Izzy Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, Webbo said: Wasn't he a born again Christian who got caught playing away from home? Yeah maybe. I seem to recall he may have also made some comment about being against gay marriage or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 19 minutes ago, MattP said: Even I'm missing Call me Dave a bit, he does speak sense. It's all political preference, though. I could just as easily say: "The opponents of so-called profligacy couch their arguments in a way that makes them sound prudent and responsible. They seek to paint the supporters of stimulated growth as selfish and reckless. The exact reverse is true. Giving up on improving living standards and stimulating investment isn't being prudent. It's being short-sighted: saving money today that the economy will need tomorrow for growth, investment and better living standards". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 2 minutes ago, daz*dsb said: ok, so what benefits do you think we'll all get once the deficit is wiped out? are you all expecting a card through the door saying 'thanks for your patience, we cleared it!' and maybe a £20 note taped to it? do you think as ordinary everyday citizens you're going to see any personal prize for being such staunch supporters of wiping out an imaginary debt? will the government suddenly open up the purse strings, stopping cuts to public services and education? will they ****. even if they wipe the deficit they'll reward themselves and their sponsors and keep the general public bent over and ****ed as always. I just can't see what the ordinary man sees in making life a misery for people right now to achieve something that isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference on a personal level anyway. the date to clear it keeps getting pushed further and further back - well, it'll be 2022, then 2030, then 2050 - but you'll all be there beating the drum still and for what? please enlighten me on why you've swallowed this spoonful of shit you've been fed so happily? If they wipe the deficit, I'll imagine they'll continue going further to pay the national debt. We pay a scary amount of interest on this debt and it would be better if we had this money to spend elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, Webbo said: When the deficit is gone and we have a surplus we can start paying down the debt, which will reduce the interest we're paying, which will free up money elsewhere. Yeah, ok Webbo - that's a vague description of the overall target. How does it benefit you, personally? What is it that's so vital about the struggle to sort the deficit out that fires you up inside? Fire you up enough to watch lots and lots of people facing a daily struggle, that makes the end goal REALLY worth it. What is this post-deficit world that you envisage that's so worthwhile? Matt has gone as far as saying he'd make even more cuts to achieve it sooner - why so? What is it that's so appealing about the end-game that you guys support the current model so passionately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 6 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: What happened to Stephen Crabb? I thought he was supposed to be the next up and coming star at one point? Didn't he run for the leadership last time? I ca't see him on the list... Got caught shagging and resigned from the cabinet. 5 minutes ago, daz*dsb said: ok, so what benefits do you think we'll all get once the deficit is wiped out? are you all expecting a card through the door saying 'thanks for your patience, we cleared it!' and maybe a £20 note taped to it? do you think as ordinary everyday citizens you're going to see any personal prize for being such staunch supporters of wiping out an imaginary debt? will the government suddenly open up the purse strings, stopping cuts to public services and education? will they ****. even if they wipe the deficit they'll reward themselves and their sponsors and keep the general public bent over and ****ed as always. I just can't see what the ordinary man sees in making life a misery for people right now to achieve something that isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference on a personal level anyway. the date to clear it keeps getting pushed further and further back - well, it'll be 2022, then 2030, then 2050 - but you'll all be there beating the drum still and for what? please enlighten me on why you've swallowed this spoonful of shit you've been fed so happily? I wouldn't go around accusing others of swallowing shit when you've just claimed nothing has happened to the deficit. When we clear it we start paying back what we owe and start to hopefully get the country back into some position of fiscal responsibility. We currently spend over 50 billion just serving the interest on our debt, just imagine what that could fund had we not got into such a total mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 1 minute ago, daz*dsb said: Yeah, ok Webbo - that's a vague description of the overall target. How does it benefit you, personally? What is it that's so vital about the struggle to sort the deficit out that fires you up inside? Fire you up enough to watch lots and lots of people facing a daily struggle, that makes the end goal REALLY worth it. What is this post-deficit world that you envisage that's so worthwhile? Matt has gone as far as saying he'd make even more cuts to achieve it sooner - why so? What is it that's so appealing about the end-game that you guys support the current model so passionately? If the economy is well run it encourages investment, domestic and from abroad. That improves jobs and living standards. If Labour were running the country investment would pull out, debt would rise to such a level there would be doubt whether we could pay it back and the interest rate we'd have to pay would go up.Pumping money into an economy that is already growing will only cause inflation leading to lower living standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 2 minutes ago, MattP said: I wouldn't go around accusing others of swallowing shit when you've just claimed nothing has happened to the deficit. I wasn't clear - the deficit may have come down but our debt continues to grow at a steady rate. With the debt continuing to rise and a predicted date of 2022 before the deficit is clear, exactly how much higher will the debt be then? And at that point do we have to wait another 20 years before the debt is cleared? Once that debt is cleared do we find something else, another reason as to why we can't spend any money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 13 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: What happened to Stephen Crabb? I thought he was supposed to be the next up and coming star at one point? Didn't he run for the leadership last time? I ca't see him on the list... 11 minutes ago, Webbo said: Wasn't he a born again Christian who got caught playing away from home? He crawled back under his rock(pool).