Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[David Guiza]

Whilst on the (earlier) subject of schools - the current Government have done far more damage to the education system than any recent Labour Government.

• Spending needless money on changing the grading system from ABC to 123 (you and me girl)
• Cutting arts subjects left right and centre.
• Cutting support staff.
• The fact that the number of teachers that have quit either during their education or in the first few years is astronomical - thanks to the ridiculous workload. 
• The IFS stated that school funding would fall by almost 3% by 2021 - even with the Conservative 'additional £1bn per year'. 
• The recruitment target has not been met for teachers for five successive years.

This is not a case of saying that under Labour we would all have PHDs and the average Mastermind score would be three figures, it's that the current Government are failing both the education system from teachers and support staff to pupils and higher education students. 

 

It's fine though because Damian Hinds is supposedly going to rescue the mess created by his own party. 

 

 

[Rogstanley]

14 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Wages are nose diving as you put it due to the import of cheap unskilled foreign labour, so you should be pleased to hear then that Brexit should start to reverse this trend. Obviously if there are a lot of people coming into the economy who will do a job for less it will keep wages down, once we have high employment and the cheap labour supply dries up wages will increase, there are already signs of that happening. 

 

You want higher wages, high taxation all that will lead to is more unemployment and more reliance upon the state. How is that a good thing for ordinary people? If you increase the tax and wage burden on business they will protect profits by cutting staff. 

 

The increased tax take isn't being spent because we are still paying off Labours deficit, of course we know that you would like some more spending and more debt, maybe some hyperinflation. Something for our grandchildren's, children's, children to pay off.  

 

How that is supposed to be a good thing for ordinary people is still a mystery to me, but you lot show no signs in letting up your worship of a failed policies that will make everyone in the country poorer and only serve the twisted egos of a few far left zealots. 

 

We had immigration under Labour too and wages boomed.

 

There is no evidence that slight increases in tax lead to reduced employment.

 

The deficit is gone, paid for by increased dividend taxes. Austerity continues because it was never really about the deficit.

 

Everything you believe is false.

[Fox Ulike]

14 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Just seen a tweet claiming Corbyn doesn't believe there's proof that the nerve agent is linked to Russia which if true (from the Sun) is a 100% valid reason for being upset with the guy, but I haven't seen anybody mention that in here so it's clearly not what's sparked the angry reaction from a couple of posters above which I'm still a bit confused about.  If @Kopfkino or @Beechey could clarify what they're responding to I'd appreciate it because clearly I'm missing something.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-russia-position-conservatives-labour-mps-unimpressed-public-opinon-a8255301.html

 

I think it's this.

 

Corbyn just seems to be asking the PM what she's actually done about it in terms of standing up to the Russians. Has she complained to the Russian Government or is she just spaffing for the sake of the optics? Does she have any evidence of Russian state involvement?

 

Of course, these days no-one is interested in evidence.

 

So no it's not true. It's just spin. These problems always seem to occur when due political process meets uninformed public opinion.

Edited 14 March 2018 by Fox Ulike

[Guest Foxin_mad]

2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

 

We had immigration under Labour too and wages boomed.

 

There is no evidence that slight increases in tax lead to reduced employment.

 

The deficit is gone, paid for by increased dividend taxes. Austerity continues because it was never really about the deficit.

 

Everything you believe is false.

Wages boomed. Really? Mine wasn't booming, especially considering house prices went up about 200% during Labours reign. 

 

Slight increases in tax? No evidence they don't either if you want to play it that way. 

 

Austerity is a myth.

 

We still have to be careful what we spend because we have a massive national debt that is still increasing. But its ok because its cheap debt.

 

Everything you believe is false also, especially about Corbyns cuddly socialism. 

 

 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

We all know Corbyn and his puppet master Seamus Milne the commie cvnts want us to be allies with Comrade Putin anyway, why dont they just admit it? They are both in deep with Russia as it seems is Mr Trump. 

 

Something to do with them being complete lying bastards? 

 

If Corbyn wants us to provide samples to Russia, he should have no problems with Russia providing samples from the Syrian regime they support, on the suspected use of chemical weapons. Of course he wont because he is a twat. 

Edited 14 March 2018 by Foxin_mad

[Buce]

 

What a load of bollux being spoken about Corbyn.

 

It is standard and accepted procedure that all parties are given samples to test.

