Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Fox Ulike]

3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Well one obvious response is that men and women are different and have different interests.  For me that's no more of an oversimplification that claiming they're being held back by some malevolent patriarchal system which would rather discriminate by sex than let society - or more locally one's business - benefit from having the best candidates fill roles.

 

While there is no doubt that sexist bigots exist, I find it hard to buy that such attitudes are institutional to the point that women are globally oppressed in the UK these days when the highest public office is currently held by a woman.

Interesting post.

 

A lot of women take years away from their careers to bring up families – it’s then impossible for them to simply walk-back into their careers at the same level of pay as a male counterpart. That’s nobody’s fault.

 

It would be interesting to see Gender Pay differences minus this factor.

[leicsmac]

33 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Well one obvious response is that men and women are different and have different interests.  For me that's no more of an oversimplification that claiming they're being held back by some malevolent patriarchal system which would rather discriminate by sex than let society - or more locally one's business - benefit from having the best candidates fill roles.

 

While there is no doubt that sexist bigots exist, I find it hard to buy that such attitudes are institutional to the point that women are globally oppressed in the UK these days when the highest public office is currently held by a woman.

You could well be right, it would fit the situation.

 

I guess I'm just wary because the same malevolent patriarchial system you mention has been institutionalised in a lot of different places at a lot of different times throughout history and so it's difficult to shake the idea that system still lingers a bit in this time and this place (present day and OECD countries, not just the UK).

Edited 4 April 2018 by leicsmac

[Sharpe's Fox]

The only battle for social justice that matters is the one between workers and owners. Anyone trying to convince you otherwise is using bourgeoisie divide and rule tactics.  

[Rogstanley]

1 hour ago, Fox Ulike said:

Interesting post.

 

A lot of women take years away from their careers to bring up families – it’s then impossible for them to simply walk-back into their careers at the same level of pay as a male counterpart. That’s nobody’s fault.

 

It would be interesting to see Gender Pay differences minus this factor.

One way to do that is to look at pay for under-30's, when many women are yet to have children. The pay gap then is much smaller, to the point of being insignificant, and some studies suggest that women under 30 actually get paid more than men of the same age.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds

 

There's clearly many factors at play here and it's an issue that deserves serious study. That's why it's so disappointing to see the Prime Minister promoting such a dumbed down simplification of the issue.

Edited 4 April 2018 by Rogstanley

[Rogstanley]

1 hour ago, Fox Ulike said:

 

Interesting.

 

Bizarrely Corbyn could end up being the hero of this story.

 

Is this all deliberate? Is Corbyn now ‘playing’ all the fake media outrage to his advantage?

 

The whole thing is started to feel scripted – like an episode of House of Cards.

Was thinking this earlier. A couple of days of Corbyn bashing over the anti-Semitism issue would have felt reasonable. But the longer it goes on (what it is now, well over a week?), the longer they keep just banging on and on about the same old shit while ignoring the real problems the country faces under this tory government, the easier it becomes for Corbyn to spin it in his favour.

 

His haters are starting to look like a frothy lynch mob, baying for blood. When you consider their relentless aggression in the context of the almost imperceptibly mild event that kicked it all off, it starts to feel disproportionate to the point of evoking suspicion and that's something Corbyn can latch on to.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, James. said:

In that case the statistic's value is in highlighting the lack of women in doctor roles within the NHS. It now becomes a benchmark to evaluate progress towards having a more even split in future. In fact given the way NHS staff are paid it becomes quite a powerful measure... if the gap is lower next year it may demonstrate that women are better represented in more senior positions.

 

Obviously it's crude but I think the simplicity of it makes it a powerful way to monitor progress and identify where there are not just genuine pay discrepancies but also a lack of women in better paid jobs.

If there were equal numbers of men and women doctors being paid the same, but more women nurses than men on nursing wages, there would be a gender pay gap on average.

 

It is meaningless.

 

What they should do is look at each pay band in each service area separately to question why there are differences in specific roles. I.e. Why did men not want to go into nursing and is the chronic underfunding of wages for hugely important roles like nurses and carers part of the reason? Obviously also looking at numbers of doctors too.

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, toddybad said:

If there were equal numbers of men and women doctors being paid the same, but more women nurses than men on nursing wages, there would be a gender pay gap on average.

 

It is meaningless.

 

What they should do is look at each pay band in each service area separately to question why there are differences in specific roles. I.e. Why did men not want to go into nursing and is the chronic underfunding of wages for hugely important roles like nurses and carers part of the reason? Obviously also looking at numbers of doctors too.

 

Coz it’s a bit girlie?  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Coz it’s a bit girlie?  

All the evidence we need that women should probably rule the world

[Guest]

[Guest Kopfkino]

Ah the folk that are busy telling us how arbitrary national median wage figures show how destitute we all are, now believe median wage figures aren't useful. We got there eventually. 

[Guest]

.

Edited 4 April 2018 by Guest

[Rogstanley]

34 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Ah the folk that are busy telling us how arbitrary national median wage figures show how destitute we all are, now believe median wage figures aren't useful. We got there eventually. 

They’re somewhat useful for making a comparison between wages of men and women but are a long way from telling the whole story, so to stop and make judgements at that point like Theresa May has done is outright idiocy; frighteningly dumb given that she is the prime minister.

 

The figures are extremely useful, nay authoritative, in comparing wages over time. As for describing such a measure as “arbitrary”, well that just beggars belief quite frankly. Seems you’ve just felt the need to shoe horn in a little dig without having really thought it through. Wrong on all counts. Next.

