Carl the Llama Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 1 minute ago, Webbo said: Why do you (not just you but quite a few on here) get so pissy about it? Why you think you've got the right to demand everyone agrees with you. I argue until I get fed up. I know I've not changed anyone's mind and I don't really care. 9 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: I think this subject's been well enough covered now, I don't want to keep it going any longer than it has to because as much as I seem to be having a go at you I do actually quite like you as a member of the forum, Webs, and I don't want you to get the impression I'm holding some kind of grudge here. It just is what it is. 21 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Sometimes. Sometimes you just ignore the evidence and misconstrue the point being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 Just now, Carl the Llama said: You're ignoring some of what I've said , but you know what? I'm not exasperated. I'm not saying you've got a grudge against me, I'm saying you get pissy when someone disagrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: Alf has said that all the facts were correct. He also pointed out that they were misleading, so again: 22 minutes ago, Webbo said: Evidence is subjective, just because it backs your argument doesn't make it true. (True in the sense of it meaning what you're conveying it to mean). And please don't confuse me correcting you or explaining things to you for me being pissy Just a minute ago you were complaining about people being personal, I'm sure you wouldn't like me calling you pissy for disagreeing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 To get things back on track here's a clip you'll enjoy Webster: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-40492038/juncker-the-european-parliament-is-ridiculous Personally I think Jean-Claude has every right to be annoyed. I seem to remember many MEP's being rightly upset with Farage's arrogant failure to attend parliament or committee meetings, how's this any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 I haven't got a problem with you Carl or Alf or anyone else. I don't mind if people disagree with me. I'd just prefer it if people weren't personal. There's no need for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 Just now, Webbo said: I haven't got a problem with you Carl or Alf or anyone else. I don't mind if people disagree with. I'd just prefer it if people weren't personal. there's no need for it. Alright no need to get pissy For what it's worth I'm sorry if you think anything I've said was too personal, I've tried to be clear that it isn't meant to be an attack but if any of it has upset you that wasn't my intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: Alright no need to get pissy For what it's worth I'm sorry if you think anything I've said was too personal, I've tried to be clear that it isn't meant to be an attack but if any of it has upset you that wasn't my intention. No you've not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 In the current polarised climate, it's pretty easy for the political to be become personal, and tbh I think here is better than most places on the Web for stepping back before that happens (of course, the internet in general is a pretty low bar to clear in that respect). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 24 minutes ago, Webbo said: I haven't got a problem with you Carl or Alf or anyone else. I don't mind if people disagree with me. I'd just prefer it if people weren't personal. There's no need for it. I disagree you twat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 25 minutes ago, Webbo said: Alf has said that all the facts were correct. If you make 5 points in an argument and I only query 1 that's targeting your argument. If you try and argue 5 things at once you lose focus and it comes out as waffle. Maybe 4 points of your argument are correct but it doesn't mean your conclusions are. If I misconstrue your points sometimes maybe it's because you didn't make your point clearly? Why do you (not just you but quite a few on here) get so pissy about it? Why you think you've got the right to demand everyone agrees with you. I argue until I get fed up. I know I've not changed anyone's mind and I don't really care. You may only want to respond to one point out of 5 you could at least react to the other points, especially when they are made as a direct response to something you have said. Even if it is to concede they are fair points or crap arguments. People tend to get pissy because they spend their time constructing a fair response, time they could be spending doing other things. It is frustrating to have your response dismissed by someone picking a hole in one point when the others are sound, or perhaps deserve scrutiny. It doesn't feel like a debate, it feels like someone being dismissive towards you and what you are trying to say. It is also frustrating getting no response at all, I'm not sure which is worse. I agree that making 5 points may dilute the focus of the argument, but people do that to give balance because we are discussing complex issues and as such to give a full argument you need to consider all options. Otherwise you just get left vs right chest thumping. Don't feel like you need to respond to this one, I'm just chipping in because I'm bored at work. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 I can't be bothered to write an essay everytime someone says something I disagree with. It's just the way I am, I'd rather just get to the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: To get things back on track here's a clip you'll enjoy Webster: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-40492038/juncker-the-european-parliament-is-ridiculous Personally I think Jean-Claude has every right to be annoyed. I seem to remember many MEP's being rightly upset with Farage's arrogant failure to attend parliament or committee meetings, how's this any different? I saw a bit of this yesterday but the full video is terrific. You can clearly tell he's been on the brandy before he's got in there and something has also really pissed him off, fair play though, like you I think he he has a right to be annoyed and he's spot on when he says that this parliament isn't serious, that's something most people who have watched the sessions have known for years even when it's half-full. (although it is a bad time now as they about to go on the seven week summer holiday according to the beeb reporter) At least Farage could get away with not turning up as his voters didn't actually want him there unless he was going to act the buffoon or/and give us a quality Youtube clip of him insulting someone of importance in the place. Weirdly, I think I'd get along very well in a