Sharpe's Fox Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 Just now, MattP said: Do you not think meeting this group is inappropriate given recent events? Haha absolutely not. They are Jews in a Jewish group, I thought this is what people wanted? But no because they are on the left and don’t like Israel they are those naughty self-hating Jews who, whisper it quietly, aren’t really proper Jews. ****ing hell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Haha absolutely not. They are Jews in a Jewish group, I thought this is what people wanted? But no because they are on the left and don’t like Israel they are those naughty self-hating Jews who, whisper it quietly, aren’t really proper Jews. ****ing hell. What are you on about? Nobody here has said anything about them not being "proper Jews" you melt. People are criticising Corbyn for even contemplating meeting a radical group that would be a divisive as calling for the destruction of Israel after the few weeks him and his party have had, regardless of the religion of the group or anyone else. Now if you could stop talking in hyperbole and putting words in people's mouths, that'd be great. Edited 2 April 2018 by Beechey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 5 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Haha absolutely not. They are Jews in a Jewish group, I thought this is what people wanted? But no because they are on the left and don’t like Israel they are those naughty self-hating Jews who, whisper it quietly, aren’t really proper Jews. ****ing hell. Has anyone said this?? Wtf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 Just now, Beechey said: What are you on about? Nobody here has said anything about them not being "proper Jews" you melt. People are criticising Corbyn for even contemplating meeting a radical group that would be a divisive as calling for the destruction of Israel. Now if you could stop talking in hyperbole and putting words in people's mouths, that'd be great. It’s a Jewish group. Run by Jews. Jews are allowed to have opinions of Israel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 1 minute ago, Sharpe's Fox said: It’s a Jewish group. Run by Jews. Jews are allowed to have opinions of Israel. Obviously. But the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition doesn't have to meet them, does he? Logic dictates he should meet non-radicals, regardless of their religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 4 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: It’s a Jewish group. Run by Jews. Jews are allowed to have opinions of Israel. Talk about missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 Just now, MattP said: Talk about missing the point. There was no point except the one that TLotO apparently isn’t allowed to meet Jewish groups in his constituency anymore, which has no merit or is worth no discussion whatsoever. The point Guido is trying to infer is that this particular Jewish group isn’t Jewish enough because they don’t like Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 12 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: There was no point except the one that TLotO apparently isn’t allowed to meet Jewish groups in his constituency anymore, which has no merit or is worth no discussion whatsoever. The point Guido is trying to infer is that this particular Jewish group isn’t Jewish enough because they don’t like Israel. The fact Corbyn has gone to this meeting whilst refusing to meet the JFL or Board of deputies sums it up.. At best it's (again) naive ignorance - at worst it's deliberate provocation. I find it hard now not to believe it's the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 Just now, MattP said: The fact Corbyn has gone to this meeting whilst refusing to meet the JFL or Board of deputies sums it up.. At best it's (again) naive ignorance - at worst it's deliberate provocation. I find it hard now not to believe it's the latter. Either way, the maths are the same. You can’t have someone either that stupid or that dangerous as the leadership of a mainstream political party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MattP said: The fact Corbyn has gone to this meeting whilst refusing to meet the JFL or Board of deputies sums it up.. At best it's (again) naive ignorance - at worst it's deliberate provocation. I find it hard now not to believe it's the latter. “Corbyn should meet with Jewish groups.” “No not those ones.” Edited 2 April 2018 by Sharpe's Fox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 1 minute ago, Sharpe's Fox said: “Corbyn should meet with Jewish groups.” “No not those ones.” Or maybe just meet with people who have concerns? Rather than just spend his whole time sat next to people who agree with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kopfkino Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 Just now, MattP said: The fact Corbyn has gone to this meeting whilst refusing to meet the JFL or Board of deputies sums it up.. At best it's (again) naive ignorance - at worst it's deliberate provocation. I find it hard now not to believe it's the latter. Of course its deliberate, the whole operation is cold and arrogant, anything that will strengthen the support of the cultists. It doesn't care as long as it can be harnessed against the evil Western way. I really feel for the Labour lifers that have had their party ripped to shreds by this lot, and poor Atlee ever being mentioned in the same breath as this lot as they seek things to give themselves credibility (Scandinavia being another). But the moderates really should be ashamed because they'll let it eventually