Fox Ulike Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: Again you pick one line to highlight, I have never said it was the only problem. Of course there are many issues in declining industry. Great news that manufacturing as a percentage of gdp has been steadily rising since 2010. Cheap imports are not the only problem either, it yes will have affected some industry but not all. A big problem was quality of product, a big problem was unreliable delivery of product. To deny this was an issue is madness. Now there are UK manufacturers competing against Chinese manufacturers, I have worked with pottery companies who now produce a very high quality product and sell it across the globe for good profits. Our high value products are known now as some of the best in the world. Well, many apologies for not commenting on things that you "never said" in your post. My mind-reading skills aren’t what they used to be. But yes, good point: the UK has switched to a more quality manufacturing market. Which is good for the economy - but with for example the pottery you mention - that's probably much less labour intensive than the industries we lost to overseas markets? So not much of a consolation for the communities which lost their main source of jobs in places like Scunthorpe… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 Tim Berners Lee the US military invented the internet, please show some respect to the US taxpayer. I'm pretty sure the most innovative invention by the private sector in the last century is the Furrby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 1 minute ago, Fox Ulike said: Well, many apologies for not commenting on things that you "never said" in your post. My mind-reading skills aren’t what they used to be. But yes, good point: the UK has switched to a more quality manufacturing market. Which is good for the economy - but with for example the pottery you mention - that's probably much less labour intensive than the industries we lost to overseas markets? So not much of a consolation for the communities which lost their main source of jobs in places like Scunthorpe… Some of them are quite labour intensive and using traditional skills. We also remain a producer of some high tech bulk steel products in the North East/Wales. Where we have lost out is low skill, low tech, low margin industry. It is correct that here and without appropriate tariffs we could never ever complete with the like of China. What we should be able to do or have been able to do is keep a British car manufacturer going, its a travesty now that we have no mainstream British car manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 1 hour ago, MattP said: Just last night a Labour MP only just won a vote to hold off a motion against her for attending an anti-semitism rally, this is in 2018 - to suggest this isn't a problem at the moment in the party is ridiculous. ? Not heard about this... what is all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 4 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: ? Not heard about this... what is all this? I assume it’s the result of this story. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-mp-faces-censure-motion-1406909 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 6 minutes ago, Strokes said: I assume it’s the result of this story. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-mp-faces-censure-motion-1406909 Thanks yes. What a cafuffle. Only Labour can self-flagilate like this... Real shame as she sounds like a decent MP as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 39 minutes ago, Strokes said: Don’t we know it. Nicely done Good to see you being accepting of a little joke again, thought they weren't allowed on here anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 I don't think the government can vote for their own policy here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 2 minutes ago, toddybad said: I don't think the government can vote for their own policy here Bursaries need to not only stay but significantly more places created. Hopefully this works 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 49 minutes ago, breadandcheese said: Really? That's all the private sector did. Clearly, there is a place for the state when market failure occurs. If ideas are too outlandish or costly to finance privately and they have potential, then the state has a place to straddle the market failure. There's a question whether the state (or more a collaboration of countries) should fund a new antibiotic discovery programme as it is now too risky and costly for pharmaceutical companies to do. So there is a place for it, but it doesn't mean you need to slander the private sector. Also, I don't know about the examples of state funding above, but the railway network was originally built and financed privately. It was a network of localised private enterprises until the government nationalised during the first world war. Presumably this was done because a market failure arose from having small individually owned private networks. It's not slander because it's true that the private sector's pursuit of profit lead to child labour and incredibly dangerous working conditions, just like it also lead to the slave trade and many other absolutely awful things throughout history. I did say that the private sector is responsible for some innovation too so I've put forward a perfectly balanced argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Tim Berners Lee the US military invented the internet, please show some respect to the US taxpayer. I'm pretty sure the most innovative invention by the private sector in the last century is the Furrby. Bit of both here - DARPA first established a connected series of computers that might be called an Internet, then TBL at CERN came up with the idea of making it so they could access and store all kinds of information, not just share files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 In other news, and this is international politics rather than UK but I'm not sure where else to put it: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-politics-park/south-korean-court-finds-ousted-park-guilty-of-bribery-idUSKCN1HD0MN I'm honestly surprised her sentence was that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 57 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: It's not slander because it's true that the private sector's pursuit of profit lead to child labour and incredibly dangerous working conditions, just like it also lead to the slave trade and many other absolutely awful things throughout history. I did say that the private sector is responsible for some innovation too so I've put forward a perfectly balanced argument. Haha. Balanced. Funny definition. Sadly, child labour and the dangerous working conditions were a product of their time. How much of that was down to the private sector is open to question. Don't forget that you can see child labour and dangerous working conditions in socialist and communist countries, so I'm not sure you can level it at the private sector's door. On another note, the slave trade was actively supported by various states. You can't pin that on the private sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 2 minutes ago, breadandcheese said: Haha. Balanced. Funny definition. Sadly, child labour and the dangerous working conditions were a product of their time. How much of that was down to the private sector is open to question. Don't forget that you can see child labour and dangerous working conditions in socialist and communist countries, so I'm not sure you can level it at the private sector's door. On another note, the slave trade was actively supported by various states. You can't pin that on the private sector. 