Guest Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said: “Bang on” Tbf they were the only ones calling it even until their final poll where they bottled it and sent out something like the others. But no polls are worth looking at at this point in a parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 2 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said: I assume your employer are not holding a gun to your head and making you work there against your will? Rather than sounding like an entitled Arsenal fan, why don't you pro-actively do something about your own situation rather than wait for the government to sort your life out? Trouble is Izzy that in the public services you genuinely understand that you are there for something greater than earning a few quid. Either for yourself or a company etc. I don't want to work in the private sector tbh. I don't want to serve shareholders or define myself by profit margins. I want to deliver the best possible service I can for the greater good. Hence the fact I, like millions of others, have accepted a 15% cut in real terms wages over the last 8 years. My only complaint is that apparently we're about to see wages increasing inn this country bit for some reason it's those that work for the benefit of others that seem to take the hit every time. It would probably benefit this conversation if we recognised that the public services benefit the private sector both through service provision but also because hundreds of billions are spent by the public sector into the private sector. It benefits nobody having a public sector that is falling apart and underfunded. It benefits nobody being at the point where you're saying that public sector workers should leave their jobs in search of better pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 3 hours ago, Strokes said: Governments borrowing money, is just delayed taxes. We are paying for those wage rises now instead of at the time. No it bloody isn't. Taxes don't exist to raise money for expenditure. Taxes exist as a means to control the amount of money in the economy. Tax policy affects who it is that has the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 5 minutes ago, toddybad said: No it bloody isn't. Taxes don't exist to raise money for expenditure. Taxes exist as a means to control the amount of money in the economy. Tax policy affects who it is that has the money. Yes it bloody is, if you borrow now, you pay it back the interest at the very least. We pay £50billion a year in interest for the national debt, that is paid for by the taxpayer. That is delayed tax, it was spent and benefited by a different generation and we are paying for it. Do you not think the NHS could do with that money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 9 minutes ago, Strokes said: Yes it bloody is, if you borrow now, you pay it back the interest at the very least. We pay £50billion a year in interest for the national debt, that is paid for by the taxpayer. That is delayed tax, it was spent and benefited by a different generation and we are paying for it. Do you not think the NHS could do with that money. Ffs. If you borrow £100b and spend it on useful infrastructure you pay say £5b and year in interest but receive maybe £300b in benefits. So you profit. The multiplier is actually supposed to be 6x but I'm being cautious as not an expenditure is useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 https://news.sky.com/story/michael-gove-admits-brexit-transition-deal-sub-optimal-for-uk-fishing-industry-11298167 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 4 minutes ago, toddybad said: Ffs. If you borrow £100b and spend it on useful infrastructure you pay say £5b and year in interest but receive maybe £300b in benefits. So you profit. The multiplier is actually supposed to be 6x but I'm being cautious as not an expenditure is useful. So we should have been rolling in it by the end of the labour years and not up to our eyeballs in it. We weren’t and we are paying delayed taxes. It’s not a difficult concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 21 minutes ago, Strokes said: Yes it bloody is, if you borrow now, you pay it back the interest at the very least. We pay £50billion a year in interest for the national debt, that is paid for by the taxpayer. That is delayed tax, it was spent and benefited by a different generation and we are paying for it. Do you not think the NHS could do with that money. 2 Nah, with all the money it's going to get from Brexit we'll all have our own personal hospital. At least I think that's what it said on the bus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 Amazing how the usual suspects are up in arms about Juncker congratulating Putin but are having nothing to say about Trump doing the same thing... Special relationship, my arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 31 minutes ago, toddybad said: Trouble is Izzy that in the public services you genuinely understand that you are there for something greater than earning a few quid. Either for yourself or a company etc. I don't want to work in the private sector tbh. I don't want to serve shareholders or define myself by profit margins. I want to deliver the best possible service I can for the greater good. Hence the fact I, like millions of others, have accepted a 15% cut in real terms wages over the last 8 years. My only complaint is that apparently we're about to see wages increasing inn this country bit for some reason it's those that work for the benefit of others that seem to take the hit every time. It would probably benefit this conversation if we recognised that the public services benefit the private sector both through service provision but also because hundreds of billions are spent by the public sector into the private sector. It benefits nobody having a public sector that is falling apart and underfunded. It benefits nobody being at the point where you're saying that public sector workers should leave their jobs in search of better pay. Toddy......I'm torn. On the one hand I have to admire and respect your values and beliefs. On the other hand, I want to shout at you for being a victim and limiting your own potential. I'm sure we've discussed career progression in the past and I understand your reasons for not wanting to work in the private sector (it's fvcking great btw) If you're genuinely resigned to spending the rest of your days working in the public sector then fair enough. But once you've made that decision you need to accept all the ups and downs and pros and cons that come with it. I'm sure you've got transferable skills and talents that could land you a better paid job in the public sector if you applied yourself and learnt what you needed to. Sometimes in life we have to create our own pay rises by moving up through the pay grades and demonstrating how talented we are. It benefits nobody if you just spend your time moaning about how unfair everything is, when you could be using your