Rogstanley Posted 5 April 2018 Share Posted 5 April 2018 1 hour ago, toddybad said: Milk can be expressed. As a single father(a % of the time following split) I'm telling you this is bollocks. Apart from not havingthe ability to produce my own milk I could very happily have raised my daughter alone were it possible. Actually surprised that somebody with your normal views has posted that. I’m not saying it can’t be done, all the practicalities can be dealt with in some way, but I still think there would be something missing. In the example of breastfeeding, by feeding through a bottle you’d miss some of the bonding, the body warmth, the skin contact. It can all be replicated to an extent but not fully, imo. I guess what I’m getting at is that when it comes to gender pay, people say parental responsibilities should be shared more equally so women can work more and earn more money to close the pay gap, but that implies the role of a traditional mother is just an obstacle to be overcome in the pursuit of the more important goal of earning more money. It’s that devaluing of the mother’s role that I’m not keen on. Obviously I completely support opening up parental leave options so that people can make their own decisions, but do we really want to frame traditional motherhood as a bad thing just because it will in all likelihood mean they’ll earn less money? Not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 April 2018 Share Posted 5 April 2018 (edited) . Edited 5 April 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 5 April 2018 Share Posted 5 April 2018 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-43655793 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 April 2018 Share Posted 5 April 2018 18 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: It hard to disagree with the sentiment here. This lot are inept as are most local authorities administering the funding. There is a whole range of incompetence across the board. For example today I see a local council engaging in what appears to be a mass program of spraying weed killer around the city. Surely there are bigger problems to solve than a few weeds. The unfortunate thing is that a Labour government at least in its current form is certainly not going to make us a high growth, high employment, high tech economy. I won't take in the last paragraph directly. But I'll move the goalposts slightly by not necessarily talking about the current labour leadership. If there was a government committed to hi tech skills, education, economy etc, but wanted to do it via a government owned approach - so, for example, bring forward the end state of petrol engine sales by ten years to 2030, invest in reskilling current uk automotive workers, take the best academics and engineers, bring back proper government owned research and look to put government funding directly into electric vehicles and in-road induction based dynamic charging (so cars charge as that drive). Where's the catch? The government can outfund any private initiative. It can research and develop quicker on that basis. You can take leadership staff from the private world to utilise modern thinking on efficiencies, whilst giving staff decent T&Cs and pay, and work to wipe out vehicle pollution within a timeframe private finance can't - and won't - match. No profit to worry about, only a pure focus on a single technological problem. Once the answer is developed, sell it to our people at cost price and sell it to the world at a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Guest MattP Posted 5 April 2018 Share Posted 5 April 2018 David Lammy is easily the funniest man in parliament. His Mastermind performance is still top of the tree but he's just excelled himself again. Just stood on BBC news now saying he hasn't seen a policeman around for hours, as he's saying it a plod is standing right in the background Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted 5 April 2018 Share Posted 5 April 2018 Just saw Dianne Abbot on tv Compulsive, car crash viewing - thought she'd been banned by the party from doing tv appearances? (Or is that only during voting season)? Hope she's not banned - pure gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 April 2018 Share Posted 5 April 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 5 April 2018 Share Posted 5 April 2018 haha that is gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 April 2018 Share Posted 5 April 2018 Who was it saying recent events will help Corbyn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, toddybad said: I won't take in the last paragraph directly. But I'll move the goalposts slightly by not necessarily talking about the current labour leadership. If there was a government committed to hi tech skills, education, economy etc, but wanted to do it via a government owned approach - so, for example, bring forward the end state of petrol engine sales by ten years to 2030, invest in reskilling current uk automotive workers, take the best academics and engineers, bring back proper government owned research and look to put government funding directly into electric vehicles and in-road induction based dynamic charging (so cars charge as that drive). Where's the catch? The government can outfund any private initiative. It can research and develop quicker on that basis. You can take leadership staff from the private world to utilise modern thinking on efficiencies, whilst giving staff decent T&Cs and pay, and work to wipe out vehicle pollution within a timeframe private finance can't - and won't - match. No profit to worry about, only a pure focus on a single technological problem. Once the answer is developed, sell it to our people at cost price and sell it to the world at a profit. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if done the correct way. Could any government be trusted to get that right. The problem is that we do not make anything anymore, a lot of that was due to the late 1970s British Manufacturing Industry having a reputation of being shit and always on strike, you could never ever rely on a product being delivered and if it was it would probably fall apart. No Union member will ever admit it but the unions and their militancy played a huge part in destroying British industry. In the 60s and early 70s we led the world in road building, aircraft building, HST building, even making some decent cars. Unfortunately the inability of British Industry and the unions to accept modernisation led to much of it dying off. I am not sure that we could make it work now if we have absolute dinosaurs calling the shots like Mcluskey and Corbyn, we need modern fresh ideas. I do fully support a high tech, high employment, efficient, green economy. I would absolutely like to see well run, modern efficient British Businesses/organisations being successful globally and something we can be proud of. Edited 6 April 2018 by Foxin_mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if done the correct way. Could any government be trusted to get that right. The problem is that we do not make anything anymore, a lot of that was due to the late 1970s British Manufacturing Industry having a reputation of being shit and always on strike, you could never ever rely on a product being delivered and if it was it would probably fall apart. No Union member will ever admit it but the unions and their militancy played a huge part in destroying British industry. In the 60s and early 70s we led the world in road building, aircraft building, HST building, even making some decent cars. Unfortunately the inability of British Industry and the unions to accept modernisation led to much of it dying off. I am not sure that we could make it work now if we have absolute dinosaurs calling the shots like Mcluskey and Corbyn, we need modern fresh ideas. I do fully support a high tech, high employment, efficient, green economy. I would absolutely like to see well run, modern efficient British Businesses/organisations being successful globally and something we can be proud of. What are some of the major innovations the private sector have developed do you think? Go back as far in time as you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if done the correct way. Could any government be trusted to get that right. The problem is that we do not make anything anymore, a lot of that was due to the late 1970s British Manufacturing Industry having a reputation of being shit and always on strike, you could never ever rely on a product being delivered and if it was it would probably fall apart. No Union member will ever admit it but the unions and their militancy played a huge part in destroying British industry. In the 60s and early 70s we led the world in road building, aircraft building, HST building, even making some decent cars. Unfortunately the inability of British Industry and the unions to accept modernisation led to much of it dying off. I am not sure that we could make it work now if we have absolute dinosaurs calling the shots like Mcluskey and Corbyn, we need modern fresh ideas. I do fully support a high tech, high employment, efficient, green economy. I would absolutely like to see well run, modern efficient British Businesses/organisations being successful globally and something we can be proud of. And the Oscar for "Sweeping Generalisation" goes to... British industry declined for many reasons - but above all else it was simply because it become cheaper to make stuff elsewhere. Eg China. The problem wasn't really the decline in BritishIndustrial output per se, this was a consequence of free market economics. The problem was the lack of state responsibility to pick up the communities hit by the closure of manufacturing plants in Britain's industrial heartlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burmesefox Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 15 hours ago, MattP said: David Lammy is easily the funniest man in parliament. His Mastermind performance is still top of the tree but he's just excelled himself again. Just stood on BBC news now saying he hasn't seen a policeman around for hours, as he's saying it a plod is standing right in the background Whilst Lammy is amusing - you believe he is the joke of Parliament? Seriously, when we have the buffoon Boris, making sweeping statements, racist remarks, jumping to conclusions, getting things wrong time and time again, and being proven a liar as a foreign secretary? But oh no, its a minor shadow minister that is ridiculed. This just shows how right wing the press is in this country. We have been date raped into a right wing ideology and the overton window has shifted so far right than anyone slightly left of centre if regarded as militant, lefty, loony, etc. An immigrant, a working class man, and the billionaire newspaper owner sit down to tea. There are 10 biscuits on the plate and the billionaire takes 9 and says to the working class bloke, "watch out that immigrant is going to nick your biscuit". This is what is happening. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burmesefox Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 Just now, Fox Ulike said: And the Oscar for "Sweeping Generalisation" goes to... British industry declined for many reasons - but above all else it was simply because it become cheaper to make stuff elsewhere. Eg China. The problem wasn't really the decline in BritishIndustrial output per se, this was a consequence of free market economics. The problem was the lack of state responsibility to pick up the communities hit by the closure of manufacturing plants in Britain's industrial heartlands. Highlighted in bold is spot on! Germany managed because it invested in technical manufacturing and expertise, we just let it go overseas and then decided to be a laundry service for dirty off shore funds. Hence our over reliance on the finance industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 30 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: What are some of the major innovations the private sector have developed do you think? Go back as far in time as you want. There are many examples. The industrial revolution was driven by the private sector driving for efficiency. Companies like Dyson, JCB are often releasing new innovative products. The tech companies have revolutionised telephony, the way we shop, the way we eat, the way we communicate. I guess I would ask when the last major state innovation was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 15 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: And the Oscar for "Sweeping Generalisation" goes to... British industry declined for many reasons - but above all else it was simply because it become cheaper to make stuff elsewhere. Eg China. The problem wasn't really the decline in BritishIndustrial output per se, this was a consequence of free market economics. The problem was the lack of state responsibility to pick up the communities hit by the closure of manufacturing plants in Britain's industrial heartlands. Again you pick one line to highlight, I have never said it was the only problem. Of course there are many issues in declining industry. Great news that manufacturing as a percentage of gdp has been steadily rising since 2010. Cheap imports are not the only problem either, it yes will have affected some industry but not all. A big problem was quality of product, a big problem was unreliable delivery of product. To deny this was an issue is madness. Now there are UK manufacturers competing against Chinese manufacturers, I have worked with pottery companies who now produce a very high quality product and sell it across the globe for good profits. Our high value products are known now as some of the best in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 26 minutes ago, Burmesefox said: Whilst Lammy is amusing - you believe he is the joke of Parliament? Seriously, when we have the buffoon Boris, making sweeping statements, racist remarks, jumping to conclusions, getting things wrong time and time again, and being proven a liar as a foreign secretary? But oh no, its a minor shadow minister that is ridiculed. This just shows how right wing the press is in this country. We have been date raped into a right wing ideology and the overton window has shifted so far right than anyone slightly left of centre if regarded as militant, lefty, loony, etc. An immigrant, a working class man, and the billionaire newspaper owner sit down to tea. There are 10 biscuits on the plate and the billionaire takes 9 and says to the working class bloke, "watch out that immigrant is going to nick your biscuit". This is what is happening. I think he's comfortably the worst I've seen in parliament. Just off the top of my head we've got this, we've got the awful interview where he kept insinuating the Grenfell death toll was being covered up (something he's still not apologised for) we've got that bizarre appearance on the Daily Politics where he tried to claim a million Indians fought to keep the European Union together in World War Two and we got his outstanding performance on Celebrity Mastermind where he came last and showed an incredible ability to know almost nothing about so many subjects. No one else comes close to him yet for depths of embarrassment. Even BoJo. I have absolutely no idea how you have got to the last bit and to suggest this is actually the work of the right wing media. Maybe actually look at the idiot making the comments rather than trying to somehow weirdly connect it to a bit of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burmesefox Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 Just now, MattP said: I think he's comfortably the worst I've seen in parliament. Just off the top of my head we've got this, we've got the awful interview where he kept insinuating the Grenfell death toll was being covered up (something he's still not apologised for) we've got that bizarre appearance on the Daily Politics where he tried to claim a million Indians fought to keep the European Union together in World War Two and we got his outstanding performance on Celebrity Mastermind where he came last and showed an incredible ability to know almost nothing about so many subjects. No one else comes close to him yet for depths of embarrassment. Even BoJo. I have absolutely no idea how you have got to the last bit and to suggest this is actually the work of the right wing media. Maybe actually look at the idiot making the comments rather than trying to somehow weirdly connect it to a bit of racism. Absolutely not connecting this