Guest Kopfkino Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 16 minutes ago, Beechey said: Source? Because GDP growth in 2009 was -4.3%. And for the 1/3 of the year Labour were in office in 2010, the growth for that year was 1.9%. The average growth rate from 1997 to 2010 was 2.1% (during one of the biggest boom periods in living memory). Average growth between 2010 and 2018 was 1.93%. Where's the dropping like a stone here? Your statistics seem way off. Opposition parties always annoy me with their hollow rhetoric. The source would be taking the last quarter of Labour's term and annualising it. You'll go round in circles with Toddy on this, government spending is sacrosanct to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 16 minutes ago, Beechey said: Source? Because GDP growth in 2009 was -4.3%. And for the 1/3 of the year Labour were in office in 2010, the growth for that year was 1.9%. The average growth rate from 1997 to 2010 was 2.1% (during one of the biggest boom periods in living memory). Average growth between 2010 and 2018 was 1.93%. Where's the dropping like a stone here? Your statistics seem way off. Opposition parties always annoy me with their hollow rhetoric. Whole year growth for 2 years after the financial crisis dropped dramatically, yes. Then quarterly growth prior to labour losing office was much better then dropped following osborne trading up the reins. Growth was higher than 2.1% every year from the millennium through to the crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 1 minute ago, Kopfkino said: The source would be taking the last quarter of Labour's term and annualising it. You'll go round in circles with Toddy on this, government spending is sacrosanct to him. Yes. Tax increases > cuts >>>cuts focused on the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 How do you know that would have carried on? Even if Labour had got back in they would have had to stop spending...or the money may have ran out at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 Just now, Foxin_mad said: How do you know that would have carried on? Even if Labour had got back in they would have had to stop spending...or the money may have ran out at some point. You can see their budget before they left office, they proposed £80 billion worth of spending cuts and tax rises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 20 minutes ago, Strokes said: I know what I wrote there’s no need to be patronising. Do you think non of these legislations can be improved then? None of which legislation? What improvements do you want to be made to it? Why do you think we're uniquely positioned to make those improvements? Why do you believe our government is incentivised to make those specific improvements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 Labour were at that point economically illiterate, they still are. You are not going to get growth above 3-4% in a developed western nation anymore EVER. You especially wont get it under and high tax, anti businesses, class war leading government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 47 minutes ago, toddybad said: How can you hold them to account? Voting once every five years doesn't focus on one particular issue so it's difficult to hold a government to account for individual issues through elections. As it stands we can take our government to court in Europe. This is important. It's estimated that about 50,000 deaths a year are caused by air pollution. The government had done sod all to solve a huge issue killing our citizens. It's the European Court that has stepped in to hammer home our government's failure. Outside of the EU there'd have been nothing you could do. I'm hugely in favour of the ECJ having jurisdiction. Come on @Strokes I want to know your thoughts on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 (edited) Putting political differences aside, what's everyone's quick predictions for the Spring statement anyhow? Edited 13 March 2018 by Beechey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 55 minutes ago, toddybad said: How can you hold them to account? Voting once every five years doesn't focus on one particular issue so it's difficult to hold a government to account for individual issues through elections. As it stands we can take our government to court in Europe. This is important. It's estimated that about 50,000 deaths a year are caused by air pollution. The government had done sod all to solve a huge issue killing our citizens. It's the European Court that has stepped in to hammer home our government's failure. Outside of the EU there'd have been nothing you could do. I'm hugely in favour of the ECJ having jurisdiction. Can we take the EU to court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Labour were at that point economically illiterate, they still are. You are not going to get growth above 3-4% in a developed western nation anymore EVER. You especially wont get it under and high tax, anti businesses, class war leading government. Gordon Brown is widely credited as bein responsible for pulling together the G8 and implementing a credible worldwide plan to deal with the crisis. You just called the idea they'd got us growing horseshit then fine minutes later, when kopfkino explains how I arrived at the figure, backtrack to your normal position of well they were rubbish anyway. How you can state random numbers as fact is beyond me. Here's some real facts: The downturn was deeper and longer than it should have been because of Osborne's austerity politics. We remained in deficit longer than we needed to because of Osborne's austerity politics. The cost of austerity has been shown, through multiple versions of independent analysis, to have hit the poor hardest, and the cuts about to be implemented on welfare and working families continue to do so. To point out that it was the risks taken by rich bankers that got us into this mess, but the cuts have fallen on the pubic sector and the poor to get us out, is fact, not class warfare. Edited 13 March 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 40 minutes ago, toddybad said: But you've voted for a myth. The myth of what could be. Because you have no facts of what will be. One word. Punt. Bite me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 Just now, Strokes said: Can we take the EU to court? What laws does it manage that you'd need to? When does the EU interact with you personally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 10 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: None of which legislation? What improvements do you want to be made to it? Human rights workers rights, ya know what we’ve been conversing about. 