Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Yur ma said it was a gud idea!

 

(can't believe I've just done a yur ma joke at my age. What can I say, there was an open goal, no-one else seemed to be willing to take it, the comedy value grew in my head and I ended up having to take the opportunity. Apologies to everyone, especially our Speaker)

 

You're never too old for a yer mam joke.

[David Guiza]

11 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Could be something to do with the economic incompetence of Labour and the clear fact their terrible financial plan will bankrupt the country. Any normal working man/woman who wants to keep their job, house and living standard could never vote for a bunch of far left Labour loons. Its an absolute plan for disaster.

 

I can not stand May and the Tories are making a complete hash of a lot of things but under Labour we will all see a new level of poverty when they take the entire economy down the drain. I just hope they under Corbyn never get enough chance to run it by themselves, the team of ministers is absolutely terrifying. Britain with labours hard brexit, business tax rises, rich tax rises, £10 minimum wage and unfunded public spending would make Venezuela look like paradise, do we really think the fire fighters, teachers and dr's and nurses would get paid then?

 

 

Have you ever posted anything that doesn't reference Venezuela? 

 

The likes of Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Netherlands, Belgium etc all portray large aspects of a socialist Government and are far more comparative examples. Anyway, i'd better make the most of replying on here before Corbyn wins and I can't afford the monthly payments on my keyboard.  

[Jacnah]

13 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Could be something to do with the economic incompetence of Labour and the clear fact their terrible financial plan will bankrupt the country. Any normal working man/woman who wants to keep their job, house and living standard could never vote for a bunch of far left Labour loons. Its an absolute plan for disaster.

 

I can not stand May and the Tories are making a complete hash of a lot of things but under Labour we will all see a new level of poverty when they take the entire economy down the drain. I just hope they under Corbyn never get enough chance to run it by themselves, the team of ministers is absolutely terrifying. Britain with labours hard brexit, business tax rises, rich tax rises, £10 minimum wage and unfunded public spending would make Venezuela look like paradise, do we really think the fire fighters, teachers and dr's and nurses would get paid then?

 

 

Great post and sums up my thoughts. The conservatives are incompetent, in fact that's an understatement, but labour under Corbyn are terrifying.

[Innovindil]

17 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Yur ma said it was a gud idea!

 

(can't believe I've just done a yur ma joke at my age. What can I say, there was an open goal, no-one else seemed to be willing to take it, the comedy value grew in my head and I ended up having to take the opportunity. Apologies to everyone, especially our Speaker)

 

Sick burn. 

[The Floyd]

10 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Have you ever posted anything that doesn't reference Venezuela? 

 

The likes of Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Netherlands, Belgium etc all portray large aspects of a socialist Government and are far more comparative examples. Anyway, i'd better make the most of replying on here before Corbyn wins and I can't afford the monthly payments on my keyboard.  

Not entirely true.

 

https://capx.co/scandinavia-is-no-socialist-valhalla/

[Realist Guy In The Room]

Even in the unlikely event that Labour were elected, they would be no worse than the Tories in terms of the countries economics.

 

If they were to be elected, their majority would be so small (probably a minority government) that none of their extreme left policy would pass.

 

Again, IF, they were to be elected, it would be for 1 term only for the reason above.  They'd be a government that wouldn't be able to govern.  

 

The picture that Foxin_mad paints just wouldnt ever happen.

[davieG]

Slogan for modern living and it's not just in politics

 

Incompetence Rules.

 

2 Business examples

 

Paid my car insurance, 2 days later got a text thanking me for my custom, 2 days further on got a text reminding me to renew my insurance

 

My car is on a recall, got a letter back in February to make an appointment, made one, they cancelled on the day to say they hadn't got the parts and would contact me when they had, come July no progress contacted them they still haven't got the part but would contact me when they had, 1 week later got a letter reminding me I hadn't made an appoint to have this important recall carried out, contacted them still not got any parts.

 

Incompetence is everywhere.

[Captain...]

51 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Could be something to do with the economic incompetence of Labour and the clear fact their terrible financial plan will bankrupt the country. Any normal working man/woman who wants to keep their job, house and living standard could never vote for a bunch of far left Labour loons. Its an absolute plan for disaster.

 

I can not stand May and the Tories are making a complete hash of a lot of things but under Labour we will all see a new level of poverty when they take the entire economy down the drain. I just hope they under Corbyn never get enough chance to run it by themselves, the team of ministers is absolutely terrifying. Britain with labours hard brexit, business tax rises, rich tax rises, £10 minimum wage and unfunded public spending would make Venezuela look like paradise, do we really think the fire fighters, teachers and dr's and nurses would get paid then?

 

 

36 minutes ago, Jacnah said:

Great post and sums up my thoughts. The conservatives are incompetent, in fact that's an understatement, but labour under Corbyn are terrifying.