to racism. His colour and your comments didn't even register as being connected. Sorry if I gave that impression. The point I am trying to make, and I am not a Lammy fan for one minute; I think he's awful, is that he is given far too much media coverage given his status. There is an overly zealous attention to his mistakes that are being exploited for political gain when the spotlight should be on the clowns in charge that have led the UK to being predicted to be the worst of the world's leading and emerging economies for a second year running now. The diversion of attention onto him, and before him Abbott, and this Corbyn anti-semitism rubbish, is purely to take the heat off the Tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 2 minutes ago, Burmesefox said: Absolutely not connecting this to racism. His colour and your comments didn't even register as being connected. Sorry if I gave that impression. The point I am trying to make, and I am not a Lammy fan for one minute; I think he's awful, is that he is given far too much media coverage given his status. There is an overly zealous attention to his mistakes that are being exploited for political gain when the spotlight should be on the clowns in charge that have led the UK to being predicted to be the worst of the world's leading and emerging economies for a second year running now. The diversion of attention onto him, and before him Abbott, and this Corbyn anti-semitism rubbish, is purely to take the heat off the Tories. Sorry but I think that's conspiracy theory nonsense. The media have barely reported on Lammy doing these things, it's mainly been shared on social media. No idea where you have got the idea we are going to be the worst of the world's leading and emerging economies for a second year running either, we aren't performing great but it's also not a disaster, worth remembering the "experts" got our figures totally wrong in the aftermath of the leave vote as well - https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/gdp-annual-growth-rate If Corbyn doesn't want the spotlight on him for "anti-semitism rubbish" then maybe he should start acting against it, throw out the anti-semites in the party and take care over who he meets, stop sharing platforms with holocaust deniers and stop speaking out in support of people who engage is Jewish conspiracy theories. Just last night a Labour MP only just won a vote to hold off a motion against her for attending an anti-semitism rally, this is in 2018 - to suggest this isn't a problem at the moment in the party is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 3 hours ago, Foxin_mad said: It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if done the correct way. Could any government be trusted to get that right. The problem is that we do not make anything anymore, a lot of that was due to the late 1970s British Manufacturing Industry having a reputation of being shit and always on strike, you could never ever rely on a product being delivered and if it was it would probably fall apart. No Union member will ever admit it but the unions and their militancy played a huge part in destroying British industry. In the 60s and early 70s we led the world in road building, aircraft building, HST building, even making some decent cars. Unfortunately the inability of British Industry and the unions to accept modernisation led to much of it dying off. I am not sure that we could make it work now if we have absolute dinosaurs calling the shots like Mcluskey and Corbyn, we need modern fresh ideas. I do fully support a high tech, high employment, efficient, green economy. I would absolutely like to see well run, modern efficient British Businesses/organisations being successful globally and something we can be proud of. Trouble is that, imo, right wing ideology simply has to lead to failure. The only body rich enough to really push forward tech in a way that's good for humanity, and putting people first, is government. Outsourcing the future of tech and our environment to business is going to end in tears. They don't care beyond making money. It's time you accept that good wages paid to public sector workers to deal with the big issues facing our nation and world is the way forward. 1 hour ago, Burmesefox said: Whilst Lammy is amusing - you believe he is the joke of Parliament? Seriously, when we have the buffoon Boris, making sweeping statements, racist remarks, jumping to conclusions, getting things wrong time and time again, and being proven a liar as a foreign secretary? But oh no, its a minor shadow minister that is ridiculed. This just shows how right wing the press is in this country. We have been date raped into a right wing ideology and the overton window has shifted so far right than anyone slightly left of centre if regarded as militant, lefty, loony, etc. An immigrant, a working class man, and the billionaire newspaper owner sit down to tea. There are 10 biscuits on the plate and the billionaire takes 9 and says to the working class bloke, "watch out that immigrant is going to nick your biscuit". This is what is happening. I cannot give you more than one thumbs up. If I could, though, I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: There are many examples. The industrial revolution was driven by the private sector driving for efficiency. Companies like Dyson, JCB are often releasing new innovative products. The tech companies have revolutionised telephony, the way we shop, the way we eat, the way we communicate. I guess I would ask when the last major state innovation was? There were many innovations during the industrial revolution but if we just take a couple of big ones for the sake of example, say the steam engine and the power loom. James Watt invented the steam engine while working for the state funded Cambridge university. Edmund Cartright was funded directly by the government for the power loom. Then consider crucial things like the railway network which allowed for transportation of goods, again all state funded. Meanwhile the private sector was busy exploiting children and overseeing deplorable working conditions, in which many people sadly lost their lives. I think the latter part of your post refers mainly to the internet, which Tim Berners-Lee invented while working at the publicly funded CERN and he subsequently made his idea available for free, cast iron proof that profit was never his motivation. The internet probably would never have taken off had we not already had in place a comprehensive network of telephone lines which were, of course, installed by the state. I could go on and on really. While there's no doubt that the profit motive in the private sector does drive some innovation, to pretend that it is responsible for all, or even most, innovation is plainly wrong I'm afraid. Edited 6 April 2018 by Rogstanley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 14 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: There were many innovations during the industrial revolution but if we just take a couple of big ones for the sake of example, say the steam engine and the power loom. James Watt invented the steam engine while working for the state funded Cambridge university. Edmund Cartright was funded directly by the government for the power loom. Then consider crucial things like the railway network which allowed for transportation of goods, again all state funded. Meanwhile the private sector was busy exploiting children and overseeing deplorable working conditions, in which many people sadly lost their lives. I think the latter part of your post refers mainly to the internet, which Tim Berners-Lee invented while working at the publicly funded CERN and he subsequently made his idea available for free, cast iron proof that profit was never his motivation. The internet probably would never have taken off had we not already had in place a comprehensive network of telephone lines which were, of course, installed by the state. I could go on and on really. While there's no doubt that the profit motive in the private sector does drive some innovation, to pretend that it is responsible for all, or even most, innovation is plainly wrong I'm afraid. Don’t we know it. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 4 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: There were many innovations during the industrial revolution but if we just take a couple of big ones for the sake of example, say the steam engine and the power loom. James Watt invented the steam engine while working for the state funded Cambridge university. Edmund Cartright was funded directly by the government for the power loom. Then consider crucial things like the railway network which allowed for transportation of goods, again all state funded. Meanwhile the private sector was busy exploiting children and overseeing deplorable working conditions in which many peope list their lives. I think the latter part of your post refers mainly to the internet, which Tim Berners-Lee invented while working at the publicly funded CERN and he subsequently made his idea available for free, cast iron proof that profit was never his motivation. The internet probably would never have taken off had we not already had in place a comprehensive network of telephone lines which were, of course, installed by the state. I could go on and on really. While there's no doubt that the profit motive in the private sector does drive some innovation, to pretend that it is responsible for all, or even most, innovation is plainly wrong I'm afraid. Really? That's all the private sector did. Clearly, there is a place for the state when market failure occurs. If ideas are too outlandish or costly to finance privately and they have potential, then the state has a place to straddle the market failure. There's a question whether the state (or more a collaboration of countries) should fund a new antibiotic discovery programme as it is now too risky and costly for pharmaceutical companies to do. So there is a place for it, but it doesn't mean you need to slander the private sector. Also, I don't know about the examples of state funding above, but the railway network was originally built and financed privately. It was a network of localised private enterprises until the government nationalised during the first world war. Presumably this was done because a market failure arose from having small individually owned private networks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 6 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: I could go on and on really. While there's no doubt that the profit motive in the private sector does drive some innovation, to pretend that it is responsible for all, or even most, innovation is plainly wrong I'm afraid. I do not think anyone has ever said that. Both sectors are responsible for innovation, it would be stupid to say otherwise IMO. You have to of course accept that all sectors have their limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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