World Cup Draw - 15:00

[Wymsey]

A decent draw that.

Not sure the Tunisian manager is happy with the England squad..

'Tunisia coach Nabil Maaloul says he "knows all about" England's players and when asked about whether he was happy to be in the same group as them, he said: "Yes, and we will win."'

Edited 2 December 2017 by Wymeswold fox

[Dan LCFC]

That's about the best possible draw we could've had in every way.

 

When you got to group G and you were left with Belgium or Poland, I actually think it's preferable to have Belgium - not that I was thinking this at the time but consider that with it being those two it ruled out any of the Scandinavian sides, giving us an easier pot 3 side. With us being more likely to qualify as a result of this then why not just take Belgium anyway and avoid having to play them in a knock-out?

 

The way it's worked out is perfect. I'd say it's likely that England and Belgium both enter that game on 6 points and both already through. Belgium is a test so we can't rest on our laurels, yet despite that we've been dealt a very good hand - Tunisia and Panama were probably the picks of those two pots.

 

I've been convinced watching us that we'd be lucky to make the quarters, but some surprise omissions have made the groups look a lot more favourable and yet again we've fluked it.

 

If we don't get through that we are frankly an absolute disgrace.

 

And then if we do, the round of 16 opponent could've been a LOT worse.

 

Only two catches in my eyes are the distances we travel which while you expect it in Russia, we got a pretty bad hand on this, and the fact it's going to take about 5 days for us to even kick off after the tournament starts - we're usually quite an early pot if memory serves.

[ozleicester]

England @ 17/1... yeh ill have a piece

[whoareyaaa]

4 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

That's about the best possible draw we could've had in every way.

 

When you got to group G and you were left with Belgium or Poland, I actually think it's preferable to have Belgium - not that I was thinking this at the time but consider that with it being those two it ruled out any of the Scandinavian sides, giving us an easier pot 3 side. With us being more likely to qualify as a result of this then why not just take Belgium anyway and avoid having to play them in a knock-out?

 

The way it's worked out is perfect. I'd say it's likely that England and Belgium both enter that game on 6 points and both already through. Belgium is a test so we can't rest on our laurels, yet despite that we've been dealt a very good hand - Tunisia and Panama were probably the picks of those two pots.

 

I've been convinced watching us that we'd be lucky to make the quarters, but some surprise omissions have made the groups look a lot more favourable and yet again we've fluked it.

 

If we don't get through that we are frankly an absolute disgrace.

 

And then if we do, the round of 16 opponent could've been a LOT worse.

 

Only two catches in my eyes are the distances we travel which while you expect it in Russia, we got a pretty bad hand on this, and the fact it's going to take about 5 days for us to even kick off after the tournament starts - we're usually quite an early pot if memory serves.

 

Probably be better more prep and time for the team to gel, we honestly have a good chance of going the distance with players like Kane, Vardy n Rashford in front.

 

Another point that has always played against us is the temperature, the players think they are on holiday when the suns out stick them in Russia they will run the bollox off 

[Nalis]

Groups D and F are stinkers but very intriguing.

[KingsX]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/russias-group-is-the-easiest-in-modern-world-cup-history/

 

Before the World Cup draw on Friday, there was reason to suspect that Russia would get off easy. As the host country, it was slotted into Pot 1, which made it impossible for them to be grouped with a powerhouse like Brazil or Germany. But it looks like the Russians also had a little luck on their side. In fact, by one metric, Russia’s Group A is the weakest group in modern World Cup history.

Based on Elo ratings — a measure of a team’s quality that takes into account factors such margin of victory, game importance and game location — Russia’s group with Uruguay, Egypt and Saudi Arabia has an average rating of 1720, which is 98 points worse than the average of all World Cup teams. That’s the largest gap between group strength and the World Cup average for any group in the World Cup since the expansion to the modern format in 1986.1

 

The Russians avoided a whammy each time a pingpong ball was selected. After Uruguay joined them as the group’s Pot 2 team — Uruguay is middle of the pack, with an 1849 Elo rating — things really started going Russia’s way. Egypt, which has the second-weakest Elo of any team in Pot 3, was drawn, and the group was rounded out with Saudi Arabia, which has the lowest Elo in the field of 32. Compared with all of the potential ways Russia’s draw could have played out, its group ended up being among the easiest 2.2 percent of all possible combinations, according to the average Elo rating of its members.

 

(Of course, this is even better news for Uruguay, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, because they get to face Russia — the worst Pot 1 team by a wide margin — in addition to one another.)

[SouthStandUpperTier]

Based on Elo ratings

Why is Jeff Lynne's opinion relevant?

[SouthStandUpperTier]

There's been ''home cooking" going on at every World Cup. Even England in 1966 played the system to their advantage, so piling in on the Russians for their 'easy' group just reeks of hypocrisy.

[The Bear]

A few teams nowadays fudge the FIFA rankings to help with seedings in competitions.

Poland don't play friendlies for a start, and even employed a Romanian mathematician who instructed them how to game the rankings. Switzerland and Wales boost their rankings as well.

The new League Of Nations stuff should stop it soon enough any way

[Footballwipe]

TV Picks announced by BBC and ITV

 

tl;dr version - BBC get Tunisia & Panama and first pick in the QF, ITV get Belgium and the first pick in the RO16.

 

FIFA WORLD CUP 2018 - TV SCHEDULE

All times are UK kick-offs.

GROUP STAGE

Thursday, June 14

16.00 (ITV) Russia v Saudi Arabia

Friday, June 15

13.00 (BBC) Egypt v Uruguay

16.00 (ITV) Morocco v IR Iran

19.00 (BBC) Portugal v Spain

Saturday, June 16

11.00 (BBC) France v Australia

14.00 (ITV) Argentina v Iceland

17.00 (BBC) Peru v Denmark

20.00 (ITV) Croatia v Nigeria

Sunday, June 17

13.00 (ITV) Costa Rica v Serbia

16.00 (BBC) Germany v Mexico

19.00 (ITV) Brazil v Switzerland

Monday, June 18

13.00 (ITV) Sweden v Korea Republic

16.00 (BBC) Belgium v Panama

19.00 (BBC) Tunisia v England

Tuesday, June 19

13.00 (BBC) Colombia v Japan

16.00 (ITV) Poland v Senegal

19.00 (BBC) Russia v Egypt

Wednesday, June 20

13.00 (BBC) Portugal v Morocco

16.00 (BBC) Uruguay v Saudi Arabia

19.00 (ITV) IR Iran v Spain

Thursday, June 21

13.00 (ITV) Denmark v Australia

16.00 (ITV) France v Peru

19.00 (BBC) Argentina v Croatia

Friday, June 22

13.00 (ITV) Brazil v Costa Rica

16.00 (BBC) Nigeria v Iceland

19.00 (BBC) Serbia v Switzerland

Saturday, June 23

13.00 (BBC) Belgium v Tunisia

16.00 (ITV) Korea Rep v Mexico

19.00 (ITV) Germany v Sweden

Sunday, June 24

13.00 (BBC) England v Panama

16.00 (BBC) Japan v Senegal

19.00 (ITV) Poland v Colombia

Monday, June 25

15.00 (ITV) Uruguay v Russia

15.00 (ITV4) Saudi Arabia v Egypt

19.00 (BBC) IR Iran v Portugal

19.00 (BBC) Spain v Morocco

Tuesday, June 26

15.00 (ITV) Denmark v France

15.00 (ITV4) Australia v Peru

19.00 (BBC) Nigeria v Argentina

19.00 (BBC) Iceland v Croatia

Wednesday, June 27

15.00 (BBC) Korea Rep v Germany

15.00 (BBC) Mexico v Sweden

19.00 (ITV) Serbia v Brazil

19.00 (ITV4) Switzerland v Costa Rica

Thursday, June 28

15.00 (BBC) Japan v Poland

15.00 (BBC) Senegal v Colombia

19.00 (ITV) England v Belgium

19.00 (ITV4) Panama v Tunisia

[Finnegan]

On 03/12/2017 at 15:08, The Bear said:

A few teams nowadays fudge the FIFA rankings to help with seedings in competitions.

Poland don't play friendlies for a start, and even employed a Romanian mathematician who instructed them how to game the rankings. Switzerland and Wales boost their rankings as well.

The new League Of Nations stuff should stop it soon enough any way

 

How the **** do Wales boost their rankings

 

We only ever got to a bizarrely high position once and it's when we got to the semi finals of a major tournament, beating one of the dark horses en route. 

 

 

[The Bear]

By playing fewer friendlies.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/4936930/fifa-world-cup-seeding-ranking-system-russia-2018-wales/

[Vacamion]

 

The Duke Of Cambridge will not be attending the World Cup with the FA.

 

No matter, England’s midfield will probably also be missing this Summer, too.

 

 

[Wymsey]

Not sure how to feel about our prospects at this tournament at the moment.

The likes of Henderson, Lallana, Wilshere etc are bound to be selected but they've barely impressed this season.

But, the forward options are quite strong in Rashford (who seems to be improving more now), Kane and Vardy.

 

If we don't do well against Belgium, although they're pretty decent, it may indicate that the chances of making the quarter-finals or above that it'll be hard to achieve imo.

 

The Russians, in general, won't be happy if England were to do well within their country to say the least..

Edited 7 March 2018 by Wymeswold fox

[VLC86]

6 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

The Duke Of Cambridge will not be attending the World Cup with the FA.

 

No matter, England’s midfield will probably also be missing this Summer, too.

 

 

We have a midfield? News to me.

[Facecloth]

7 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Not sure how to feel about our prospects at this tournament at the moment.

The likes of Henderson, Lallana, Wilshere etc are bound to be selected but they've barely impressed this season.

But, the forward options are quite strong in Rashford (who seems to be improving more now), Kane and Vardy.

 

If we don't do well against Belgium, although they're pretty decent, it may indicate that the chances of making the quarter-finals or above that it'll be hard to achieve imo.

 

The Russians, in general, won't be happy if England were to do well within their country to say the least..

Don't agree with your Rashford comment Wymesy. He's barely played, and seems to be falling out of favour and going backwards. Now he's behind Lukaku as the main striker and it seems Martial, Lingard, Sanchez and Mata for a role behind the main striker. Southgate has even expressed concern at his lack of game time.

[Detroit Blues]

On 3/7/2018 at 18:53, Wymeswold fox said:

Not sure how to feel about our prospects at this tournament at the moment.

The likes of Henderson, Lallana, Wilshere etc are bound to be selected but they've barely impressed this season.

But, the forward options are quite strong in Rashford (who seems to be improving more now), Kane and Vardy.

 

If we don't do well against Belgium, although they're pretty decent, it may indicate that the chances of making the quarter-finals or above that it'll be hard to achieve imo.

 

The Russians, in general, won't be happy if England were to do well within their country to say the least..

I think England's has a very manageable path to at least the quarterfinals. Belgium has a lot of talent, but they never seem to play as a team greater than the sum of their parts. Panama is a very defensive team, but they lack the counterattacking threat that would be necessary to get a result out of England. Tunisia is the highest ranked African team, but their qualification group was particularly weak. 

 

Assuming England gets out of the group they would take on someone from group H: Poland, Colombia, Japan, Senegal. Some good teams to be sure, but England avoids the teams that are truly favored to win the world cup. Anything less than the quarterfinals would be an embarrassment. Anything beyond that I would consider a successful tournament. 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

35 minutes ago, Detroit Blues said:

I think England's has a very manageable path to at least the quarterfinals. Belgium has a lot of talent, but they never seem to play as a team greater than the sum of their parts. Panama is a very defensive team, but they lack the counterattacking threat that would be necessary to get a result out of England. Tunisia is the highest ranked African team, but their qualification group was particularly weak. 

 

Assuming England gets out of the group they would take on someone from group H: Poland, Colombia, Japan, Senegal. Some good teams to be sure, but England avoids the teams that are truly favored to win the world cup. Anything less than the quarterfinals would be an embarrassment. Anything beyond that I would consider a successful tournament. 

 

 

So to clarify, we either embarrass ourselves, or we are a success.  

 

im going for the former btw  

 

 

[ScouseFox]

1 hour ago, Detroit Blues said:

I think England's has a very manageable path to at least the quarterfinals. Belgium has a lot of talent, but they never seem to play as a team greater than the sum of their parts. Panama is a very defensive team, but they lack the counterattacking threat that would be necessary to get a result out of England. Tunisia is the highest ranked African team, but their qualification group was particularly weak. 

 

Assuming England gets out of the group they would take on someone from group H: Poland, Colombia, Japan, Senegal. Some good teams to be sure, but England avoids the teams that are truly favored to win the world cup. Anything less than the quarterfinals would be an embarrassment. Anything beyond that I would consider a successful tournament. 

 

same as normal tho ain't it. there's always "manageable" paths to the latter stages we just fu ck it up most the time. we've recently had groups that were topped by USA, Costa Rica & Wales after spending most the 6 months after the draw penning in our next round games vs a weaker team from another group. even when we got one even though fu cking wales finished above us we managed to lose to Iceland. 

 

no point planning things like that based on us winning this or these not being as good as these etc. if we win our 3 group games, two of which we will presumably be pretty big favs for, then we'll have a chance of a good next round draw. when we inevitably lose to Belgium, can't break down panama or something and then lose to Poland we'll all be crying again. probs. 

[Manwell Pablo]

23 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

same as normal tho ain't it. there's always "manageable" paths to the latter stages we just fu ck it up most the time. we've recently had groups that were topped by USA, Costa Rica & Wales after spending most the 6 months after the draw penning in our next round games vs a weaker team from another group. even when we got one even though fu cking wales finished above us we managed to lose to Iceland. 

 

no point planning things like that based on us winning this or these not being as good as these etc. if we win our 3 group games, two of which we will presumably be pretty big favs for, then we'll have a chance of a good next round draw. when we inevitably lose to Belgium, can't break down panama or something and then lose to Poland we'll all be crying again. probs. 

 

We got through the USA one just got handed by Ze Germans after, did alright at 2012 group stage wise. Last World Cup was a bit weird as well weren't it, I thought we'd struggle against Uruguay and Italy and thought we'd be on the first plane back and so it proved so I'd not say it was an opportunity missed but the Costa Ricans upset the lot of us. And as you say , biggest embarrassment about the last tournament was Iceland. 

 

I agree think we will get through the group but in 2nd I can see the poles doing us they are better than people give them credit for. Not that we aren't capable of beating them but we won't as as usual we won't turn up. If Tunisia qualify instead of us then oh dear. They'll probably fancy giving it a good crack though and why not.

Edited 10 March 2018 by Manwell Pablo

[ScouseFox]

1 minute ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

We got through the USA one just got handed by Ze Germans after, did alright at 2012 group stage wise. Last World Cup was a bit weird as well weren't it, I thought we'd struggle against Uruguay and Italy and thought we'd be on the first plane back and so it proved so I'd not say it was an opportunity missed but the Costa Ricans upset the lot of us. And as you say , biggest embarrassment about the last tournament was Iceland. 

 

I think we will get through the group but in 2nd I can see the poles doing us they are better than people give them credit for. Not that we aren't capable of beating them but we won't as as usual we won't turn up. If Tunisia qualify instead of us then oh dear. They'll probably fancy giving it a good crack though and why not.

yeah that's what I mean though, we always start planning our route to the final 6 months in advance and it's always based on topping the group. we'd have got Ghana then Uruguay on our way to the semis in 2010 but we finished behind America in the groups. we'd have got wales run to the final in 2016 but finished behind a country who doesn't even know what football is. just classic us. 