personal capacity with Mr Juncker, we both really like a drink (even at work), we both like sport, have a love of history and we both (now at least) appear to have a distain for the European parliament, certain we would have a "PFL" a.k.a proper fcuking lunch. Not Mike Ashley style, but you would know you have had a good time. Edited 5 July 2017 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Webbo said: I haven't got a problem with you Carl or Alf or anyone else. I don't mind if people disagree with me. I'd just prefer it if people weren't personal. There's no need for it. It's not exclusive to you, Webbo. In the last week I've been called a waanker, a class warrior, and was accused of having a chip on my shoulder (all by the least pleasant members of the Tory-boy club), and all because you and I had a bit of good-natured banter. It's water off a duck's back to me - just keyboard warriors doing what they do (not, I hasten to add, that Alf is such). Edited 5 July 2017 by Buce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 29 minutes ago, Webbo said: I can't be bothered to write an essay everytime someone says something I disagree with. It's just the way I am, I'd rather just get to the point. I get that, and sometimes it is appreciated not everyone wants an essay in response, but I also get that some people find it dismissive and frustrating. You also don't need to write an essay to concede a point, or credit someone for making a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 Maybe we need a speaker for this thread to keep order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 Just now, Captain... said: Maybe we need a speaker for this thread to keep order. That's supposed to be my job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 10 minutes ago, Webbo said: That's supposed to be my job. I thought the Speaker was supposed to be politically impartial? Maybe you should resign.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Webbo Posted 5 July 2017 Popular Post Share Posted 5 July 2017 1 minute ago, Buce said: I thought the Speaker was supposed to be politically impartial? Maybe you should resign.. Nah, this place needs a strong and stable leader. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Nah, this place needs a strong and stable leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kopfkino Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 11 minutes ago, Webbo said: Nah, this place needs a strong and stable leader. I'll support your position if you give me £1bn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkon84 Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 (edited) In some nice news, congratulations are in order for The Mogg, as he's announced the birth of his sixth child named............ Sixtus Dominic Boniface Christopher Good ole' Mogg, what a legend. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40506109 Quote The other children's full names are Alfred Wulfric Leyson Pius, Thomas Wentworth Somerset Dunstan, Peter Theodore Alphege, Anselm Charles Fitzwilliam and Mary Anne Charlotte Emma Rees-Mogg. There's some seriously strong and old school names in there. Edited 5 July 2017 by Darkon84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 So we're down to debating the debaters now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 @Webbo As the storm in a teacup seems to be subsiding, it's probably best if I keep my response brief - I'm sure you and @Buce will approve. Like most, I'm capable of occasionally getting over-heated about stuff on here - stupid, as we all know. That genuinely didn't happen this morning. My mood was no more than mild eye-rolling frustration. I don't have any dislike for you or anyone else on here. To my mind it would be a bit strange to dislike someone you'd never met, anyway. I'm sorry if you feel that my comments about dishonesty were too personal. They were only intended to be a robust expression of opinion - of a kind that you've been known to use yourself, I think. Anyway, this place is supposed to be about fun, conviviality and stimulating debate, isn't it? So, I'm sorry if I contributed to any temporary souring of the atmosphere. Re. your stats: Yes, I assumed them to be accurate as the sources of the data were credible and the figures looked believable to me. But with statistics there's something equivalent to the old "truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth" saying. It's perfectly possible to use accurate data in a selective, biased way to paint a false picture. That was my argument: that by selecting one highly untypical year (2010), omitting those stats that didn't suit his argument, ignoring all context and ignoring long-term trends, Hannan was using accurate data inaccurately. To take a deliberately ridiculous equivalent, it is a fact that the UK had a surplus in 2000 but has a significant deficit in 2017...it would be ridiculous of me to argue that this was evidence of the Tories ruining the public finances. Quite a lot has happened inbetween! Most other points have been made by other posters, harmony seems to be prevailing again and It's too hot for arguments. So, I'll wish you a fine day, sir! See you soon in the 70s/80s music threads, where your best work is done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 55 minutes ago, Webbo said: That's supposed to be my job. What next? Dennis Skinner, Anna Soubry & Rev. Ian Paisley to jobshare as Commons Speaker? 29 minutes ago, KingGTF said: I'll support your position if you give me £1bn So long as you don't prevent Webbo from having a gay marriage. 11 minutes ago, Darkon84 said: In some nice news, congratulations are in order for The Mogg, as he's announced the birth of his sixth child named............ Sixtus Dominic Boniface Christopher Good ole' Mogg, what a legend. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40506109 There's some seriously strong and old school names in there. At first glimpse, I honestly misread "Boniface" as "Boatface".....Boaty McBoatface Rees-Mogg has a certain ring to it. Very Roman and very Catholic those names! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkon84 Posted 5 July 2017 Share Posted 5 July 2017 3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: At first glimpse, I honestly misread "Boniface" as "Boatface".....Boaty McBoatface Rees-Mogg has a certain ring to it. Very Roman and very Catholic those names! Boaty Mcboatface Rees-Mogg I wish I'd have misread and thought that myself. it certainly made me chuckle a little. He does love to pile up the names doesn't he! I quite like Alfred Wulfric actually, though I think any children of mine in the future would hate me for it, considering I've already quite a long Irish surname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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