 

 

[Fox Ulike]

11 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

We all know Corbyn and his puppet master Seamus Milne the commie cvnts want us to be allies with Comrade Putin anyway, why dont they just admit it? They are both in deep with Russia as it seems is Mr Trump. 

 

Something to do with them being complete lying bastards? 

 

If Corbyn wants us to provide samples to Russia, he should have no problems with Russia providing samples from the Syrian regime they support, on the suspected use of chemical weapons. Of course he wont because he is a twat. 

So hold on a minute. I'm confused about this now.

 

Do we have any actual evidence that Russia is behind the use of the nerve agent? Surely there must be something.

 

Why wouldn't we send a sample to Russia? Surely we would do this to show them that they are banged to rights.

 

Or is May happy to just white-wash the whole thing in Daily Mail rhetoric? I would hope not.

[Rogstanley]

It's like some people spend all day frantically looking for anything they can use to criticise Corbyn. Why aren't you spending your time being productive like good little Tories?

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Wages are nose diving as you put it due to the import of cheap unskilled foreign labour, so you should be pleased to hear then that Brexit should start to reverse this trend. Obviously if there are a lot of people coming into the economy who will do a job for less it will keep wages down, once we have high employment and the cheap labour supply dries up wages will increase, there are already signs of that happening. 

 

You want higher wages, high taxation all that will lead to is more unemployment and more reliance upon the state. How is that a good thing for ordinary people? If you increase the tax and wage burden on business they will protect profits by cutting staff. 

 

The increased tax take isn't being spent because we are still paying off Labours deficit, of course we know that you would like some more spending and more debt, maybe some hyperinflation. Something for our grandchildren's, children's, children to pay off.  

 

How that is supposed to be a good thing for ordinary people is still a mystery to me, but you lot show no signs in letting up your worship of a failed policies that will make everyone in the country poorer and only serve the twisted egos of a few far left zealots. 

Bollocks.

Wages increased significantly during Labour's time in power which coincided with much of the immigration the right deplores. 

I'm actually closer to the tory position than the labour one on immigration but the idea that all the ills of our society are down to immigrating is rubbish.

You can't just state things as fact when most independent analysis concludes that immigration has made our country richer and it was the strength of our economy, in part enriched through increased manpower from overseas, that allowed wages to go up.

The latest forecasts shows that wages won't reach the never that are at before the crisis (adjusted for inflation) until 2025 - 17 years after the event.

It's tory mismanagement and nothing else that's led to this.

And labour most certainly were not at fault for the financial crisis.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/labour-made-mistakes-but-causing-the-crash-was-not-one-of-them-10286820.html

 

https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/10/16/osborne-admits-labour-did-not-cause-the-great-recession-2/

 

Edited 14 March 2018 by Guest

[CarbonVirtine]

4 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said:

Do we have any actual evidence that Russia is behind the use of the nerve agent? Surely there must be something.

 

Why wouldn't we send a sample to Russia? Surely we would do this to show them that they are banged to rights.

It's not quite adding up for me, that's for sure. Not that I expect MI5 (or whoever) to be on the phone telling me what's what. The general public obviously won't be told everything, but I do find myself asking questions.

 

There has to be something pretty damned conclusive to go issuing deadlines as May has... unless of course she's just posturing and wants to be made to look like a noisy chump.

[Carl the Llama]

Perhaps there should be a referendum on whether we think Russia is responsible.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

5 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Bollocks.

Wages increased significantly during Labour's time in power which coincided with much of the immigration the right deplores. 

I'm actually closer to the tory position than the labour one on immigration but the idea that all the ills of our society are down to immigrating is rubbish.

You can't just state things as fact when most independent analysis concludes that immigration has made our country richer and it was the strength of our economy, in part enriched through increased manpower from overseas, that allowed wages to go up.

The latest forecasts shows that wages won't reach the never that are at before the crisis (adjusted for inflation) until 2025 - 17 years after the event.

It's tory mismanagement and nothing else that's led to this.

Wages increased because it was supposedly a boom period. They had to increase to keep up with house prices rising about 200% in some areas. I am not sure how the immigration numbers and when the mass immigration from the Eastern block countries with massive disparities in living conditions occurred and the impact this had on wages, obviously they took a massive decline from 2008 onwards due to the so called global recession. 

 

I don't think I have ever said immigration is bad per se what I am saying is that cheap unskilled labour is bad, we are being flooded with low skilled jobs which are holding down wages. I don't think anyone can possibly argue that thousands of people coming from Romania to pick strawberries for minimum wages (which is probably 5 times there weekly average wage) is a good thing, it just isn't. 

 

The Tory mismanagement part is utter Horse Shit again. 

 

You cant have it all ways there is record employment, would you rather higher wages and more unemployment? Part of the problem under Labour were the large number of state sponsored voters they tried to acquire by getting them hooked on a life of benefits instead of trying to give them the aspiration to get a job and support themselves. The sense of entitlement of people from that generation is often astounding they expect everything to be given to them on a silver plate. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

21 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said:

So hold on a minute. I'm confused about this now.

 

Do we have any actual evidence that Russia is behind the use of the nerve agent? Surely there must be something.

 

Why wouldn't we send a sample to Russia? Surely we would do this to show them that they are banged to rights.

 

Or is May happy to just white-wash the whole thing in Daily Mail rhetoric? I would hope not.

 

it can only be produced in so many labs globally. The guy double crossed the Russians and they have a history of this kind of behaviour. 

 

If we send them a sample they will still deny it, but to be honest if it were me I would send one anyway. 

 

I don't really see what we would have to gain by pissing them off really either? 

[Fox Ulike]

5 minutes ago, CarbonVirtine said:

It's not quite adding up for me, that's for sure. Not that I expect MI5 (or whoever) to be on the phone telling me what's what. The general public obviously won't be told everything, but I do find myself asking questions.

 

There has to be something pretty damned conclusive to go issuing deadlines as May has... unless of course she's just posturing and wants to be made to look like a noisy chump.

To be fair, I was OK with May's response. I understand that there's a degree of posturing required from our PM. It's part of her job.

 

But it's Corbyn's job to hold May accountable. That's what the Leader of the Opposition is there for. As, incidentally, should be the press.

 

As far as I can see, all he's asking is "What are you actually doing about this?"

 

It really says something about the state of our Democracy when the leader of the opposition is criticised for refusing to be swept along with the populist tide. No-one is prepared to stand up to the likes of the Daily Mail in defence of British parliamentary process.

 

The monkeys have taken over the peanut factory.

[Fox Ulike]

2 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

 

it can only be produced in so many labs globally. The guy double crossed the Russians and they have a history of this kind of behaviour. 

 

If we send them a sample they will still deny it, but to be honest if it were me I would send one anyway. 

 

I don't really see what we would have to gain by pissing them off really either? 

So why are you criticising Corbyn for asking if this has been done?

[Guest Foxin_mad]

Its not so much what he is asking its more the fact that he is a militant fvcker who always has to do something to be party political or attract attention to himself. 

 

We do not actually know that we haven't sent a sample and neither does he.

 

Fact of the matter is Corbyn and Seamus Milne are cosy with the Russians so have another agenda here. He is quick to criticise donations to the Tory party but he is the one who appears on Russian State propaganda TV! 

 

The man is very strange. 

 

Russia is quite clearly a very dubious nation which is absolutely fine as long as they keep themselves to themselves. 

[Buce]

8 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

 

it can only be produced in so many labs globally. The guy double crossed the Russians and they have a history of this kind of behaviour. 

 

If we send them a sample they will still deny it, but to be honest if it were me I would send one anyway. 

 

I don't really see what we would have to gain by pissing them off really either? 

 

Under the Chemical Weapons Convention (article IX subsection 2) it is the agreed legal position that the accused state be given a sample. May is not complying with International Law.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

Just now, Buce said:

 

Under the Chemical Weapons Convention (article IX subsection 2) it is the agreed legal position that the accused state be given a sample. May is not complying with International Law.

Do we know for sure we haven't? 

[Countryfox]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Under the Chemical Weapons Convention (article IX subsection 2) it is the agreed legal position that the accused state be given a sample. May is not complying with International Law.

 

Those Ruskies ought to kick out a load of our diplomats and teach us a lesson ! ...    not sending a sample is a heinous crime ...   certainly up there with poisoning old spies with chemical weapons !!   ...     It makes me ashamed to be British ! ...    i

[Fox Ulike]

4 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Do we know for sure we haven't? 

I don't think we know either way. Which is kind of the point.

 

It's May's vagueness and inability to commit to a decisive plan of action that is being questioned. But, as ever, it's Corbyn who gets criticised for pointing this out!

 

And people just lap it up.