blow over and continue to sit behind him. And because people are so opposed to the Tories, this lot will actually get votes from respectable people. How is it even possible that we are in a position where we could be governed by a man that's real goal will be anti-US foreign policy, supported by a man that will look to enforce classical Marxism at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Strokes said: Either way, the maths are the same. You can’t have someone either that stupid or that dangerous as the leadership of a mainstream political party. Time for his MP's to act. Don't expect a another challenge as they'll lose, but they should take the Woodcock route, stand on a platform where they won't vote for him to be Prime Minister even if Labour are elected - that way the people can vote for them but he has to go. Anyone who still campaigns for him to be PM is complicit in this, no more excuses from them. Edited 2 April 2018 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 2 April 2018 Share Posted 2 April 2018 His spokesman says he was appearing in a personal rather than professional capacity. I have no idea if that's an excuse but it appears it's supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 2 hours ago, MattP said: His spokesman says he was appearing in a personal rather than professional capacity. I have no idea if that's an excuse but it appears it's supposed to be. When you're the "government-in-waiting", there is no "personal capacity" in public. What a crap excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardinio'sCat Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 Andrew Lansley was not my idea of a good health secretary, but he does have a point about the cost of not funding public services to a decent level. Real people with real lives end up suffering, and it can cost more to sacrifice prevention on the altar of cost savings. Anyone who doubts the strain on the NHS currently should check out the BBC documentary series Hospital. If you can face more than one episode, you are doing better than me. Former health secretary Andrew Lansley has revealed he is being treated for bowel cancer. But he said that cuts “wrongly” imposed by the Treasury had frustrated the delivery of a screening programme he introduced in 2010 which could have ensured he was diagnosed earlier. https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/former-health-secretary-reveals-he-has-bowel-cancer-36768700.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claridge Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 8 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Who else is on your list of “good Jews” and “bad Jews”? If you’re a Jew and left wing it’s bad for another leftist to meet you, got it. Nothing wrong with people who hate Israel and want it's destruction meeting, after all it's a free country,just wish Corbyn would admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, MattP said: The fact Corbyn has gone to this meeting whilst refusing to meet the JFL or Board of deputies sums it up.. At best it's (again) naive ignorance - at worst it's deliberate provocation. I find it hard now not to believe it's the latter. It's becoming rather tiresome having to deal with corbyn's refusal to back down from his principals and be a normal boring leader. However, I prefer facts. He hasn't refused to meet anybody. He's written to both to request a meeting to discuss how to deal with the issues the last few weeks have raised. The Guardian has a piece on this which gives both the view of people at the event - saying they don't all have one particular view - and Corbyn haters like john woodcock - who predictably slags him off. There are quotes attributed to two others: The Jewish comedians David Baddiel and David Schneider said MPs and others should not immediately dismiss Jewdas.“They are just Jews who disagree with other Jews. ... To make out that it’s somehow antisemitic for him to spend Seder with them just because they’re far left is balls,” Baddiel wrote on Twitter.Schneider tweeted: “‘Boo! Corbyn needs to get out and meets some Jews!’ (Corbyn spends Passover with some Jews at Jewdas) ‘Boo! Not those Jews!’” What do I think? It isn't very bright in terms of the media he brings upon himself and the party. I don't particularly think it's wrong per se but it depends on what the real views of the group are and what views he expressed whilst there. There is a difference between what the guido site says and what the event attendees said in the Guardian. It's difficult to know. I don't think the fact they are radical left wing matters as it's in keeping with corbyn's stance anyway. I don't know what to think I suppose is my point. tbh I've thought for a while now that I'd prefer a different leader if they could keep half the manifesto (all the left wing stuff that got people excited) and keep the young engaged, but not have the negative associations and perhaps be a little bit more towards the mainstream economically. This doesn't really change that view. Thornbury 10, Starmer 11 please. Edited 3 April 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 (edited) Not a mention on here of 17 dead Palistinian protesters or the thousands injured in the recent peaceful march Odd, that Edited 3 April 2018 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 14 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Not a mention on here of 17 dead Palistinian protesters or the thousands injured in the recent peaceful march Odd, that Not really. It's a thread on British politics, not international current affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 1 