funding extremist Islamic teachings and terrorism. So we need more influence not less? I agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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