Webbo Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: 1 and 6 I'd agree with. How can you tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 24 minutes ago, Webbo said: You've previously said that it'll be a disaster to leave the single market and Corbyn has said we've got to leave the single market so will you still vote for him/ Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Are you trying to convince me or yourself? Corbyn himself has admitted it's anti semitic, why are you arguing? And people say I can't admit when I'm wrong. Because I disagree with the assertion and I don't have to play silly media games to placate the masses. I'm going to keep this quote on standby for every time you disagree with something Corbyn says and then ask you how you can disagree with him when he himself has admitted the thing to be true. Just now, Webbo said: How can you tell? Because stereotypes and caricatures are a thing. They don't however make me feel like the artist's trying to tell me I shouldn't like Jewish people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 8 minutes ago, Webbo said: Sorry, are will still trying to pretend that this isn't anti semitic even though the artist has admitted it? No, unless you have some other info, the artist has NOT admitted that it is antisemitic. Have a look at your quote by the artist (below) - the bit in inverted commas. If you're basing your opinion on that, you're fundamentally misrepresenting what he said. Have a look at my quote, too. It's a fuller version of the quote you've used, but without the Jewish Chronicle selecting the bit that suited their agenda. It is the Chronicle that says he "intended" to produce antisemitic caricatures, not the artist. The artist clearly denies it. 7 hours ago, Webbo said: From the article in the Jewish chronicle. the artist himself confirmed they were intended as such, writing: “Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are.” 4 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: Wikipedia has a fuller version of the artist's reply: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mear_One#Brick_Lane_mural "In response, Mear One denied the mural was racist, and was quoted in The Independent as saying that the mural is about 'class and privilege', and pointed out that the figures depicted include both 'Jewish and white Anglos'. However, he was also quoted in the Jewish Chronicle as saying, 'Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are' (in reference to the Warburg family)". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said: No, unless you have some other info, the artist has NOT admitted that it is antisemitic. Have a look at your quote by the artist (below) - the bit in inverted commas. If you're basing your opinion on that, you're fundamentally misrepresenting what he said. Have a look at my quote, too. It's a fuller version of the quote you've used, but without the Jewish Chronicle selecting the bit that suited their agenda. It is the Chronicle that says he "intended" to produce antisemitic caricatures, not the artist. The artist clearly denies it. But Corbyn said it was antisemitic and we should believe everything Corbyn says. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: No, unless you have some other info, the artist has NOT admitted that it is antisemitic. Have a look at your quote by the artist (below) - the bit in inverted commas. If you're basing your opinion on that, you're fundamentally misrepresenting what he said. Have a look at my quote, too. It's a fuller version of the quote you've used, but without the Jewish Chronicle selecting the bit that suited their agenda. It is the Chronicle that says he "intended" to produce antisemitic caricatures, not the artist. The artist clearly denies it. So all Jews love The Rothschilds? We can make negative, sweeping statements about a whole race of people and not be racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 1 minute ago, Webbo said: So all Jews love The Rothschilds? We can make negative, sweeping statements about a whole race of people and not be racist? Yes that's exactly what "'Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community" means, it means all Jews. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 Genuinely shocked at the last couple of pages on this. Never thought I'd see people I thought of as reasonable defending this sort of thing. We are now in such a mad World Corbyn supporters were 100% sure that his hat on Newsnight was anti Corbyn propaganda yet they consider this image to be ambiguous in its anti Semitism and they will go to such lengths even his own loyalist MP's won't to question or defend it. What is the point of the Labour moderates anymore? Why do they even bother? They've either been beaten or have got Stockholm syndrome. Are they that scared now they resort to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: Yes that's exactly what "'Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community" means, it means all Jews. The man doesn't have the grace to simply admit it when he has clearly been misrepresenting someone's words. In fact, he doubles down and even more blatantly misrepresents another comment! @Webbo, mate, I'm leaving it there, with the observation that you seem to be unable or unwilling to tell the difference between truth and fiction. Sleep well! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Yes that's exactly what "'Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community" means, it means all Jews. “Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are.” Rothschild and Warburg are demons and old white jews love them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 People really think Corbyn goes home and rants about jews in private? Be honest with yourselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 26 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: I did give my opinion about Corbyn accepting that the mural was antisemitic - bold section above. Maybe he now genuinely thinks it was antisemitic, maybe he doesn't, but he has good tactical & strategic reasons not to allow this to drag on, even if he doesn't see it as antisemitic: getting media onto more favourable issues, avoiding alienating Jewish voters & avoiding needless splits in party, to mention just three. Maybe I'm naive, but I cannot see much in the way of antisemitic caricature in the mural....a tiny bit, maybe. Have a proper look yourself, Strokes. I'd be interested in your opinion, as one of the more open-minded people on here (flattery is under-rated... ). I see 1 rather stereotypical Jew, 2 maybe/maybe not Jews & 3 probable non-Jews in an anti-capitalist mural. I didn’t see it as antisemitic and would have accepted it as not if it wasn’t largely accepted as such by others but then I didn’t/don’t see Nigel Farages poster in the EU referendum as racist either, so you might think I’m not a great judge on such issues. I think