Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Izzy]

18 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

It’s difficult to put numbers on these things but the motorway network for example - much of it was built when debt to gdp was higher than it is now - would surely qualify as an investment in infrastructure that has paid for itself not just six but probably dozens and maybe hundreds of times over. Can you even imagine the uk without motorways? Likewise with the rail network. Ok the rail industry has problems but that initial investment in laying track has paid for itself probably hundreds, thousands, maybe tens of thousands of times over.

 

We used to be a confident nation when it came to these sorts of things, don’t know when or why we lost that confidence in ourselves tbh.

Probably when the likes of you and Toddy started to constantly keep talking us down

[Rogstanley]

Just now, Izzy Muzzett said:

Probably when the likes of you and Toddy started to constantly keep talking us down

No I don’t think so. My vision of a country that is confident and capable enough to back itself by investing in itself is a far cry from talking the country down. In fact in many ways it mirrors your own opinion of how individuals should make progress - essentially by backing yourself and going for it without fear.

 

The austerity agenda peddled by the Tories is extremely negative, it comes from a place of insecurity and cowardice, so maybe you should look at your own party before you say other people are bringing the country down.

[Izzy]

6 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Wishy washy self help rhetoric aside, if wages are falling then the problem is that even if you get a promotion and a pay rise, you’re still worse off than you would have been under a competent government.

So what? You're still better off than you were before the promotion and pay rise. I'm sure you'd be too busy celebrating and feeling good about yourself to consider if you'd be even better off under a competent government or not.

 

I keep hearing how shit things are and how it all has to change and people always look to external factors (like the government) to make the changes for them. Well here's some more wishy washy self help rhetoric for you:

 

 

[Rogstanley]

5 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

So what? You're still better off than you were before the promotion and pay rise. I'm sure you'd be too busy celebrating and feeling good about yourself to consider if you'd be even better off under a competent government or not.

 

I keep hearing how shit things are and how it all has to change and people always look to external factors (like the government) to make the changes for them. Well here's some more wishy washy self help rhetoric for you:

 

 

No I’ve had promotions and pay rises since the Tories took over but that doesn’t mean I ignore Tory failures I’m afraid. 

[Izzy]

7 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

No I’ve had promotions and pay rises since the Tories took over but that doesn’t mean I ignore Tory failures I’m afraid. 

Oh well, only another four years before King Jezza comes along and makes it all good again. Enjoy the wait 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, MattP said:

Do you actually believe this stuff you write? 

 

Can you give me single piece of potential infrastructure investment that would give that sort of return? 

 

8 hours ago, Strokes said:

Something something government bonds 

Without wasting my time going through the best investments, here's a paper from the IMF in 2015 looking at the macroeconomic effects of public investment. It concluded that:

 

 

 Increased public investment raises output, both in the short term because of demand 
effects and in the long term as a result of supply effects. 
 But these effects vary with a number of mediating factors, including (1) the degree of 
economic slack and monetary accommodation, (2) the efficiency of public 
investment, and (3) how public investment is financed. 
 When there is economic slack and monetary accommodation, demand effects are 
stronger, and the public-debt-to-GDP ratio may actually decline. 
 An increase in public investment that is debt financed could have larger output effects 
than one that is budget neutral, with both options delivering similar declines in the 
public-debt-to-GDP ratio.

 

 

wp1595.pdf

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

 

Without wasting my time going through the best investments, here's a paper from the IMF in 2015 looking at the macroeconomic effects of public investment. It concluded that:

 

 

 Increased public investment raises output, both in the short term because of demand 
effects and in the long term as a result of supply effects. 
 But these effects vary with a number of mediating factors, including (1) the degree of 
economic slack and monetary accommodation, (2) the efficiency of public 
investment, and (3) how public investment is financed. 
 When there is economic slack and monetary accommodation, demand effects are 
stronger, and the public-debt-to-GDP ratio may actually decline. 
 An increase in public investment that is debt financed could have larger output effects 
than one that is budget neutral, with both options delivering similar declines in the 
public-debt-to-GDP ratio.

 

 

wp1595.pdf

It still doesn’t stop national debt being delayed taxes.

[Innovindil]

19 hours ago, toddybad said:

Looking forward to the day my wages go up in real terms after I've spent the last 8 years taking the hit for the bankers. If I give up a days leave I can have 3% this year followed by two years of around 1.5% - so back to losing money. If I don't lose a days leave it'll be 1% for the next 3 years. What a lovely choice. I'm glad to be held personally responsible for the banking crisis in this way.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43481341

 

And contrary to recent suggestions, she says, the unions and the government won't force staff to give up a day's holiday in return for bigger pay rises. 

 

Bit of good news for your morning. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43481341

 

And contrary to recent suggestions, she says, the unions and the government won't force staff to give up a day's holiday in return for bigger pay rises. 

 

Bit of good news for your morning. 

I'm not sure why you're treating it like a party political point that you've won. I'm just talking about the fact public sector workers have been getting progressively poorer. It directly affects my life.

 

The latest offer is definitely improved from the original offer. The 3% is okay. I'd even say the 2% is okay given what's come before. Not sure why the third year is 1% if the government is positive about our futures. Think we should look for better in the third year.

 

[Guest MattP]

8 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I'm not sure why you're treating it like a party political point that you've won. I'm just talking about the fact public sector workers have been getting progressively poorer. It directly affects my life.