minute ago, Buce said: Not really. It's a thread on British politics, not international current affairs. International current affairs have featured heavily in this thread. And Britain is involved in International affairs, being a country and all. As far as domestic politics goes and this Corbyn affair, he was at a meeting of Jews who happen to condemn Israel for genuine reasons which are not un-founded. There, the link is made. I think we need to define what anti-semitism is. It existed before Israel did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 2 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: International current affairs have featured heavily in this thread. And Britain is involved in International affairs, being a country and all. As far as domestic politics goes and this Corbyn affair, he was at a meeting of Jews who happen to condemn Israel for genuine reasons which are not un-founded. There, the link is made. I think we need to define what anti-semitism is. It existed before Israel did. Fair enough. So, what's your opinion on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 1 minute ago, Buce said: Fair enough. So, what's your opinion on it? Anti-semitism I think you mean? I think it probably does get snuck into discussions about capitalism, due to previous tropes such as were on that artist's work which consciously or sub-consciously are based on anti-semitic views, and condemnation of Israel's actions against Palestinians and I think i've become more aware of that through this whole labour party issue in the media That being said it cleary works both ways and anti-semitism gets thrown at people criticising Israel's actions and also sometimes capitalism in order to deflect from the pertinent issues. Its a great example of how wilingly or clumsily the waters get muddied in discussion and its difficult to have a conversation about these things Corbyn's general political outlook mean that of course he would be the sort to be a critic of Israel's actions towards Palestinians. I dont think there is anything anti-semitic in that, but things have wound up so that he attends a Jewish gathering and gets called anti-semitic, due to this political conflation This political conflation regarding him he may even be to blame for, because of say, supporting that painting which contained aforementioned anti-semitic tropes The point is, capitalism is a concern which needs addressing. Israel potentially needs to be investigated more strongly by the international community. Anti-semitism cannot be tolerated The conflation of these things should not exist as they are completely separate. But the fact that the conflation exists means we are not communicating properly on these matters. That is probably due to wilfull muddying of the conversation by partisan elements; also probably by accidental confusion caused by genuine anti-semitism; also by emotional reactions of people involved which is understandable Sorry, long post. Basically its a minefield. But as far as Corbyn attending this event goes I think the condemnation is a bit wrong that he gets criticised for it on a prejudicial claim when underneath thats really a political thing 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 6 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Anti-semitism I think you mean? I think it probably does get snuck into discussions about capitalism, due to previous tropes such as were on that artist's work which consciously or sub-consciously are based on anti-semitic views, and condemnation of Israel's actions against Palestinians and I think i've become more aware of that through this whole labour party issue in the media That being said it cleary works both ways and anti-semitism gets thrown at people criticising Israel's actions and also sometimes capitalism in order to deflect from the pertinent issues. Its a great example of how wilingly or clumsily the waters get muddied in discussion and its difficult to have a conversation about these things Corbyn's general political outlook mean that of course he would be the sort to be a critic of Israel's actions towards Palestinians. I dont think there is anything anti-semitic in that, but things have wound up so that he attends a Jewish gathering and gets called anti-semitic, due to this political conflation This political conflation regarding him he may even be to blame for, because of say, supporting that painting which contained aforementioned anti-semitic tropes The point is, capitalism is a concern which needs addressing. Israel potentially needs to be investigated more strongly by the international community. Anti-semitism cannot be tolerated The conflation of these things should not exist as they are completely separate. But the fact that the conflation exists means we are not communicating properly on these matters. That is probably due to wilfull muddying of the conversation by partisan elements; also probably by accidental confusion caused by genuine anti-semitism; also by emotional reactions of people involved which is understandable Sorry, long post. Basically its a minefield. But as far as Corbyn attending this event goes I think the condemnation is a bit wrong that he gets criticised for it on a prejudicial claim when underneath thats really a political thing No, I meant about the Palestinians that were shot... Good post, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 3 April 2018 Share Posted 3 April 2018 1 minute ago, Buce said: No, I meant about the Palestinians that were shot... Good post, though. Regarding the Palestinians that were shot...sucks to be them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts