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DJ Barry Hammond

Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

By DJ Barry Hammond, in General Chat

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Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

too many bloody foreign companies in this country imo we need more BRITISH ones but thanks for sharing

Don't worry, if Corbyn gets in they won't be able to get out quick enough.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

The absolute state of this party now, no doubt it will just be more anti-Corbyn propaganda to the cult but the ST investigation is quite shocking, how can so many people towards the top be so knee deep in this stuff? 

 

How have they let this happen? 

 

Are they going to start trying to pass off holocaust denial as criticism of Israel? Probably. 

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted

One for serious political obsessives from New Statesman: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2018/03/christine-shawcroft-resigns-and-becomes-first-casualty-labour-s-new-civil

 

Seems as if the justified replacement of Shawcroft won't seriously impact left control of the NEC (policy) - but will impact control of the body that selects byelection candidates. I presume this would also apply to vacant seats if an early election were called: e.g. early election called, a few MPs stand down because they're getting old, are under pressure from local Momentum activists or are offered a seat in the Lords. The article implies that might now create vacancies for candidates backed by the unions, NOT Momentum.

 

The implication is also that Shawcroft's email was leaked not by Tories or Blairites but by a non-Momentum element within the Labour Left. If this continues as a further fault-line within Labour, it risks making the Tories look like a party that is united and that has a clear direction! That would be some achievement given all that is at stake in real-life politics and the obvious Tory splits over Brexit.

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Guest

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, MattP said:

The absolute state of this party now, no doubt it will just be more anti-Corbyn propaganda to the cult but the ST investigation is quite shocking, how can so many people towards the top be so knee deep in this stuff? 

 

How have they let this happen? 

 

Are they going to start trying to pass off holocaust denial as criticism of Israel? Probably. 

It's no better or worse in labour than anywhere else. It's just being politicised at the moment. 

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, toddybad said:

It's no better or worse in labour than anywhere else. It's just being politicised at the moment. 

If you genuinely believe that I won't convince you otherwise. 

 

Let me know when a minority group has to demonstrate against the SNP, Tories, Liberals or any other major party saying enough is enough when it comes to bigotry against them. 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, MattP said:

If you genuinely believe that I won't convince you otherwise. 

 

Let me know when a minority group has to demonstrate against the SNP, Tories, Liberals or any other major party saying enough is enough when it comes to bigotry against them. 

It's certainly an issue with the leading left-wing party in the UK right now.

 

Bit different in other places, though.

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Guest

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, MattP said:

If you genuinely believe that I won't convince you otherwise. 

 

Let me know when a minority group has to demonstrate against the SNP, Tories, Liberals or any other major party saying enough is enough when it comes to bigotry against them. 

Section 28.

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Guest

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Something from 1988? Seriously?

In 1988 the Tories introduced law which discriminated against every gay or bisexual person in the country. 

 

But if you want something more recent:

 

the Conservative Party is regularly beset by allegations of racism against its MPs,

councillors and candidates. It’s also clear that only rarely do such instances – even when particularly
offensive – result in the person being expelled from the Party.
The cases include Tory elected representatives using racist abuse like “Pakis”, “pikies”, and “piccaninnies” –
as well as several anti-semitic or Islamophobic remarks. But most appear to have been allowed to continue
their membership and even to represent the Conservative Party.
Back in 2001 Andrew Lansley MP complained of “endemic racism” in the Conservative Party. In January 2015 a former aide to both Margaret Thatcher and John Major described the Conservative Party as
“essentially racist”.


 • In 1989, David Cameron defied international sanctions to go on a jolly to apartheid South Africa
on a trip funded by a firm that lobbied against the imposition of sanctions on the apartheid
regime. The Prime Minister apologised for the trip 17 years later, in 2006.


 • In 2001, Tory MP Andrew Lansley told the Daily Telegraph, “There is endemic racism in the Tory
party. It is in the system.”


 • In a 2002 column for the Daily Telegraph, Boris Johnson (then MP for Henley) described black
people as “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles”.
 He apologised six years later in 2008 (when running to be London Mayor). No disciplinary action
was taken by the Conservative Party at any point.