where art is concerned particularly, it’s not always got a fixed message to deliver and is open to interpretation. I bet the artist can’t believe his luck that this is back in the news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 Just now, Alf Bentley said: The man doesn't have the grace to simply admit it when he has clearly been misrepresenting someone's words. In fact, he doubles down and even more blatantly misrepresents another comment! @Webbo, mate, I'm leaving it there, with the observation that you seem to be unable or unwilling to tell the difference between truth and fiction. Sleep well! Sorry to press the point but you haven't answered my question and that's usually important to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 6 minutes ago, MattP said: Genuinely shocked at the last couple of pages on this. Never thought I'd see people I thought of as reasonable defending this sort of thing. We are now in such a mad World Corbyn supporters were 100% sure that his hat on Newsnight was anti Corbyn propaganda yet they consider this image to be ambiguous in its anti Semitism and they will go to such lengths even his own loyalist MP's won't to question or defend it. What is the point of the Labour moderates anymore? Why do they even bother? They've either been beaten or have got Stockholm syndrome. Are they that scared now they resort to this? They're like Trump supporters. Anything said about Corbyn is fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 Just now, Webbo said: They're like Trump supporters. Anything said about Corbyn is fake news. Worse. If Trump admitted to something being racist/antisemitic most of his supporters would probably hold their hands up, or maybe even double down I've never seen so many defend and deny something already admitted by the culprit as I have today with regards to this. Baffling. I expect it from some posters but others I'm very, very surprised at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 Just now, Webbo said: “Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are.” Rothschild and Warburg are demons and old white jews love them? When you subscribe to the conspiracy theories that the artist clearly subscribes to then yes, those men named are 'demons', not because of their Jewish heritage but because of their role in the new world order alongside the other (non-Jewish) mega rich shadow government puppet masters. You're convinced I'm holding this debate because I blindly support Corbyn but the reality is you blindly condemn him. Your use of selective quoting even when it's spelled out in clear terms that's what you're doing is clear evidence of that. Now if you and Matt would stop projecting the unquestioning regurgitation of what's written in the media onto myself, Alf and anyone else who has dared to stop and question this whole mess I'd appreciate it. @MattP I'm glad a voice of reason has arrived, finally somebody to lay to bed once and for all why the image is intended to denigrate all Jews rather than some people who happen to be Jewish. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkster the Fox Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/23/venezuela-hopes-to-tackle-the-worlds-worst-inflation-by-deleting-zeros-from-its-currency/?utm_term=.2b2a921886a8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 21 minutes ago, MattP said: Genuinely shocked at the last couple of pages on this. Never thought I'd see people I thought of as reasonable defending this sort of thing. disagree, great debate with some great people. Best showing of the forum tonight well done lads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: @MattP I'm glad a voice of reason has arrived, finally somebody to lay to bed once and for all why the image is intended to denigrate all Jews rather than some people who happen to be Jewish. Anytime buddy, poacher turned gamekeeper and all that. Worst thing about it is I'm in full agreement with Jeremy Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 2 minutes ago, MattP said: Anytime buddy, poacher turned gamekeeper and all that. Worst thing about it is I'm in full agreement with Jeremy Corbyn. So um... why's it antisemitic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 5 minutes ago, MattP said: Anytime buddy, poacher turned gamekeeper and all that. Worst thing about it is I'm in full agreement with Jeremy Corbyn. I'm not really sure why everybody is debating the right or wrongs of the picture. Corbyn has effectively said that it was a mistake in his part and that the picture appears to be anti-semetic. Whilst you may be taking the moderate approach to that point, by ignoring what Corbyn says and trying to link this to some sort of party wide thing is really rather playing politics and nothing more. And webbo doesn't answer any straight questions, instead simply trolling everybody. I do wonder who decided to make him a mod sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: So um... why's it antisemitic? The noses mainly around the table, it's like seeing a picture if apes running a 100 metre race. Imagine claiming that wouldn't be racist? If that doesn't quite clinch it it also into the conspiracy as well the Jews are controlling the money whilst everyone else is underneath - nothing new really. People shouldn't be surprised. I was a rabid anti-semite in my youth, would have loved a picture like that back in the day - I wasn't 62 though at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 3 minutes ago, toddybad said: I'm not really sure why everybody is debating the right or wrongs of the picture. Corbyn has effectively said that it was a mistake in his part and that the picture appears to be anti-semetic. Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 3 minutes ago, toddybad said: I'm not really sure why everybody is debating the right or wrongs of the picture. Corbyn has effectively said that it was a mistake in his part and that the picture appears to be anti-semetic. Whilst you may be taking the moderate approach to that point, by ignoring what Corbyn says and trying to link this to some sort of party wide thing is really rather playing politics and nothing more. And webbo doesn't answer any straight questions, instead simply trolling everybody. I do wonder who decided to make him a mod sometimes. Life's not perfect, never has been. Bad things sometimes happen and it's nothing to do with the govt. Sometimes the alternative is worse than the original problem. Me being a mod has nothing to do with this. Matt has been banned for far less than some of the stuff that you come out with, you've never had a single word deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 24 March 2018 Share Posted 24 March 2018 People spending all day arguing the semantics of a painting, I'm still sat here wondering why anyone gives a fook what jezza thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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