 

 

Please respond to the dishonourable member's point and not just trot out party rhetoric, if you have an opinion on the point discussed we all welcome it, but save the entrenched views and party chest thumping for the next General Election.

Edited 6 July 2017 by Captain...

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Captain... said:

Please respond to the right honourable member's point and not just trot out party rhetoric, if you have an opinion on the point discussed we all welcome it, but save the entrenched views and party chest thumping for the next General Election.

 

Blimey, Captain - nobody ever called me Right Honourable before.

 

Plenty have called me a member, though..

[Captain...]

11 minutes ago, davieG said:

Slogan for modern living and it's not just in politics

 

Incompetence Rules.

 

2 Business examples

 

Paid my car insurance, 2 days later got a text thanking me for my custom, 2 days further on got a text reminding me to renew my insurance

 

My car is on a recall, got a letter back in February to make an appointment, made one, they cancelled on the day to say they hadn't got the parts and would contact me when they had, come July no progress contacted them they still haven't got the part but would contact me when they had, 1 week later got a letter reminding me I hadn't made an appoint to have this important recall carried out, contacted them still not got any parts.

 

Incompetence is everywhere.

Incompetence is everywhere because the modern world is progressing faster than people can keep a grasp on (particularly those in politics where things are written on goat skin and we vote with a pencil and paper). 

 

One recent example is Amber Rudd's, and politicians in general, grasp of cyber security, it is so completely flawed, yet they are the ones supposed to be keeping us safe from cyber crime.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/27/amber-rudd-call-backdoor-access-hazy-grasp-encryption

 

"She told Sky’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday programme: “End-to-end encryption has a place. Cybersecurity is really important and getting it wrong costs the economy and costs people money, so I support end-to-end encryption.”

She said she supports end-to-end encryption for families (presumably those using WhatsApp?), for banking and for business. But she insisted: “We also need to have a system whereby when the police have an investigation, where the security services have put forward a warrant signed off by the home secretary, we can get that information when a terrorist is involved.”

 

Ridge challenged Rudd that this was “incompatible with end-to-end encryption”. Rudd said it wasn’t. But Ridge is right: it is incompatible. As Cory Doctorow wrote when Cameron was suggesting the same thing: “It’s impossible to overstate how bonkers the idea of sabotaging cryptography is to people who understand information security.” A lot of things may have changed in two years but the government’s understanding of information security does not appear to be one of them."

Edited 6 July 2017 by Captain...

[Captain...]

6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Blimey, Captain - nobody ever called me Right Honourable before.

 

Plenty have called me a member, though..

Edited just for you...

[katieakita]

Never in my 50+ years had I voted Labour before the GE but that fed up with the apathy shown by MP's and their failure to deal with the up coming shite storm hitting the Post Office and being paid for by the taxpayer changed my mind. As for the mess left by the last Labour government maybe had a little bit to do with the Banking industry. Certainly I don't have the knowledge and in depth that many on here (claim to have) and it is normally done in the right spirit. As for the proposal of a Post Bank did Tony Benn do such a bad job in running one.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

1 hour ago, David Guiza said:

Have you ever posted anything that doesn't reference Venezuela? 

 

The likes of Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Netherlands, Belgium etc all portray large aspects of a socialist Government and are far more comparative examples. Anyway, i'd better make the most of replying on here before Corbyn wins and I can't afford the monthly payments on my keyboard.  

Because Corbyn and McDonnell have time and time again used them as the benchmark of socialist utopia he is aiming for, he has been quoted and video praising the Venezuelan Economic Model and the 'social and economic equality' that Chavez brought to the nation, yes he brought equality! now every ****er is poor and no one can buy bog roll pure genius! This is how terrifying Corbyn and his front bench are, none of them have ever held a proper job.

 

Corbyn never quotes Finland, Norway because he doesn't believe in their model. The UK under a current Tory government portray large aspects of a Socialist government, it doesn't stop people hating them.

 

56 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Even in the unlikely event that Labour were elected, they would be no worse than the Tories in terms of the countries economics.

 

If they were to be elected, their majority would be so small (probably a minority government) that none of their extreme left policy would pass.

 

Again, IF, they were to be elected, it would be for 1 term only for the reason above.  They'd be a government that wouldn't be able to govern.  

 

The picture that Foxin_mad paints just wouldnt ever happen.

I hope they never get enough power to implement any of their loony policies, but crazy policies like 27% Corporation Tax stand a chance of getting through with the help of other tax and spend parties who do not realise the economic damage a regressive tax policy would do to business in this country. In 2010 under Labour business was dying under tax.

[Rincewind]

[Alf Bentley]

EU & Japan agree outline free trade deal: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40520218

 

"The European Union and Japan have formally agreed an outline free-trade deal.

The agreement paves the way for trading in goods without tariff barriers between two of the world's biggest economic areas.

