Fox Ulike Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: I don't think he needs a 'direct quote' to be angry to be honest and I doubt he reads the 'Daily Mail'. The whole of Corbyn's attitude towards this from Monday has been pretty disgusting in my opinion and obviously others, he is being deliberately obtrusive because that is the kind of man he is a militant. Other people within the Labour party have taken the correct approach Corbyn has not in certain peoples views. He has handled the whole thing wrong, and he knows it which is why he is now backtracking slightly as usual. Obviously the Guardian readers here will never have anything bad said against their comrade and that is not a problem. Obviously the left get angry about so called austerity and cuts because they are told about it from the Guardian, they get angry about the 'Tory Scum' and the nasty rich men because the Guardian tell them to be angry. It pretty much goes all ways. Have there ever been any direct quotes from Tory Ministers saying the following: - They will sell the NHS - They want to screw the poor - They want the rich to get richer - They want lots of homeless people However, the Guardian are happy to print this divisive tripe on a daily basis in the hope that it will feed peoples anger, the Mirror, Mail, Express and Sun do similar. Much of this is based on a personal viewpoint and feeling an individual has as to how they react and everyone is perfectly entitled to react how they see fit. I think we will have to agree to disagree here. How can you be angry at something that someone has said yet not be able to quote a single word of it? It’s just a conditioned response. OK you and he might not read the Daily Mail, but you have been conditioned to react in a certain way to any negative news about Corbyn, regardless of the source. I wish you could take a step back from the situation and look at it as an outsider. I mean, you say that you’re disgusted by his attitude. Disgust? Seriously? Do you think that’s a political position? Don’t you ever question where these emotions come from: Anger and Disgust at a 68 year old man’s attitude whilst asking about the Chemical Weapons Convention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kopfkino Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Fox Ulike said: We’re two days into this now and you still haven’t been able to provide a direct quote from Corbyn that justifies your “anger”. You’re just working off second-hand sources: which is the same as being told what to think. Don’t you see that? You’re not angry. You’re fake-angry. You’re just evincing the fake outrage that you think is appropriate to the over-reaction to this latest Corbyn stictch-ups. The Daily Mail etc tells you that this is something to be angry about, and you react according to their will. People pretended to be angry when it was said he supported Slobadon Milosovic and his war crimes.. I know you were fake-angry when he was accused of passing state secrets to the Russians. Save your anger for things deserving of it. It's always the same on here. If you disagree with then it must be cos you've swallowed the Daily Mail's line. Either that or a very select couple of members turn aggressive and abusive. I haven't see any of their coverage (I follow Dan Hodges on Twitter but I've only seen his retweets of Chris Williamson). I watched both his statements live and formed my own conclusions. I read quite an array of sources (more so than our Guardian-linking friends lol) I was angry he turned a severe matter of national security into party politics, I as annoyed that he chose to follow Russian questioning, I have since been annoyed by his distrust of the intelligence services because Iraq. The man is not fit to lead the country (the people behind him more than he on his own), that he's in a position where he ever might is worrying. But yeah go ahead, anyone that doesn't quite share your exact view has been brainwashed by the Daily Mail. Top work pal. As an aside, people would be wise to read the positions of some of the genuine Labour supporters across the commentariat. Their pain at what their party has been dragged through by this lot is palpable. They're right, this is the Labour Party in name only. Edited 16 March 2018 by Kopfkino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 9 minutes ago, Kopfkino said: It's always the same on here. If you disagree with then it must be cos you've swallowed the Daily Mail's line. Either that or a very select couple of members turn aggressive and abusive. I haven't see any of their coverage (I follow Dan Hodges on Twitter but I've only seen his retweets of Chris Williamson). I watched both his statements live and formed my own conclusions. I read quite an array of sources (more so than our Guardian-linking friends lol) I was angry he turned a severe matter of national security into party politics, I as annoyed that he chose to follow Russian questioning, I have since been annoyed by his distrust of the intelligence services because Iraq. The man is not fit to lead the country (the people behind him more than he on his own), that he's in a position where he ever might is worrying. But yeah go ahead, anyone that doesn't quite share your exact view has been brainwashed by the Daily Mail. Top work pal. As an aside, people would be wise to read the positions of some of the genuine Labour supporters across the commentariat. Their pain at what their party has been dragged through by this lot is palpable. They're right, this is the Labour Party in name only. Not quite. What I said was that anyone who gets angry without being able to clearly express why, has been conditioned to respond in that way. It’s quite a common psychological phenomena called Pavlonian Conditioning. You’re feelings of anger are a response to Corbyn himself, not actually anything he’s done or said this week. How else do you explain being angry but unable to define what he’s said to make you so? Where do you get most of your information about Corbyn from? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kopfkino Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Not quite. What I said was that anyone who gets angry without being able to clearly express why, has been conditioned to respond in that way. It’s quite a common psychological phenomena called Pavlonian Conditioning. You’re feelings of anger are a response to Corbyn himself, not actually anything he’s done or said this week. How else do you explain being angry but unable to define what he’s said to make you so? Where do you get most of your information about Corbyn from? I've just told you, I was angry at his party politicking when the sitting Prime Minister has just stood up to brief parliament on a chemical weapon attack in the UK. I had said it before. Daily Mail and The Sun. Edited 16 March 2018 by Kopfkino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Kopfkino said: I've just told you, I was angry at his party politicking when the sitting Prime Minister has just stood up to brief parliament on a chemical weapon attack in the UK. I had said it before. Daily Mail and The Sun. I know. But don’t you think it odd that you can’t quote anything he’s said that’s made you angry? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 2 hours ago, Fox Ulike said: How can you be angry at something that someone has said yet not be able to quote a single word of it? It’s just a conditioned response. OK you and he might not read the Daily Mail, but you have been conditioned to react in a certain way to any negative news about Corbyn, regardless of the source. I wish you could take a step back from the situation and look at it as an outsider. I mean, you say that you’re disgusted by his attitude. Disgust? Seriously? Do you think that’s a political position? Don’t you ever question where these emotions come from: Anger and Disgust at a 68 year old man’s attitude whilst asking about the Chemical Weapons Convention. I am yes because he is questioning the position of the government, giving preference to a questionable 3rd state. To me that is pretty disgusting but that is my own opinion. And we have complied with that apparently unless you or he has evidence to the contrary?. Why would he doubt that we would comply with international obligations? Because he is a left wing anti establishment militant maybe? Again are you disgusted by the so called 'tory cuts' from the so called 'tory scum' does that make you angry, have you been sold a line by the Guardian? Of course we are all entitled to feel however we feel about situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 6 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: I am yes because he is questioning the position of the government, giving preference to a questionable 3rd state. To me that is pretty disgusting but that is my own opinion. And we have complied with that apparently unless you or he has evidence to the contrary?. Why would he doubt that we would comply with international obligations? Because he is a left wing anti establishment militant maybe? Again are you disgusted by the so called 'tory cuts' from the so called 'tory scum' does that make you angry, have you been sold a line by the Guardian? Of course we are all entitled to feel however we feel about situations. I've been very even handed with my opinion on the Corbyn response. But where did he give preference to Russia? It seems to me that he simply asked two questions about what actions the government had taken. I don't see how this is wrong for an opposition leader. I absolutely believe that arguments are being pushed simply to diminish him(again) without any solid foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 1 minute ago, toddybad said: I've been very even handed with my opinion on the Corbyn response. But where did he give preference to Russia? It seems to me that he simply asked two questions about what actions the government had taken. I don't see how this is wrong for an opposition leader. I absolutely believe that arguments are being pushed simply to diminish him(again) without any solid foundation. You have and all credit to you. He asked the exact same questions asked by the Russians. I don't see what reasons he had to question the governments actions. This is a matter of national security. In my opinion he should not be questioning the government, especially when he is directly asking the same question as Lavrov. Why does he assume the democratically elected government of a respectable state would not comply to international law, why would he repeat the Russian accusations and questions without waiting. To be honest this response has been measured and not over the top, we await the results of the international tests and may take further action. So far we have removed a few meaningless diplomats.....really who cares! Doesn't mean I am correct, its the way I feel and it seems a hell of a lot of Labour voters in my area too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: You have and all credit to you. He asked the exact same questions asked by the Russians. I don't see what reasons he had to question the governments actions. This is a matter of national security. In my opinion he should not be questioning the government, especially when he is directly asking the same question as Lavrov. Why does he assume the democratically elected government of a respectable state would not comply to international law, why would he repeat the Russian accusations and questions without waiting. To be honest this response has been measured and not over the top, we await the results of the international tests and may take further action. So far we have removed a few meaningless diplomats.....really who cares! Doesn't mean I am correct, its the way I feel and it seems a hell of a lot of Labour voters in my area too. I'm personally more concerned with the twattish responses of the foreign Secretary and defence secretary. Boris as usual bumbling through giving the impression he's making it up as he goes along and Williamson with the"Russia can go away and shut up". Absolutely embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 if its good enough for you its good enough for me **** Theresa May we only want JC if its good enough for you its good enough for me ifs he’s a Russian stooge then i’m a commie too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 http://www.itv.com/news/2018-03-16/emotional-headteacher-warns-of-dire-consequences-of-funding-crisis-in-englands-schools/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 http://www.itv.com/news/2018-03-16/mbe-nurse-93-describes-heartbreaking-hospital-stay-after-being-left-in-corridor-for-six-days/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, toddybad said: http://www.itv.com/news/2018-03-16/mbe-nurse-93-describes-heartbreaking-hospital-stay-after-being-left-in-corridor-for-six-days/ Unfortunately, she may not be the last victim of staff shortages and lack of funding to make NHS services more efficient. Edited 17 March 2018 by Wymeswold fox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 March 2018 Share Posted 16 March 2018 16 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said: Unfortunately, she may not be the last victim of staff shortages and lack of finding to make NHS services more efficient. I did question whether to put the second one up. The school one though is extremely telling. My daughter's school has dropped hours this year and is practically begging for parent funding so I know the school mentioned isn't on its own. I'm genuinely worried about what'll be left when this government finally falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 How serious ,is this Talk/issue over Parent funding for Schools..