 

The latest offer is definitely improved from the original offer. The 3% is okay. I'd even say the 2% is okay given what's come before. Not sure why the third year is 1% if the government is positive about our futures. Think we should look for better in the third year.

Just a couple of weeks ago you were demanding to pay more tax, what's changed?

[Guest Foxin_mad]

40 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I'm not sure why you're treating it like a party political point that you've won. I'm just talking about the fact public sector workers have been getting progressively poorer. It directly affects my life.

 

The latest offer is definitely improved from the original offer. The 3% is okay. I'd even say the 2% is okay given what's come before. Not sure why the third year is 1% if the government is positive about our futures. Think we should look for better in the third year.

 

Well I assume if all these extra wages kick start the economy like you say it will then in the 3rd year we should all be flying so I am sure they will be able revise it. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

10 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Oh well, only another four years before King Jezza comes along and fvcks it all up again. Enjoy the wait 

Fixed it for you 

[Innovindil]

51 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I'm not sure why you're treating it like a party political point that you've won. I'm just talking about the fact public sector workers have been getting progressively poorer. It directly affects my life.

 

The latest offer is definitely improved from the original offer. The 3% is okay. I'd even say the 2% is okay given what's come before. Not sure why the third year is 1% if the government is positive about our futures. Think we should look for better in the third year.

 

Wasn't making a political point. Genuinely thought you'd be happy hearing you wouldn't have to lose a holiday day. 

[Strokes]

55 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I'm not sure why you're treating it like a party political point that you've won. I'm just talking about the fact public sector workers have been getting progressively poorer. It directly affects my life.

 

The latest offer is definitely improved from the original offer. The 3% is okay. I'd even say the 2% is okay given what's come before. Not sure why the third year is 1% if the government is positive about our futures. Think we should look for better in the third year.

 

Just out of interest what is the holiday entitlement on the NHS, I think my wife’s is 30 days but I’m sure that is boosted by 10 years plus service. It’s not exactly generous is it?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Just out of interest what is the holiday entitlement on the NHS, I think my wife’s is 30 days but I’m sure that is boosted by 10 years plus service. It’s not exactly generous is it?

Holiday entitlement certainly isn't bad, I'd admit.

27 days normally, with small additions at 5yrs and 10yrs.

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Holiday entitlement certainly isn't bad, I'd admit.

27 days normally, with small additions at 5yrs and 10yrs.

I don’t think it’s particularly good tbh, I have 32 days plus bank holidays. Days in lieu offered on top of overtime to meet deadlines on time. Whilst I accept I’ve got a good gig here my last employer who was seen as tight in that respect, wasn’t far behind NHS in terms of holidays.

Plus the NHS is quite shitty about sickness, my wife had a nurse colleague that has multiple sclerosis and has been put on a sickness review and is basically being forced out. If there was any employer in the country you would expect to be understanding of sickness/illness/disabilities it would be the NHS. 

[Rogstanley]

27 plus bank holidays is alright, I'm sure the average is about 25/26+BH. 32+BH is excellent.

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

27 plus bank holidays is alright, I'm sure the average is about 25/26+BH. 32+BH is excellent.

That’s what I’m saying, it’s alright but not lavish. People think all public sector jobs are cushy and have much more benefits compared to the private sector but it’s not always the case.

[Carl the Llama]

If you want more holiday days you can always do what one of my former colleagues used to do and quit every month or so, spend a few weeks drinking, then waltz back into their previous role.

 

Of course they were the son of the owner so you'll need to make your parents inherit millions of pounds, buy a stately home and turn it into a pricey b&b/event venue first.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

If you want more holiday days you can always do what one of my former colleagues used to do and quit every month or so, spend a few weeks drinking, then waltz back into their previous role.

 

Of course they were the son of the owner so you'll need to make your parents inherit millions of pounds, buy a stately home and turn it into a pricey b&b/event venue first.

Have we met?

[Carl the Llama]

8 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Have we met?

Christ I hope not. 

[Innovindil]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43482886

 

Pretty much as expected. Wages up (still falling 0.1% in real terms) unemployment down, slight rise in jobseekers claimants. Further interest rate rises a possibility in the near future. 

 

Heading in the right direction overall I'd say. 

[Rogstanley]

13 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43482886

 

Pretty much as expected. Wages up (still falling 0.1% in real terms) unemployment down, slight rise in jobseekers claimants. Further interest rate rises a possibility in the near future. 

 

Heading in the right direction overall I'd say. 

Wages still falling then as predicted. Not really heading in the right direction when they're still falling don't you think.

[Innovindil]

2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Wages still falling then as predicted. Not really heading in the right direction when they're still falling don't you think.

Do you know what the word direction means or no? 

 

Wages falling less than before = positive direction. Can't believe it needs spelling out tbh. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

5 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Do you know what the word direction means or no? 

 

Wages falling less than before = positive direction. Can't believe it needs spelling out tbh. 

It does to some, there can be no positive especially if the TORY SCUM are involved. 

 

What we really need is borrowing, debt, deficit, money printing, inflate away debt, investment, pay rises, tax, nationalisation = loadsa growth its dead simple. JEZZA GONNA FIX IT TM

Edited 21 March 2018 by Foxin_mad