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 2 minutes ago, Buce said: He crawled back under his rock(pool).. He turned down a promotion because he thought it was a sideways move. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Interest on the national debt is about £45 billion, the budget deficit is what £65 billion? So soon we will be only borrowing the amount to service the interest, we really need to get this national debt down otherwise interest payments will increase and that is taking money out of the economy now and in the future. You can put up as many graphs and quote as many economists as you like but borrowing money means it costs more than if you use cash in the bank. If £1.7 trillion is not the limit to stop borrowing what is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, daz*dsb said: I wasn't clear - the deficit may have come down but our debt continues to grow at a steady rate. With the debt continuing to rise and a predicted date of 2022 before the deficit is clear, exactly how much higher will the debt be then? And at that point do we have to wait another 20 years before the debt is cleared? Once that debt is cleared do we find something else, another reason as to why we can't spend any money? No shit debt continues to go up if the deficit is still there. That's why we're trying to lower it ffs Once the debt is cleared there isn't a reason to not spend money, that's the entire point. We won't be paying billions in interest. Then you can have the unicorns corbyn is promising, just not at the expense of your kids and grandkids. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 2 minutes ago, daz*dsb said: I wasn't clear - the deficit may have come down but our debt continues to grow at a steady rate. With the debt continuing to rise and a predicted date of 2022 before the deficit is clear, exactly how much higher will the debt be then? And at that point do we have to wait another 20 years before the debt is cleared? Once that debt is cleared do we find something else, another reason as to why we can't spend any money? Well the first part goes without saying, until you run a surplus the debt will increase. The debt won't be cleared in our lifetimes, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't care about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 4 minutes ago, daz*dsb said: I wasn't clear - the deficit may have come down but our debt continues to grow at a steady rate. With the debt continuing to rise and a predicted date of 2022 before the deficit is clear, exactly how much higher will the debt be then? And at that point do we have to wait another 20 years before the debt is cleared? Once that debt is cleared do we find something else, another reason as to why we can't spend any money? It will do, unless you run a surplus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: He turned down a promotion because he thought it was a sideways move. Maybe he needs to come out of his shell a bit more? Maybe not, though, if he was disgraced for sending sex messages to young women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hundreds Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 In true Tory style, why should I care about other people's kids and grandkids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 3 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said: In true Tory style, why should I care about other people's kids and grandkids? You shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 10 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Maybe he needs to come out of his shell a bit more? Maybe not, though, if he was disgraced for sending sex messages to young women. That's very shellfish behaviour by Crabb... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, MattP said: Even I'm missing Call me Dave a bit, he does speak sense. Sound finances should be employed at all times in the day to day running of the country, austerity is special measures. If it was just sound finances then it wouldn't need a special name. Spending money to make money is also sound finances, investing in education, people and infrastructure is also sound finances, paying your staff a fair wage so they don't leave in droves is sound finances. Bringing in new revenue streams is sound finances. So is cutting out the waste and excesses and not spending money on unnecessary things such as politician payrises, HS2 and snap elections. Stripping back services to breaking point is only sound finances if they don't break, if there isn't a disaster that turns out to be more expensive than spending money in the first place. Austerity is a risk, a gamble that the short term pain saves enough money for long term gain. The problem at the moment is the short term is stretching out further and further and the long term gain looks very far away. Obviously speculate to accumulate is also a gamble and devising an economic plan is only part of the solution the other problem is executing it successfully. I'm not necessarily saying austerity was the wrong choice in 2010 but the execution has been poor the rewards minimal and the pay off a long time coming. tl:dr What Alf said Edited 4 July 2017 by Captain... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 34 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Maybe he needs to come out of his shell a bit more? I've heard he's on the come back though, MP for Cromer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 1 minute ago, bovril said: I've heard he's on the come back though, MP for Cromer. As long as there's a release claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 3 minutes ago, bovril said: I've heard he's on the come back though, MP for Cromer. He's washed up there, has he? They'll eat him alive in Cromer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hundreds Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, Alf Bentley said: He's washed up there, has he? They'll eat him alive in Cromer. Heard he's become a right hermit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-vote-leave-director-dominic-cummings-leave-eu-error-nhs-350-million-lie-bus-a7822386.html Brexit: Vote Leave chief who created £350m NHS lie on bus admits leaving EU could be 'an error' Dominic Cummings also described the referendum as a 'dumb idea' - shaping up to be a 'guaranteed debacle' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 4 July 2017 Share Posted 4 July 2017 8 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said: Heard he's become a right hermit. Not that surprising with all his anemones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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