[Sharpe's Fox]

I love these Jewdas guys their memes are very spicy ??

 

[Sharpe's Fox]

2 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

I love these Jewdas guys their memes are very spicy ??

Seriously these guys are amazing

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Seriously these guys are amazing

 

Pretty sure you can find more hatred than that in a months daily mail headlines.

[Strokes]

18 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Pretty sure you can find more hatred than that in a months daily mail headlines.

Ah, that’s ok then.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Ah, that’s ok then.

If our politicians only speak to people with views that are 'acceptable' we have a problem. Not liking the monarchy isn't illegal. It's well known KC himself isn't a fan. It should also be well known what my opinion of free speech is.

 

I'm getting a bit facetious before you point at the other two quotes. I'm bored of the story.

 

I'm still waiting to hear what those that said JC was 'siding with the enemy' for suggesting we needed to wait for the evidence to decisively point the finger at russia think now. 

Edited 4 April 2018 by Guest

[Guest Kopfkino]

17 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 

 

I'm still waiting to hear what those that said JC was 'siding with the enemy' for suggesting we needed to wait for the evidence to decisively point the finger at russia think now. 

 

Check the front page of The Times tomorrow. It's been hilarious seeing the Corbyn cult desperately claim yesterday saw him vindicated, when in reality, the story was, and should have been picked up at the time, Boris veering off the government line.

[Strokes]

33 minutes ago, toddybad said:

If our politicians only speak to people with views that are 'acceptable' we have a problem. Not liking the monarchy isn't illegal. It's well known KC himself isn't a fan. It should also be well known what my opinion of free speech is.

 

I'm getting a bit facetious before you point at the other two quotes. I'm bored of the story.

 

I'm still waiting to hear what those that said JC was 'siding with the enemy' for suggesting we needed to wait for the evidence to decisively point the finger at russia think now. 

I never said it was a crime but don’t ever get prissy about Mail hate and make out it’s a right wing only problem again please.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I never said it was a crime but don’t ever get prissy about Mail hate and make out it’s a right wing only problem again please.

More pointing out the irony that it's the daily mail reporting it.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, toddybad said:

More pointing out the irony that it's the daily mail reporting it.

It’s ironic that Labour and Corbyn worshippers constantly bang on about silencing hate and brush this off as ‘well we need to talk to these people’. If Trump had met KKK associated groups or May met Britain first groups there would be hell to pay and rightly so. Jewdas have some abhorrent views from what I can see and this is all a bit distasteful.

[leicsmac]

22 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s ironic that Labour and Corbyn worshippers constantly bang on about silencing hate and brush this off as ‘well we need to talk to these people’. If Trump had met KKK associated groups or May met Britain first groups there would be hell to pay and rightly so. Jewdas have some abhorrent views from what I can see and this is all a bit distasteful.

 

Well, calling "some of them very fine people" didn't seem to do his ratings much harm tbh.

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Well, calling "some of them very fine people" didn't seem to do his ratings much harm tbh.

And what do we think of trump supporters.....?

[Wymsey]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-43633204

[Carl the Llama]

29 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s ironic that Labour and Corbyn worshippers constantly bang on about silencing hate and brush this off as ‘well we need to talk to these people’. If Trump had met KKK associated groups or May met Britain first groups there would be hell to pay and rightly so. Jewdas have some abhorrent views from what I can see and this is all a bit distasteful.

What views are those?  (I can see the DM quotes above but frankly out of context like that it looks like somebody having a laugh.)

 

Fwiw I've just been onto their website where they've posted the following about sedergate:

 

Quote

 

Our Statement On Our Seder

Posted on 03/04/2018

While we remain opposed to the monarchy, we were delighted that the leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition, Jeremy Corbyn accepted our invitation to join the Jewdas community Seder. Jeremy was a 10/10 guest and provided delicious maror from his allotment.

In 1812 the British Government designated Jewdas to be the sole representative body for British Jews. We fulfill our role of being the voice for Anglo-Jewry by writing funny tweets, holding great parties and passing on the memes which we receive from God, via Geoffrey Cohen.

Sadly our God-given right to be the sole spokespeople for Anglo-Jewry is not respected by many heretical organisations which are known as ‘The Jewish Establishment’.

One such organisation is the dangerous fringe group which calls itself ‘The Bored of Deputies’. They continue to insist that their outdated and niche views represent all Jews.

We have been campaigning against antisemitism on the Left and the Right for many years. Like, way before it was popular. We have run anti-antisemitism workshops in such far flung corners as Marseille and Bloomsbury, opposed neo-Nazi demos in Stamford Hill and Golders Green, produced and distributed information on how to criticise Israel WITHOUT being antisemitic, demonstrated against left-antisemite Gilad Atzmon, and most importantly mercilessly took the piss out of Ken Livingstone. You could call us trend setters.

We are not happy with the Jewish Establishment, but we remain deeply involved in many synagogues and communal organisations (although this is mostly for the free food). We are unhappy with the pervasive antisemitism that still remains on the Left but continue to remain very much involved because we are committed to a better world and a better Left, and believe that the only way to tackle antisemitism is to keep fighting for our rights in the diaspora.

We are thrilled to be getting so much attention that Stephen Pollard was forced to admit we are a legitimate part of the Jewish community.

jewdas.

 

 

So again it sounds like a bunch of people with extreme-left views but a decent sense of humour.  Flicking through their site I am concerned that they seem to identify with antifa though, a group renowned for their staggeringly ironic fascist behaviour.