Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Rogstanley said:

Well according to some, automation is only just getting started. 

Well let them try telling that to Richard Arkwright, maybe not though as he’s been dead for 230 years which is probably when these type of people last knew about automation systems. As I see it the only real area for automation is in the education sector where you have virtual teachers projected onto a screen. One history teacher for 50 schools. That’s the future.

[Rogstanley]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

It's not good, that's why we voted for brexit.

 

Well so far the brexit vote has decimated the pound and consequently piled on even more problems for wages and living standards. Removing yourself from your biggest trading partner seems a frankly bizarre way of trying to boost wage growth. I'd rather we did things that are proven to work like abandoning austerity and bringing in more social democracy,  but at this point I've no choice but to join you in blind hope that somehow, against all known logic and reason brexit somehow manages to work. 

 

 

[Buce]

10 minutes ago, Webbo said:

It's not good, that's why we voted for brexit.

 

So, it's all the fault of the EU?

 

How so?

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Rogstanley said:

but at this point I've no choice but to join you in blind hope that somehow, against all known logic and reason brexit somehow manages to work. 

 

 

Excellent welcome aboard the optimistic bus, please ignore the slogan on the side.

[Webbo]

6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So, it's all the fault of the EU?

 

How so?

I think we've gone over this argument before. An influx of cheap labour suppresses wages and the extra millions living here now through immigration increases demand for housing.

[yorkie1999]

8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I think we've gone over this argument before. An influx of cheap labour suppresses wages and the extra millions living here now through immigration increases demand for housing.

Bleedin immigrates

[Rogstanley]

12 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I think we've gone over this argument before. An influx of cheap labour suppresses wages and the extra millions living here now through immigration increases demand for housing.

Immigration to the uk has been shown to suppress low skilled wages but it doesn't explain why we've seen wages falling in all but the highest brackets and in sectors into which there has not been a significant influx of immigrants.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

‘’Wages were up by 1.7pc on the year but prices increased by 1.8pc’’

 

I’m shocked I didn’t notice.

 

Paywall

 

Paywall

4 years old.

 

Paywall 

Forecast, not relevant.

 

Forecast not relevant.

 Low-wage workers have benefited from minimum wage increases, especially the 2016 introduction of the National Living Wage. They have done better than workers higher up the wage distribution, thus leading to a modest decrease in wage inequality.

 

which is all I said tbf.

You might need too.

Although the minimum wage has gone up, in-work benefits and tax credits have fallen much more so the poor are most definitely poorer. All independent analysis shows this.

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Although the minimum wage has gone up, in-work benefits and tax credits have fallen much more so the poor are most definitely poorer. All independent analysis shows this.

The tax allowance has increased as well.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Webbo said:

The tax allowance has increased as well.

And still doesn't even go close to making up the shortfall. I've provided all the analysis multiple times before.

[Webbo]

10 minutes ago, toddybad said:

And still doesn't even go close to making up the shortfall. I've provided all the analysis multiple times before.

More than £4,500 a year? 20% basic income tax that's £900 a year more in your wage packet.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

More than £4,500 a year? 20% basic income tax that's £900 a year more in your wage packet.

Yes, more than £18 per week. Look, we've had this conversation 1000x. You've been shown all the facts and figures. You can't argue with facts.

By all means, argue whether it's good or bad - matters of opinion are up for grabs - but you can't just keep ignoring fact and trying to argue anyway. Ffs.

Edited 28 December 2017 by Guest

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Yes, more than £18 per week. Look, we've had this conversation 1000x. You've been shown all the facts and figures. You can't argue with facts.

By all means, argue whether it's good or bad - matters of opinion are up for grabs - but you can't just keep ignoring fact and trying to argue anyway. Ffs.

 

Wanna bet?

[Buce]

 

Tory MP condemns Universal Basic Income 'on moral grounds':

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/28/tory-mp-condemns-universal-basic-income-on-moral-grounds

[Webbo]

12 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Yes, more than £18 per week. Look, we've had this conversation 1000x. You've been shown all the facts and figures. You can't argue with facts.

By all means, argue whether it's good or bad - matters of opinion are up for grabs - but you can't just keep ignoring fact and trying to argue anyway. Ffs.

As I remember the facts were on my side but I really can't be bothered to argue this again.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

As I remember the facts were on my side but I really can't be bothered to argue this again.

That probably is how you remember it. Nobody else does though. Therein lies the problem with these debates.

[Dr The Singh]

8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

As I remember the facts were on my side but I really can't be bothered to argue this again.

I think toddybad should take my place in the shed on new years

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

I think toddybad should take my place in the shed on new years

Once you've gone Singh its the only thing.

[Dr The Singh]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

So, it's all the fault of the EU?

 

How so?

Those bloody foruegners

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Once you've gone Singh its the only thing.

[Webbo]

Just now, Buce said:

Jealous? Much?

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Jealous? Much?

 

Nah.

 

Can't stand the smell of paint.

[Buce]

 

UK to sink to the bottom of OECD wage growth index in 2018

British workers to be worse off among wealthy nations as Brexit inflation diminishes pay, TUC analysis show

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/29/uk-to-sink-to-the-bottom-of-oecd-wage-growth-index-in-2018

 

Britain is set to have the worst wage growth of any wealthy nation next year, ranking behind Italy, Greece and Hungary, according to analysis by the TUC.

The UK is forecast to come bottom from 32 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development wealthy nations for wage performance in 2018, according to the study of OECD figures by the unions’ umbrella group.

British workers are expected to see their earnings decrease by 0.7% in 2018 when taking account of inflation, which has surged in the past year as a result of the pound’s weakness since the EU referendum, pushing up the cost of importing food and fuel.

Only two other OECD nations – Spain and Italy – are expected to record negative wage growth, although both still outperform the UK.

In contrast, Hungary is expected to come top for real wage growth next year, with pay set to accelerate by 4.9%. The eurozone is forecast to see growth in earnings of 0.6%.

In her new year message for 2018, ahead of the TUC’s 150th anniversary in June, general secretary Frances O’Grady said: “Real wages are still lower than they were when the financial crisis hit in 2008. And 2018 is set to be bleaker still.”

The analysis comes after the Resolution Foundation said this week it expects real wages in Britain to stagnate throughout 2018. The thinktank forecast growth in earnings to be zero over the course of the year, meaning the pressure on living standards is set to continue.

Average weekly earnings have lagged behind inflation for eight months straight this year, despite a recent slight pick-up in wage growth. The annual increase in the three months to October was 2.3%, while the most recent rate of inflation in the year to November was 3.1%.

 

Taken over the past decade since the financial crisis, pay has failed to grow above inflation and has not yet returned to the average levels seen in the years before the credit crunch. O’Grady said that on current projections, average wages will not recover until 2025 – a full 17 years after the pay squeeze began.

Meanwhile, business trade body the CBI warned the government it must move at speed to secure a transitional deal with Brussels to smooth the exit from the EU.

The head of the CBI, Carolyn Fairbairn, said failure to reach a deal by the end of March would jeopardise jobs and investment. She said companies had put their plans on hold amid political uncertainty, while firms in other nations had moved ahead with major infrastructure projects and adapting to digital technology.

Writing in her end of year letter to more than 190,000 members, she appeared to criticise cabinet infighting over Brexit. “From our politicians we need unity, clarity and certainty, not a different opinion every day,” she said.

Edited 29 December 2017 by Buce

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

UK to sink to the bottom of OECD wage growth index in 2018

British workers to be worse off among wealthy nations as Brexit inflation diminishes pay, TUC analysis show

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/29/uk-to-sink-to-the-bottom-of-oecd-wage-growth-index-in-2018

 

Britain is set to have the worst wage growth of any wealthy nation next year, ranking behind Italy, Greece and Hungary, according to analysis by the TUC.

The UK is forecast to come bottom from 32 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development wealthy nations for wage performance in 2018, according to the study of OECD figures by the unions’ umbrella group.

British workers are expected to see their earnings decrease by 0.7% in 2018 when taking account of inflation, which has surged in the past year as a result of the pound’s weakness since the EU referendum, pushing up the cost of importing food and fuel.

Only two other OECD nations – Spain and Italy – are expected to record negative wage growth, although both still outperform the UK.

In contrast, Hungary is expected to come top for real wage growth next year, with pay set to accelerate by 4.9%. The eurozone is forecast to see growth in earnings of 0.6%.

In her new year message for 2018, ahead of the TUC’s 150th anniversary in June, general secretary Frances O’Grady said: “Real wages are still lower than they were when the financial crisis hit in 2008. And 2018 is set to be bleaker still.”

The analysis comes after the Resolution Foundation said this week it expects real wages in Britain to stagnate throughout 2018. The thinktank forecast growth in earnings to be zero over the course of the year, meaning the pressure on living standards is set to continue.

Average weekly earnings have lagged behind inflation for eight months straight this year, despite a recent slight pick-up in wage growth. The annual increase in the three months to October was 2.3%, while the most recent rate of inflation in the year to November was 3.1%.

 

Taken over the past decade since the financial crisis, pay has failed to grow above inflation and has not yet returned to the average levels seen in the years before the credit crunch. O’Grady said that on current projections, average wages will not recover until 2025 – a full 17 years after the pay squeeze began.

Meanwhile, business trade body the CBI warned the government it must move at speed to secure a transitional deal with Brussels to smooth the exit from the EU.

The head of the CBI, Carolyn Fairbairn, said failure to reach a deal by the end of March would jeopardise jobs and investment. She said companies had put their plans on hold amid political uncertainty, while firms in other nations had moved ahead with major infrastructure projects and adapting to digital technology.

Writing in her end of year letter to more than 190,000 members, she appeared to criticise cabinet infighting over Brexit. “From our politicians we need unity, clarity and certainty, not a different opinion every day,” she said.

And yet, at the end of a lost decade, we still have ordinary people on here arguing that the government is doing a good job. It's startling. 

Edited 29 December 2017 by Guest

[Rogstanley]

As we enter our 2nd decade of unnecessary wage cuts thanks to continuing Tory economic incompetence, I can’t help but wonder what the history books will make of this era. Why were people willing to even consider voting for a party with a record of such comprehensive failure over such a long period? How is it that a party delivering the worst record on wage growth in recorded history, far worse than any other comparable nation on the entire planet, can even continue to exist never mind nearly win elections? These really are weird, cucky times we live in.

Edited 29 December 2017 by Rogstanley