 • In July 2006, Chorley Tory councillor Shaun Smith was arrested following an alleged racist
incident at Manchester airport
 He quit as a councillor in 2009 after refusing to provide the police with a blood sample following
a separate drink-driving incident


 • While editor of The Spectator, then Tory MP Boris Johnson published an article that said
“blacks have lower IQs”. Another article from around the same time said that Caribbeans were
"multiplying like flies"
. Mr Johnson apologised in 2008, but no disciplinary action was taken.

 

• In February 2009, Bolton Conservative councillor Bob Allen posted a picture of a gorilla alongside
a critical comment about an Asian Labour councillor on a blog. He apologised, the Conservative
Party investigated, but it is not known if any disciplinary action was taken. According to his Twitter
profile, he remains a Tory councillor

 • In March 2009, Leicestershire Tory councillor Robert Fraser said that Romanians would "stick a
knife in you as soon as look at you", as well as insulting East Europeans and the Irish, saying
“Some of these European ones, they make the Irish look like complete amateurs and I would
dread, I would dread, to see them in Groby”8
The Tory Party sent him on diversity training, but he was allowed to stand again for the Tories.


 • In November 2009, Tory MP for Spelthorne, David Wilshire, said the expose of MPs expenses
left them treated like Jews in Nazi Germany, stating “Branding a whole group of people as
undesirables led to Hitler’s gas chambers”
David Cameron asked him to apologise.


 • In November 2009, Orpington Tory councillor Peter Hobbins, complained that none of the
prospective parliamentary candidates “has a normal English name” – questioning “Why are the
Candidates Department so keen on these foreign names?!!!!”
He was suspended by the party.


 • In January 2010, Tory councillor for Colne, Smith Benson, complained that there were “too many
P***s” in his town. Council Leader Tony Beckett refused to discipline him and said, “I think for
the Labour Party to say he should be sacked for making a sweeping statement is a bit strong.”


 • In January 2011, Baroness Warsi gave a speech about rising Islamophobia. Tory Lord Tebbit wrote
a blog dismissing her case and saying “a period of silence from the Baroness might not come
amiss.”


 • In August 2011, Tory Dover councillor Bob Frost described people involved in the riots as
“jungle bunnies”.
He lost his job as a Maths teacher, but the Conservative Party only suspended him for two months,
readmitting him in November 2011.
In 2014, he referred to the prospective Middle Eastern buyers of Dover port as “sons of camel
drivers”. No disciplinary action was taken and Tory MP Charlie Elphicke defended him, saying
“I think the Labour Party is trying to victimise Cllr Frost.”
In May 2015, Cllr Frost was in trouble again for tweeting that a Big Issue seller should "f**k off
back to Romania".
He was suspended pending investigation.

 • In December 2011, Tory MP for Cannock Chase, Aidan Burley, helped organise a Nazi-themed
stag party.
In June 2012, David Cameron ordered he be sacked from his role as PPS to then Transport
Secretary Justine Greening – and ordered a fuller investigation.
Later in 2012, Mr Burley described the London Olympics’ opening ceremony as "leftie
multicultural crap"
In 2014 an internal Tory Party inquiry cleared him of any racism or anti-semitism.

 

• In January 2013, an Enfield Tory councillor Chris Joannides compared Muslim children to black bin
bags in a Facebook post.
He denied being Islamophobic,but was suspended from the party for a year. It is not clear if he has now been readmitted, though when cleared from prosecution he thanked the local Tory MP,
David Burrowes, for standing by him.
 

 • In April 2013, Tory councillor for West Sussex, John Cherry, told the Mail on Sunday, "Ninety-seven
per cent of pupils will be black or Asian. It depends what type of Asian. If they're Chinese they'll rise to the top. If they're Indian they'll rise to the top. If they're Pakistani they won't,” and
described Stockwell as “a coloured area”.
He resigned his position as a councillor, but there is no indication he faced any sanction from the
Conservative Party.


 • In April 2014, a Tory Barnet councillor, Tom Davey, was accused of being not fit for office, after a
Facebook post came to light in which he suggested it might be easier to find a job if he were “a
black female wheelchair-bound amputee who is sexually attracted to other women”.
No disciplinary action was taken by the Conservative Party.