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 32 minutes ago, fuchsntf said: How serious ,is this Talk/issue over Parent funding for Schools..?? Schools aren't allowed to require parental contributions but, in practice, can no longer survive without them. It's absolutely ridiculous that we've reached a point where the nhs can't even get people in.off the ambulances, councils are going under and schools can't even open 5 days a week. These aren't services at the edges of the public sector, these are smack bang on the middle of government services. And they've been starved of cash to a point that is heinous. Absolutely heinous. I want, just for once, one of our right wingers to admit that this has gotten out of hand, it just isn't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardinio'sCat Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 15 hours ago, Strokes said: Mate we can all learn off each other, I think you are one of the most pleasant posters to deal and debate with on politics. It would be a shame if you stopped your thoughtful contributions because of a difference in humours. Thanks for that. Having reflected about how I handle this kind of thing, a simple statement of my feelings, without the heat, followed by a clear expression that we are all different in how we see the world, would work. I can generally disagree with people without losing my rag, but I guess we all have our moments. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardinio'sCat Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 10 hours ago, Kopfkino said: I've just told you, I was angry at his party politicking when the sitting Prime Minister has just stood up to brief parliament on a chemical weapon attack in the UK. I had said it before. Daily Mail and The Sun. Were you angry at Cameron and May over Litvinenko though? Was it 9 years of fudge? That was a radiological attack on the UK, hardly any less serious than what we have now, and we did little or nothing. I bet you were raging... Not that I thought it was Corbyn's best moment in the Commons, of course. But who has repeatedly been in favour of a Maginsky (sp?) Act? And who against? And who has been warned by Litvinenko's widow about who they take money from (was it £3m since 2010)? Check out John Sweeney's interesting piece on Russian money and our politics on Newsnight from 12'30' - 20'00". Some interesting observations on Tory and New Labour links to Russian money from Peter Oborne (associate editor of The Spectator, that well known left-wing rag ). It wasn't Corbyn on Deripaska's yacht (after Litvinenko), it was Osbourne and Mandelson... https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09w3nst/newsnight-16032018 We have seen this bellicose, march to war fever so many times, and Corbyn has traditionally stood against it, and often been seen to have a fair point, once the dust has settled. I didn't think he made a very good fist of it in the Commons myself, but given he has to watch his back as well as his front, at least he tried to ask some relevant questions. TM is now signed up to having a Maginsky act, one might say that Labour and Corbyn were right all along, on that at least. The more people try and slur Corbyn without just cause, the less credible they become. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardinio'sCat Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 2 hours ago, toddybad said: I did question whether to put the second one up. The school one though is extremely telling. My daughter's school has dropped hours this year and is practically begging for parent funding so I know the school mentioned isn't on its own. I'm genuinely worried about what'll be left when this government finally falls. It was interesting that Paul Johnson of the (widely respected) IFS said that austerity was just about contained til about 2013-14, but since then it has really bitten all over. He highlighted Prisons and the NHS. I can't remember if he mentioned schools and social care, but the same applies. I basically agree that austerity has been ripping the social fabric of this country apart. I would bet my last pound that Brexit would never have won if this ideologically driven madness had not been sold to the country. It has been known since the 30's how you deal with recessions, and it isn't like this. Osborne's reprise of Thatcher's kitchen table economics has been a disaster of historic proportions, giving us the slowest recovery from recession in modern British history, and we are once again back to being 'the sick man of Europe'. I think it will be looked back on as our worst period since the retreat from Empire and Suez, in the 1950's. And lets face it, the UK's survival cannot be taken for granted. Those Bullingdon Boys have made a right (Eton) mess of it all, and the history books will not be kind to them, or their supporters. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/17/people-dont-trust-us-on-nhs-and-schools-theresa-may-admits No shit, Sherlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 9 minutes ago, Buce said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/17/people-dont-trust-us-on-nhs-and-schools-theresa-may-admits No shit, Sherlock. She cares She will talk about her own story. “Mine starts with state schools which helped me to get into a great university and set me on course for a rewarding career … When I was diagnosed with diabetes, the NHS was there for me. Skilled and compassionate, helping me every step of the way to manage my condition and live a normal life. I rely on the NHS everyday and I am eternally grateful to them.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: She cares She will talk about her own story. “Mine starts with state schools which helped me to get into a great university and set me on course for a rewarding career … When I was diagnosed with diabetes, the NHS was there for me. Skilled and compassionate, helping me every step of the way to manage my condition and live a normal life. I rely on the NHS everyday and I am eternally grateful to them.” Course she does, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Buce said: Course she does, bro. Pavlovian conditioning 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 1 minute ago, Strokes said: Pavlovian conditioning That's far too deep for this time on a Saturday morning, mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 March 2018 Share Posted 17 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Buce said: That's far too deep for this time on a Saturday morning, mate. Ah it was a cheap shot anyway. Wasted on you buce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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