10 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Why do you think we're uniquely positioned to make those improvements? Why do you believe our government is incentivised to make those specific improvements? I’ve not said they should or would, I’ve said they could. We are uniquely positioned because unlike other Eu states we will be able to change things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kopfkino Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 12 minutes ago, Beechey said: Putting political differences aside, what's everyone's quick predictions for the Spring statement anyhow? Boring and empty. There's going to be nothing of note announced, just an upgrading of economic forecasts (they can't manage to get it right in 3 month intervals, lord knows why people think they're going to right about 2030). Hammond is probably the worst thing about May's electoral failure. A better showing and she could have got rid of him and replaced him with someone with an actual economic plan or just some semblance of ambition and idea. It's all rather depressing that we have a stale government without any real ideas that is failing to push back against Marx and Engels opposite. The electorate rejected Miliband in 2015 and a year later essentially got him imposed on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 24 minutes ago, toddybad said: What laws does it manage that you'd need to? When does the EU interact with you personally? Why does it need to interact with me personally to affect me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 2 hours ago, Bryn said: Really is time to chuck Brexit out the window with all this going on with Russia. Really horrendous time to be distancing ourselves from the international community. We will probably have to be slightly more obsequious towards the US than I'd like as well. I think all this is the real deal, I think Russia are quite prepared to go to war in the next 10-15 years. 1 While I see what is being said here...with whom? Picking an overt fight with any NATO member is the first move in an escalation that would not only be catastrophic, but inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 9 minutes ago, Strokes said: Why does it need to interact with me personally to affect me? Oh...so now the suffering of strangers moves you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: While I see what is being said here...with whom? Picking an overt fight with any NATO member is the first move in an escalation that would not only be catastrophic, but inevitable. Well in fairness, they are at war with Ukraine in all but name right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 Just now, Beechey said: Well in fairness, they are at war with Ukraine in all but name right now What nonsense. If the Russian military machine was engaged in a war against Ukraine, it would be over in days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 29 minutes ago, Strokes said: Human rights workers rights, ya know what we’ve been conversing about. I’ve not said they should or would, I’ve said they could. We are uniquely positioned because unlike other Eu states we will be able to change things. But we haven't been conversing about it, we've been conversing around it, you're arguing without making any arguments and I'm trying to get something solid to either respond to or agree with. And EU states can't change which things? It just sounds like another non-sequitur, one at odds with the point that we need to leave the EU because of the changes they've imposed on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Beechey said: Well in fairness, they are at war with Ukraine in all but name right now That's the highly deniable kind, however. For me, this is just the latest round of smoke and mirrors to try and indulge the egos of those engaging in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: Oh...so now the suffering of strangers moves you? It always has, we just have different ways of thinking what the problem is and what the solution is. We’ve said numerous times the political motivations seems to have shifted and the so called left are all of a sudden pro business and pro profit. The left case for brexit has always been resoundingly stronger, it’s just you guys are not really left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 3 minutes ago, Strokes said: It always has, we just have different ways of thinking what the problem is and what the solution is. We’ve said numerous times the political motivations seems to have shifted and the so called left are all of a sudden pro business and pro profit. The left case for brexit has always been resoundingly stronger, it’s just you guys are not really left. TBH right now I have zero opinion on Brexit beyond the scientific one - if going it alone means that we don't cease collaboration in any way in scientific matters with our European counterparts and keep robust environmental regs, then fair enough. I'm unsure about either of those things, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 13 March 2018 Share Posted 13 March 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Buce said: What nonsense. If the Russian military machine was engaged in a war against Ukraine, it would be over in days. Jesus Christ, are you serious? Are you saying Russia is not engaging in military operations of any kind in Ukraine? Let me guess, it was the Ukrainians that shot down MH17 (using the Buk missile system that they don't operate)? Crimea is rightful Russian territory! Who mentioned anything about Russia using all its might? Invading a country, arming rebels and destabalising it through hybrid warfare is war in all but name. I frankly don't care if you disagree, that's a fact. The idea that you think a war is only a war when a country uses all of its forces is both hilarious and depressing. Edited 13 March 2018 by Beechey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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