 • In May 2014, David Bishop, a Tory council candidate in Brentwood, Essex, tweeted "It's good to be
anti-Islam” and called Islam “the religion of peace & rape”.
He resigned from the Conservative Party.


 • In May 2014, Tory Coulsdon activist Stephen Lees tweeted “Every single Muslim should be
expelled from this country – not deported – expelled, and every mosque demolished.
The Conservative Party denied he was a member. Yet he was apparently a former Secretary of
Coulsdon South Conservatives


 • In August 2014 UCL Conservative Society was under scrutiny for a series of anti-semitic,
Islamophobic and racist remarks, fostering a culture of discrimination and bullying, and creating a
“toxic” environment. One comment included, “Jews own everything, we all know it’s true. I wish I was Jewish, but my nose isn’t long enough”. In October 2014 after an investigation by UCL Union, the Conservative Society was ordered to
apologise27. There is no evidence that the Conservative Party investigated the incidents.


 • In October 2014, Maidenhead Tory councillor Alan Mellins suggested complained about Travellers and said the solution was to “Execute them.” He apologised and then later resigned as a councillor over the incident. It is not clear whether the Conservative Party took any disciplinary action.


 • In January 2015, Derek Laud, a former aide to both Margaret Thatcher and John Major, described
the Conservative Party as “essentially racist”. He went on, “They are the ultimate racists because
they deal in stereotypes."

 • In January 2015, a Conservative councillor for Bishop’s Stortford was accused of anti-semitism for
a tweet and condemned by Tory MP Robert Halfon as “abhorrent” and “unacceptable”.
Councillor Colin Woodward apologised and no action was taken by the Conservative Party

 

• In April 2015, a Tory candidate for Derby Council, Gulzabeen Afsar, said she would never support
“the Jew” in reference to Ed Miliband.
Cllr Afsar apologised, and was later suspended by the Conservative Party.


 • In April 2015, a Tory council candidate in Luton, David Coulter, described Travellers as “pikies”
and “thieving troublemakers”.
He was suspended.

 • In May 2015, a Tory councillor, Thomas Crockett for Maida Vale in Westminster, compared some
young locals with the Hitler Youth.
He apologised and no disciplinary action was taken.

 • In May 2015, Tory councillor for Leicestershire Bob Fahey referred to a fellow councillor
as a “Chink”.This is no record of any disciplinary action and apparently remains a Conservative councillor.


 • In September 2015, Tory councillor for East Renfrewshire, and former parliamentary candidate Gordon MacAskill tweeted: "Scenes we'd like to see: the refugees Nicola invites into her house are Daesh moles”, in response to the Scottish First Minister saying she would take in a Syrian refugee. He was suspended by the Party, but has seemingly been reinstated.

 • In October 2015, a Tory councillor in Rugby, Jim Buckley, tweeted re: Sadiq Khan,
“Your next London Mayor? You think his corner shop would be open on a Saturday?”
He was suspended from the Conservative Party, and charged (though not convicted) with
sending an offensive message.


 • In December 2015, it was revealed that Oliver Letwin then an adviser to Margaret Thatcher had made a series of racist remarks following the riots in 1985, describing black people as having
“bad moral attitudes”, and saying schemes to help black people would be spent in “the disco and drugs trade” and employment programmes would only see black people “graduate … into
unemployment and crime”.
The Conservative Party took no disciplinary action and Mr Letwin remains a government minister.


 • On 27 January 2016, Prime Minister David Cameron described refugees fleeing Syria and other conflicts as “a bunch of migrants”38. He has previously spoken of a “swarm of people coming across the Mediterranean”
He has yet to apologise for either comment.


 • In February 2016, Glasgow Tory councillor David Meikle accused the SNP of anti-semitism for opposing the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land. He later apologised and withdrew his comments


 • Matthew Sephton41, Tory councillor in Altrincham, tweeted on 31 January 2016 a leaflet that read:
“Tired of your job? Sick of working 40 hours or more each week just to feed your family? Would
you like to relax all day and still have all the benefits of a full time job? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then you should consider moving to England, The Welfare Country.”