 

[Salisbury Fox]

10 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Under the Chemical Weapons Convention (article IX subsection 2) it is the agreed legal position that the accused state be given a sample. May is not complying with International Law.

I don't believe that it actually states that an accused state shall be given a sample.  From what I can find: A State Party which receives a request from another State Party for clarification of any matter which the requesting State Party believes causes such a doubt or concern shall provide the requesting State Party as soon as possible, but in any case not later than 10 days after the request.

 

From this I don't believe that TM is not complying with International Law.  She has requested answers from the Russians within the 10 days limit and with none forthcoming has taken a proportionate response.  I am surprised that there is so much defence of the Russians on here given the recent history with flight MH17, the little green men in Ukraine and Crimea and the state sponsored drug cheating.  

[Guest Foxin_mad]

13 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said:

 

 

I don't think we know either way. Which is kind of the point.

 

It's May's vagueness and inability to commit to a decisive plan of action that is being questioned. But, as ever, it's Corbyn who gets criticised for pointing this out!

 

And people just lap it up.

 

But why does he need to raise issue on something he knows nothing about? May has clearly set out her position. Russia seems to be quite obstructive. 

 

He is a cantankerous old cvnt who just likes to be deliberately militant against the government position because he can, its quite right the commie bastard is called out for what he is. He sympathises with these rogue states and has a record of it. 

 

I don't know why people stick up for him to be honest, he is a despicable nasty man. 

Edited 14 March 2018 by Foxin_mad

[Fox Ulike]

4 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

But why does he need to raise issue on something he knows nothing about? May has clearly set out her position. Russia seems to be quite obstructive. 

 

He is a cantankerous old cvnt who just likes to be deliberately militant against the government position because he can, its quite right the commie bastard is called out for what he is. He sympathises with these rogue states and has a record of it. 

 

I don't know why people stick up for him to be honest, he is a despicable nasty man. 

 

That's what Parliament is for. He's the Leader of the Opposition and he's asked the Prime Minister a question about the Chemical Weapons Convention. That's his job.

 

To be honest, i'm not really sticking up for him. What worries me is the way that he's portrayed in the media when things like this happens. I'm trying to stick up for democracy.

 

I mean, put aside your hatred of him for a minute. Imagine somebody else had said exactly the same thing. What exactly is it that he's said to cause the Daily Mail and other media outlets to deride him so??

 

The day we have to worry about is when we don't have a "cantankerous old cvnt" on the opposition benches who is prepared to ask the PM difficult questions.

 

 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

10 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said:

 

That's what Parliament is for. He's the Leader of the Opposition and he's asked the Prime Minister a question about the Chemical Weapons Convention. That's his job.

 

To be honest, i'm not really sticking up for him. What worries me is the way that he's portrayed in the media when things like this happens. I'm trying to stick up for democracy.

 

I mean, put aside your hatred of him for a minute. Imagine somebody else had said exactly the same thing. What exactly is it that he's said to cause the Daily Mail and other media outlets to deride him so??

 

The day we have to worry about is when we don't have a "cantankerous old cvnt" on the opposition benches who is prepared to ask the PM difficult questions.

 

 

Funny how he only asks the questions when it suits his agenda though.

 

I think the issue here is that he always has a an attitude to be a militant and cause a scene for his cause, it is well known that his puppet master Milne and Corbyn are massively pro Russia, they refuse to condemn their actions.

 

Obviously I would expect there to be pretty conclusive evidence, why would we want to pick a fight with Russia otherwise? They quite clearly are very willing to play dirty so they are certainly not someone you would want as your enemies unless they did something really bad. 

 

At the end of the day a Russian traitor has been attacked with a nerve agent on British soil. I would expect Corbyn to prove if it is not the Russians who is responsible for this and why? If that is his stance. 

 

Its all very well Corbyn quoting conventions and the left saying what a great man he his for getting in schematics, at the end of the day there has been an attempted murder of a person on British soil using a chemical weapon and Corbyn doesn't seem to be bothered about this, he is more interested in a convention. 

Edited 14 March 2018 by Foxin_mad

[Webbo]

1 hour ago, Rogstanley said:

It's like some people spend all day frantically looking for anything they can use to criticise Corbyn. Why aren't you spending your time being productive like good little Tories?

Come off it Moose you used to rip the piss out of the lefties on here. there's no way you believe Corbyn's anything other than a knobhead.