However, few specific details are known and a full, workable agreement may take some time.

Two of the most important sectors are Japanese cars and, for Europe, EU farming goods into Japan.

The outline plan was signed in Brussels after a meeting between the Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, and the European Commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, on the eve of a meeting of the G20 group of leading economies in Hamburg.

The president of the European Council, Donald Tusk, said the agreement showed the EU's commitment to world trade: "We did it. We concluded EU-Japan political and trade talks. EU is more and more engaged globally."

Mr Tusk also said the deal countered the argument put forward by some of those in favour of Brexit that the EU was unable to promote free trade."

[Captain...]

14 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

EU & Japan agree outline free trade deal: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40520218

 

"The European Union and Japan have formally agreed an outline free-trade deal.

The agreement paves the way for trading in goods without tariff barriers between two of the world's biggest economic areas.

However, few specific details are known and a full, workable agreement may take some time.

Two of the most important sectors are Japanese cars and, for Europe, EU farming goods into Japan.

The outline plan was signed in Brussels after a meeting between the Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, and the European Commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, on the eve of a meeting of the G20 group of leading economies in Hamburg.

The president of the European Council, Donald Tusk, said the agreement showed the EU's commitment to world trade: "We did it. We concluded EU-Japan political and trade talks. EU is more and more engaged globally."

Mr Tusk also said the deal countered the argument put forward by some of those in favour of Brexit that the EU was unable to promote free trade."

It only took 6 years and will come into effect over 15 years, I'm sure our crack team of negotiators will whip up something better with Japan in no time.

 

[Carl the Llama]

At this rate we're going to be the only feckers on the planet without free trade with the EU 

[Buce]

21 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

At this rate we're going to be the only feckers on the planet without free trade with the EU 

 

But we will have a fully funded NHS with the £350,000,000 per week that we save.

 

Oh, wait..

[Innovindil]

9 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

But we will have a fully funded NHS with the £350,000,000 per week that we save.

 

Oh, wait..

 

[Rincewind]

54 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

But we will have a fully funded NHS with the £350,000,000 per week that we save.

 

Oh, wait..

No, it will be handed over  to the DUP for their preparation of Armageddon and their building of an Ark.

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

At this rate we're going to be the only feckers on the planet without free trade with the EU 

Should be easy to get one then, without the free movement of people stipulation.

[Innovindil]

40 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Should be easy to get one then, without the free movement of people stipulation.

Does make you wonder why we couldn't be offered similar terms doesn't it? 

 

Hell, maybe Japan have agreed to FoM? 

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Does make you wonder why we couldn't be offered similar terms doesn't it? 

 

Hell, maybe Japan have agreed to FoM? 

 

We would be if we remained in the EU.

 

When are you people going to understand? On our own we represent a tiny trading opportunity. This idea that the world will be queuing up to do business with us is just pie in the sky. We don't have an empire any more - we are just a small, insignificant island off the coast of Europe.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

19 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

We would be if we remained in the EU.

 

When are you people going to understand? On our own we represent a tiny trading opportunity. This idea that the world will be queuing up to do business with us is just pie in the sky. We don't have an empire any more - we are just a small, insignificant island off the coast of Europe.

Ok and by the way I am a remain voter but, this hyperbole doesn't wash with me.

 

We are one of the top consumer markets in the world STILL, and have STILL one of the biggest economies.

 

Of course Europe will want to trade with us, it just depends on the terms.

 

-The Germans will want to sell us cars

-The French will want to sell us Champagne

-The Spanish will want to sell us Veg

-The Italians Olive Oil etc etc

 

They don't do a deal and they potentially lose access to one of the biggest markets in the world, they will not want to do that if it can be helped. European companies will not want tariffs.

 

It will take time but if Europe plays funny beggars they will lose out. Starting a tariff war would be a very bad idea. The British market for products will still be here, if European good attract a tariff we can buy the same good elsewhere or heaven forbid start making some things ourselves again.

 

Europe has long needed reform, they failed to do it but by not doing a deal they really are cutting off their nose to spite their face. They have fecked up on immigration and are still failing, how long before Italy get pissed off? They need to have a bit of joined up thinking, Cameron wasn't far wrong when he suggested building safe haven  camps using aid money and supported by NGOs where people could apply to the countries they wish to go to and be taken directly, this would stop and not encourage this people trafficking that the EU have failed to tackle.

[Innovindil]

29 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

We would be if we remained in the EU.

 

When are you people going to understand? On our own we represent a tiny trading opportunity. This idea that the world will be queuing up to do business with us is just pie in the sky. We don't have an empire any more - we are just a small, insignificant island off the coast of Europe.

And still have to accept much that Japan and Canada don't? Sounds ****y.

 

And we're in the top 10 for biggest economies. Hardly small and insignificant.