[Manwell Pablo]

9 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

yeah that's what I mean though, we always start planning our route to the final 6 months in advance and it's always based on topping the group. we'd have got Ghana then Uruguay on our way to the semis in 2010 but we finished behind America in the groups. we'd have got wales run to the final in 2016 but finished behind a country who doesn't even know what football is. just classic us. 

 

The guys American I think, I don't think many England fans who have half an idea will fancy us above belgium although he is right they have the same problem in playing to their potential that we do. Hard to say really I was surprised how many people fancied us in 2014 so maybe you are right, the league form of some of our players might lead into people thinking things might change this year. 

 

A few might fancy us to beat Poland I guess, all irrelevant if we manage to get that far I'm happy, a genuine top class team will see us off with ease and I'd doubt after the years and years of shit there are many left plotting our route to the final. Time will tell I guess, seems very little excitement in here given we are only three months off the start of the tournament.

Edited 10 March 2018 by Manwell Pablo

[ScouseFox]

5 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

The guys American I think, I don't think many England fans who have half an idea will fancy us above belgium although he is right they have the same problem in playing to their potential that we do. Hard to say really I was surprised how many people fancied us in 2014 so maybe you are right, the league form of some of our players might lead into people thinking things might change this year. 

 

A few might fancy us to beat Poland I guess, all irrelevant if we manage to get that far I'm happy, a genuine top class team will see us off with ease and I'd doubt after the years and years of shit there are many left plotting our route to the final. Time will tell I guess, seems very little excitement in here given we are only three months off the start of the tournament.

yeah that's fair. 

 

some of the elite players in the premier league are English, we've just got a few too many positions where we're struggling to even fill with "quite good" players, let alone top class ones. 

 

in kane, sterling, walker and stones we've got players who could argue to be amongst the best, if not the best at what they do in the world. but when the link between stones and sterling is jake Livermore, or when sterling's being doubled up on so we have to go down the other side and it's ryan Bertrand then obviously we're fu cked. 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

2 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

yeah that's fair. 

 

some of the elite players in the premier league are English, we've just got a few too many positions where we're struggling to even fill with "quite good" players, let alone top class ones. 

 

in kane, sterling, walker and stones we've got players who could argue to be amongst the best, if not the best at what they do in the world. but when the link between stones and sterling is jake Livermore, or when sterling's being doubled up on so we have to go down the other side and it's ryan Bertrand then obviously we're fu cked. 

 

 

Well tbf that's a formation problem as well, age old problem do you pick a system to suit the best players you've got or pick your system and tactics and try pick the best player to play that system.  I'll hold my hands up I laughed at people who said Vardy should play for England in Autumn 2015 but I'd have him in a two with Kane running the channels all day long now. 

[ScouseFox]

3 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Well tbf that's a formation problem as well, age old problem do you pick a system to suit the best players you've got or pick your system and tactics and try pick the best player to play that system.  I'll hold my hands up I laughed at people who said Vardy should play for England in Autumn 2015 but I'd have him in a two with Kane running the channels all day long now. 

partly due to the system that's true, partly due to the fact that in midfield (especially centrally) we are closer to the level of Andorra than Spain unfortunately. 

 

I still believe we'd be better with vardy up front and alli behind him, fully accepting we're rubbish with the ball and just going for it on the break with sterling, rashford, alli and vardy. firmly of the opinion that in a quick attacking team kane does nothing but get in the way, in a similar style to iheanacho for us most of this season. but I get that you can't not play kane. and we're never going to admit that we aren't very good so we'll have to keep trying to dominate games and hoping we find a spark of creativity (that we don't have) from somewhere. 

 

end of the day i'll get very drunk 3 (maybe 4) times in about 10 days and have a blast and then spend the next 2 years complaining about us being rubbish. cheers.