1 It's an interesting argument. Did governments actively seek slaves for their own purposes? Or did they simply turn a blind eye while private actors/companies got on with it until the public pressure became too much? How much part did the revenue sent to governments from slave-operated companies play in all this? Personally, I think various governments were awful for turning a blind eye to the slave trade while skimming their cut from the profits made from it, but the ones that actually engaged in the enslavement and ran the trade were private, for the most part. State-run slave-driving (such as was practised by older civilisations and regimes such as the Khmer Rouge more recently) are another matter entirely and were absolutely awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 12 minutes ago, breadandcheese said: Haha. Balanced. Funny definition. Sadly, child labour and the dangerous working conditions were a product of their time. How much of that was down to the private sector is open to question. Don't forget that you can see child labour and dangerous working conditions in socialist and communist countries, so I'm not sure you can level it at the private sector's door. On another note, the slave trade was actively supported by various states. You can't pin that on the private sector. 5 minutes ago, leicsmac said: It's an interesting argument. Did governments actively seek slaves for their own purposes? Or did they simply turn a blind eye while private actors/companies got on with it until the public pressure became too much? How much part did the revenue sent to governments from slave-operated companies play in all this? Personally, I think various governments were awful for turning a blind eye to the slave trade while skimming their cut from the profits made from it, but the ones that actually engaged in the enslavement and ran the trade were private, for the most part. State-run slave-driving (such as was practised by older civilisations and regimes such as the Khmer Rouge more recently) are another matter entirely and were absolutely awful. Rather interestingly, I was reading last week that the amount of money which the government borrowed to compensate plantation owners for ending the slave trade was so vast that we only finished paying it back last year. All of us on here who have paid UK tax have helped to pay that compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 You know, I've kinda relaxed on here recently. I can't really be arsed with the stupid arguments as much as anything. I've said things that have been liked by fox, strokes and mattp. I've liked things written by fox, strokes and mattp. It's been cathartic. I'm yet to agree, or be agreed with, by webbo. Is this the last great left-right challenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 Just now, toddybad said: You know, I've kinda relaxed on here recently. I can't really be arsed with the stupid arguments as much as anything. I've said things that have been liked by fox, strokes and mattp. I've liked things written by fox, strokes and mattp. It's been cathartic. I'm yet to agree, or be agreed with, by webbo. Is this the last great left-right challenge? I've repped you on free speech and on banning drugs. I've noticed the lefties on here are more likely to admit to Corbyn's faults if I'm not the one pointing them out, so I'm letting people get on with it, for a while anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 Just now, Webbo said: I've repped you on free speech and on banning drugs. I've noticed the lefties on here are more likely to admit to Corbyn's faults if I'm not the one pointing them out, so I'm letting people get on with it, for a while anyway. I'll say it directly to you. Corbyn is not perfect. If I had a free vote I don't know if he'd even be my voice for leader. But then again, in that situation, I'd be leader. And I'd get you to vote for me too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 Don’t think I’ve ever been repped by any of the Tories, except maybe @stroker once perhaps. Have a feeling I will never be repped by Webbo, but I do notice he reps literally every post anyone makes opposing something I’ve said It’s a funny little forum this, fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: Don’t think I’ve ever been repped by any of the Tories, except maybe @stroker once perhaps. Have a feeling I will never be repped by Webbo, but I do notice he reps literally every post anyone makes opposing something I’ve said It’s a funny little forum this, fair play. Moose , I always used to rep you when you were on our side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 And that stuff doesn’t make it any less weird. How many people am I supposed to be again? If you’re a mod why don’t you just cross reference the IP addresses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 6 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Don’t think I’ve ever been repped by any of the Tories, except maybe @stroker once perhaps. Have a feeling I will never be repped by Webbo, but I do notice he reps literally every post anyone makes opposing something I’ve said It’s a funny little forum this, fair play. You're wrong there Moose !! ... I disagree !! ... (When you're ready Webster... ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 4 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: And that stuff doesn’t make it any less weird. How many people am I supposed to be again? If you’re a mod why don’t you just cross reference the IP addresses? Because you're using a VPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 6 April 2018 Share Posted 6 April 2018 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Because you're using VPN. He's only using NINE Visible Panties !! ... no wonder we can't trace him ! ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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