talents to influence significant change rather than being a slave to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 Private sector is useless, it still hasn’t put a man in space. Public sector did it in 1962 ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 5 minutes ago, Buce said: Amazing how the usual suspects are up in arms about Juncker congratulating Putin but are having nothing to say about Trump doing the same thing... Special relationship, my arse. Who are these usual suspects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 24 minutes ago, toddybad said: Ffs. If you borrow £100b and spend it on useful infrastructure you pay say £5b and year in interest but receive maybe £300b in benefits. So you profit. The multiplier is actually supposed to be 6x but I'm being cautious as not an expenditure is useful. Do you actually believe this stuff you write? Can you give me single piece of potential infrastructure investment that would give that sort of return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 4 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Private sector is useless, it still hasn’t put a man in space. Public sector did it in 1961 ffs FYP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: FYP. Go communism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Do you actually believe this stuff you write? Can you give me single piece of potential infrastructure investment that would give that sort of return? Something something government bonds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Go communism Justice for Laika you savages ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 7 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Toddy......I'm torn. On the one hand I have to admire and respect your values and beliefs. On the other hand, I want to shout at you for being a victim and limiting your own potential. I'm sure we've discussed career progression in the past and I understand your reasons for not wanting to work in the private sector (it's fvcking great btw) If you're genuinely resigned to spending the rest of your days working in the public sector then fair enough. But once you've made that decision you need to accept all the ups and downs and pros and cons that come with it. I'm sure you've got transferable skills and talents that could land you a better paid job in the public sector if you applied yourself and learnt what you needed to. Sometimes in life we have to create our own pay rises by moving up through the pay grades and demonstrating how talented we are. It benefits nobody if you just spend your time moaning about how unfair everything is, when you could be using your talents to influence significant change rather than being a slave to it. Depends on whether or not you think a life led to the benefit of other people rather than the material benefit of yourself is victimhood and limited potential, really. This gets into meaning-of-life territory, though. I get what you mean about changing the system from within, but you aren't going to change an unfair system using its own rules; you'll just be left with another unfair system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: Justice for Laika you savages ? Got a better death than almost any human would or will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Justice for Laika you savages ? Another martyr for the revolution ✊? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 4 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Depends on whether or not you think a life led to the benefit of other people rather than the material benefit of yourself is victimhood and limited potential, really. This gets into meaning-of-life territory, though. I get what you mean about changing the system from within, but you aren't going to change an unfair system using its own rules; you'll just be left with another unfair system. I'm saying he could actually have both Mac. Believe it or not there are actually people who work in the public sector who aren't victims of the system, are maximising their potential, do lead a life that benefits others and still benefit themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: I'm saying he could actually have both Mac. Believe it or not there are actually people who work in the public sector who aren't victims of the system, are maximising their potential, do lead a life that benefits others and still benefit themselves. That's fair enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, MattP said: Do you actually believe this stuff you write? Can you give me single piece of potential infrastructure investment that would give that sort of return? It’s difficult to put numbers on these things but the motorway network for example - much of it was built when debt to gdp was higher than it is now - would surely qualify as an investment in infrastructure that has paid for itself not just six but probably dozens and maybe hundreds of times over. Can you even imagine the uk without motorways? Likewise with the rail network. Ok the rail industry has problems but that initial investment in laying track has paid for itself probably hundreds, thousands, maybe tens of thousands of times over. We used to be a confident nation when it came to these sorts of things, don’t know when or why we lost that confidence in ourselves tbh. Edited 20 March 2018 by Rogstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 1 hour ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Toddy......I'm torn. On the one hand I have to admire and respect your values and beliefs. On the other hand, I want to shout at you for being a victim and limiting your own potential. I'm sure we've discussed career progression in the past and I understand your reasons for not wanting to work in the private sector (it's fvcking great btw) If you're genuinely resigned to spending the rest of your days working in the public sector then fair enough. But once you've made that decision you need to accept all the ups and downs and pros and cons that come with it. I'm sure you've got transferable skills and talents that could land you a better paid job in the public sector if you applied yourself and learnt what you needed to. Sometimes in life we have to create our own pay rises by moving up through the pay grades and demonstrating how talented we are. It benefits nobody if you just spend your time moaning about how unfair everything is, when you could be using your talents to influence significant change rather than being a slave to it. Wishy washy self help rhetoric aside, if wages are falling then the problem is that even if you get a promotion and a pay rise, you’re still worse off than you would have been under a competent government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 20 March 2018 Share Posted 20 March 2018 1 hour ago, MattP said: Who are these usual suspects? Kevin Spacey and his rent boys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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