 

In September 2015, he was accused of posting “vile” and “disgusting” comments on Facebook,
including “they should be transported directly back” and ”Refugees in ‘angry stand-off with
police’ in #Hungary? What on earth do they think they're doing?! They’re guests, not there by
any right!"
No action was taken for either incident, and he remains Chair of Greater Manchester
Conservatives


 • In March 2016, the deputy provost of South Ayrshire Council, Tory councillor Mary Kilpatrick
backed attacks on fasting during Ramadan and calls to outlaw Muslim veils.
She apologised, but the Conservative Party merely issued a reminder to all its elected
representatives and candidates over online behaviour. 


 • Boris Johnson, Tory MP and current Mayor of London, wrote in an article for The Sun in April 2016, that asserted that US president Barack Obama had an “ancestral dislike” of Britain, and described him as “part-Kenyan”.
He was criticised by Tory MP Nicolas Soames45 as “appalling” and ”totally wrong”, but backed by Nigel Farage. No disciplinary action was taken or investigation launched.


 • In April 2016, former Tory parliamentary candidate Shazia Awan wrote of Zac Goldsmith’s mayoral campaign, “one cannot forgive a collection of divisive literature and rhetoric within this negative campaign”, adding “if the current mayoral campaign is anything to go by, there is a very real danger that it will drag the party back to the prejudice, intolerance and ignorance of 50 years
ago.”


 • In April 2016, Fareham Tory councillor David Whittingham mimicked foreign accents, said he
didn’t want foreigners living in his road and made comments and behaviour that were “racist in nature”. He was kicked out of the Conservative Party in April 2016.

 • In April 2016, the deputy chairman of Bradford Conservative Association, Abdul Zaman, made
inappropriate comments about Jews and women while speaking at a launch event for the local election campaign. He was suspended.


 • In April 2016, Tory peer Baroness Warsi wrote, in relation to the London mayoral campaign of
Zac Goldsmith, “the right needs to weed out its Islamophobes ... Dog-whistle nasty politics is
damaging the UK”


 • In April 2016, lifelong Tory voter and Daily Mail columnist Peter Oborne wrote, “Goldsmith's
campaign for mayor has become the most repulsive I have ever seen”

 

 

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breadandcheese

breadandcheese

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, toddybad said:

It's gone deadly quiet hasn't it?

It's not really a case of which party has its idiots. It's foolish to suggest other parties don't have problems. However, it's equally foolish to ignore or downplay the significance of a community protesting about their concerns of prejudice and abuse being ignored. You only protest if you feel that the Labour leadership is not listening or taking the problem seriously (which they haven't). That's what makes this so serious and unique to the Labour party.

 

It's clear there is a problem and the disciplinary process for tackling this has not been fit for purpose. The Peterborough candidate situation sums the problem up perfectly and makes it clear that this is a party issue that has been allowed to fester for the last three years.

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Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted

Why can’t people just condemn racism, whether it be in their party of choice or the opposition? 

It’s like you think it’s acceptable because the other party is worse, nice, well done.

Maybe the Jewish protestors are being overly sensitive, maybe Corbyn is being attacked harder by the right wing press than you feel is just but do you really not think there are issues in the Labour Party with antisemitism right now? Really?

 

I got pissed off with brexit voters being labelled as mostly racist by some of the posters here, and now they just brush this of with whataboutisms and smears. Blaming critics of opportunism, unbelievable.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Strokes said:

Why can’t people just condemn racism, whether it be in their party of choice or the opposition? 

It’s like you think it’s acceptable because the other party is worse, nice, well done.

Maybe the Jewish protestors are being overly sensitive, maybe Corbyn is being attacked harder by the right wing press than you feel is just but do you really not think there are issues in the Labour Party with antisemitism right now? Really?

 

I got pissed off with brexit voters being labelled as mostly racist by some of the posters here, and now they just brush this of with whataboutisms and smears. Blaming critics of opportunism, unbelievable.

My point was every party has issues. They're bound to given the size of the parties. What I'm railing against is the politicising of the attacks of Corbyn. If you look at my earlier post there's some very senior Tories implicated and a serious lack of action of the tory party. 

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted

 

In one of the richest economies in the world, we have this:

 

#acountrythatworksforeveryone

Child poverty: Pale and hungry pupils 'fill pockets with school food'

Malnourished pupils with grey skin are "filling their pockets" with food from school canteens in poor areas due to poverty, head teachers say.

The heads, from various parts of England and Wales, described how some of their poorest pupils looked thinner, had poor teeth and a grey pallor.

One head said: "My children have grey skin, poor teeth, poor hair, they are thinner."

The government said measures were in place to tackle poverty.

Lynn, a head teacher from a former industrial town in Cumbria, did not want to give her full name for fear of shaming families in her school community.

She was one of a number of head teachers speaking to reporters at the National Education Union conference in Brighton.

They were highlighting the issues faced by an increasing number of children growing up in poverty, and how their experiences affect their education.

'Grubby clothes'

Lynn said that hunger was particularly apparent after the weekend.

She said: "Children are filling their pockets with food. In some establishments that would be called stealing. We call it survival."

Another head teacher from Nottinghamshire, Louise Regan, said: "When you take children out to an event, maybe a sporting event, you see children of the same age from schools in an affluent area.

"It's the grey skin, the pallor. It's the pallor you really notice."

She went on: "Monday morning is the worst.

"There are a number of families that we target that we know are going to be coming into school hungry.

"By the time it's 9.30am they are tired."

 

She said her school supplied some pupils with clean uniforms, and that they often came back in the same clothes, grubby, after the weekend.

The school has a food bank which gives out food parcels and a supply of clothes, shoes and coats for those without.

Poverty and neglect

Lynn said: "We have washing machines and we are washing the children's clothes while they do PE.

"We wouldn't have it that these children are stigmatised because their clothes are dirty."

The school also runs a summer school for three weeks over the holidays, run voluntarily by teaching staff without pay.

Howard Payne, a head at an inner city school in Portsmouth, said there had been a four-fold increase in the number of children with child protection issues.

"Every one of these issues has had something to do with the poverty that they live in," he said.

"It's neglect. It's because they and their families don't have enough money to provide food, heating or even bedding."

Hot meals

Mr Payne, who provides debt-counselling and family support at his school, said: "Three weeks ago, many schools in our area closed because of the snow.

"I kept ours open because I was really worried about the children - that they wouldn't have a hot meal to eat that day."

 

He said about 45% of pupils came into the school to eat that day.

All the heads said things were getting worse as social and emotional support services are disappearing.

The comments came as the NEU published research it had carried out with the Child Poverty Action Group.

It found schools are increasingly stepping in to fill the poverty gap, with almost half of the 900 respondents saying their school offered one or more anti-poverty services such as a food bank, clothes bank and even offering emergency loans to families.

'Proud families'

More than four-fifths said they say saw signs of children being hungry during the day and about the same said they say children showing signs of poor health.

Alison Garnham, chief executive of the Child Poverty Action Group, said: "With nine children in every classroom of 30 nine are falling below the official poverty line, it is time to rebuild the safety net for struggling families."

Lynn added: "My families are proud. Some of these parents are working two or three jobs and can't access the benefits system.

"They are just a few pounds over - they have less money than those on benefits."

Jane Jenkins, a head teacher from Cardiff, said children in her school often only brought a slice of bread and margarine for lunch and that teachers supplemented this.

"It's really difficult and when people are asking you about standards, why we don't go up the league tables?

"That's often a secondary consideration."

The Department for Education said it wanted to create a country where everyone could go as far as their talents could take them.

"That's why we launched our social mobility action plan, which sets out measures to close the attainment gap between disadvantaged students and their peers and targets areas that need the most support through the £72m Opportunity Areas programme."

A spokesman also highlighted the £2.5bn it invests in disadvantaged pupils through the Pupil Premium and a recent £26m investment in breakfast clubs.

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Sharpe's Fox

Sharpe's Fox

Posted
Posted (edited)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/australia-to-demand-britain-accepts-hormonetreated-beef-htwf9xxsb

 

Quote

 


Australia is preparing to demand that Britain accepts hormone-treated beef as the price of a symbolic early Brexit trade deal.

Liam Fox has identified a deal with Australia as an early “win” and informal discussions have been taking place for the past 18 months. But in return, Britain will be told to scrap a European Union ban on the sale of meat from cattle treated with growth hormones.

The practice can increase their weight gain by more than 10 per cent a day, cutting the time it takes to fatten the animals for market. The EU claims that at least one of the hormones used is carcinogenic and their use has been banned since 1981. The Australians have long disputed this scientific analysis. They see the ban as a form of protectionism to shelter European farmers from competition alongside tariffs of 12.8 per cent.

Sources close to the talks say lifting the ban is a key issue for the Australian side. Mr Fox, the international trade secretary, is understood to be sympathetic, arguing that it would reduce meat prices for consumers. Significantly, while the government has ruled out allowing the import of chlorine-washed chicken on animal welfare grounds, it has made no public comment on hormone-treated beef.

Behind the scenes, Australian ministers are understood to be arguing that the EU ban — which is based on a precautionary approach — violates World Trade Organisation rules requiring member states to present scientific evidence to support any plant or animal health regulations that have a negative effect on trade. Their stance is being backed by the Australian meat industry, which is keen to get access to UK markets that were lost when Britain joined the common market.

In a briefing paper for ministers, the Australian meat industry warned that if Britain imposed the hormone regulations after leaving the EU, “Australian producers will struggle to materially increase supply to the UK market”.

Another of the main meat exporters, JBS Australia, said: “In our view, the guiding principles for the Australian negotiators must be expanding access for Australian red meat through reducing technical and tariff barriers. When dealing with these trade barriers, this must be science based and consistent with WTO obligations. [This] is critical to . . . establishing separate arrangements for the UK.”

Environmental groups and farmers reacted with concern. “Ministers promised that UK standards on animal welfare and the environment wouldn’t be slashed post-Brexit, so caving in on hormone-treated beef would be a complete betrayal,” said Kierra Box, of Friends of the Earth.

John Royle, chief livestock adviser at the National Farmers’ Union, said: “Future trade negotiations should ensure a level playing field for British farmers in order for them to be competitive, profitable and productive in the future. We do not believe the British public would want our own farmers to be put at a competitive disadvantage by allowing the import of food produced to different standards and using methods which are not allowed in Britain.”

A spokesman for the Department for International Trade said: “This government has been very clear that the UK will maintain its own high animal welfare and environmental standards in future free trade agreements. To say anything else is untrue.”

• The EU has similar characteristics to the Soviet Union and will suffer a similar fate within a generation, a Brexit-supporting academic says. Gwythian Prins, an emeritus professor at the London School of Economics, says its “mounting complexity and declining legitimacy” have sowed the seeds of its demise and Brexit is merely the start. He argues that EU leaders had long ago stopped considering the interests of its citizens. The paper was written for a group called Briefings for Brexit, which claims the support of 50 academics.

 

 

bitch I don’t want me nor my fellow countryman to eat hormone beef that gives you cancer. Fvck free trade.

 

Edited by Sharpe's Fox
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Sampson

Sampson

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, toddybad said:

My point was every party has issues. They're bound to given the size of the parties. What I'm railing against is the politicising of the attacks of Corbyn. If you look at my earlier post there's some very senior Tories implicated and a serious lack of action of the tory party. 

You're only coming across as digging yourself further into a hole and caring more about defending "your" party than condemning anti-semetism.

 

Seriously, stop these kinds of defences, they're much more vile attempts at politicising and defending your party against accusations of anti-Semitism than any attack on the party for it is. It shouldn't matter if the attacks on Corbyn are being politicised or if it exists in other parties - that's self-evident and doesn't make it any better or worse. The leadership should be trying to stamp it out, that's what should matter here and should be the most important, not trying to deflect the issue and trying to de-politicise anti-semetism.

 

I never thought I'd say this in a million years, but even Owen Jones is right in this one

 

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/979268166701502465?s=20

 

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/979269026969944064?s=20

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