Dragovic

[Gerard]

I didn't go to the match yesterday so can't judge him on that but from what I've seen so far of him he's decent but nothing exceptional.

 

Unless by the end of the season he undisputedly one of our best two centre backs then we shouldn't buy him. Pointless spending that kind of money on players that are neither very young and can't get a place in the first XI. So far Puel has preferred Morgan so we'll see by the end of the season if he can still keep Morgan and Huth out the team.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Be interested to see if Puel has the balls to keep him in the side when Wes make a return. 

He should definitely keep Dragovic as the starter.

 

For me having the two centre backs playing it out from the back makes a massive difference.

 

It pushes the whole team 20 yards higher up the pitch.The midfield know they are going to get the ball to feet rather than it going over their heads to the opposition where then they have the worry about tracking back immediately. With Morgan and Simpson being asked to pass, both the defence and midfield are on a knife edge because they are not good enough to do it, or it’s a hoof which 9 times out of 10 gives up possession.

 

Whilst Wes and Simmo may appear be more secure defensively than Amartey and Drago, the better footballing abilities of the latter two may make us concede less goals simply because the opposition have the ball less, and we have possession of the ball higher up the pitch.

 

Whilst one swallow doesn’t make a summer, yesterday’s performance was almost startling in its contrast to previous away performances at top six clubs for the last 2 years.

 

This looks like the way forward and for me I’d continue with yesterday’s back four until such time it’s shown it doesn’t work.

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 January 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[NotTheMarketLeader]

14 minutes ago, Gerard said:

I didn't go to the match yesterday so can't judge him on that but from what I've seen so far of him he's decent but nothing exceptional.

 

Unless by the end of the season he undisputedly one of our best two centre backs then we shouldn't buy him. Pointless spending that kind of money on players that are neither very young and can't get a place in the first XI. So far Puel has preferred Morgan so we'll see by the end of the season if he can still keep Morgan and Huth out the team.

I say this with respect.

 

If you had seen that performance yesterday, not only Dragovic but the whole team performance you would not want to be bringing the likes of Wes and Simpson back anytime soon.

 

There is no way we could be in control of the game as we were with their ‘passing’ of the football. 

Edited 14 January 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[st albans fox]

20 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

@themightyfinis 100% right.

 

It would be pointless having an option to buy without a set price already in place as the selling club could ask for £100m and render it worthless.

 

There will be a fixed price agreed between both clubs and Dragovic will already be obligated to sign an already negotiated contract. We are within our rights to bid less than the "option to buy" price but neither Leverkusen or Dragovic are obligated to accept.

Not sure about this - I agree that the clubs are tied in to an agreed deal (as is the player re terms), but the player is surely entitled to refuse to move at the end of the loan deal. 

[HighPeakFox]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Not sure about this - I agree that the clubs are tied in to an agreed deal (as is the player re terms), but the player is surely entitled to refuse to move at the end of the loan deal. 

I suspect he means 'assuming he chooses to sign'

[Wolfox]

2 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Be interested to see if Puel has the balls to keep him in the side when Wes make a return. 

A nice problem to have, but, let’s not forget that Wes has done nothing wrong at all first half of the season

[dynamark]

Evidence is in the results .Drago is tidy stays on his feet and Amarty is doing pretty well in particular coming over and intercepting a couple of crucial through balls.

Fuchs in for Chilwell is a really good back four.Chilwell has to do more with his right foot.He has  career but at what level.

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Not sure about this - I agree that the clubs are tied in to an agreed deal (as is the player re terms), but the player is surely entitled to refuse to move at the end of the loan deal. 

 

I'm not 100% sure but logic says that having an option to buy is also worthless unless the player has agreed to it as well. It's pointless having a fee agreed with the selling club if the player isn't obligated to this contract as well.

 

Just for an example lets assume that Real Madrid want Dragovic for £100m this summer. Leverkusen are obligated to sell him to us for an already agreed fee but Dragovic refuses to sign for Leicester even if offered a £10m signing on fee and £250k a week because Leverkusen assure him they will sell him to Real Madrid for £100m and give him a £20m loyalty bonus.

 

It only makes sense that all parties have to agree otherwise it's basically worthless if the player excels.

[MPH]

3 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Interesting, I'm not sure that's the case, but if you're right, good knowledge.

If we loaned him and he plays well with no set fee, the selling club is likely to up the price.

 

we got stung that way with Muzzy Izzet, actually. Originally a fee of 60k was talked about when we initially agreed the loan from Chelsea, no fee agreed , he plays a blinder and then had to pay 600k for him. Not big money now, of course..but that’s a tenfold increase..

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

I didn't go to the match yesterday so can't judge him on that but from what I've seen so far of him he's decent but nothing exceptional.

 

Unless by the end of the season he undisputedly one of our best two centre backs then we shouldn't buy him. Pointless spending that kind of money on players that are neither very young and can't get a place in the first XI. So far Puel has preferred Morgan so we'll see by the end of the season if he can still keep Morgan and Huth out the team.

 

See your point completely.

 

its a good fee though for someone if they are good enough to replace Morgan...

[norfolkfox222]

Big fan of this lad liked the look of him in every game so far. Hope we can sign him up in the summer

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Not sure about this - I agree that the clubs are tied in to an agreed deal (as is the player re terms), but the player is surely entitled to refuse to move at the end of the loan deal. 

 

Also I've just recalled that Morata had a buy back clause when he left Real Madrid for Juventus. He didn't want to go back to Madrid as they were only buying him back to sell him for a bigger fee but Morata had no say in it because he was contractually obligated to go back if Real Madrid triggered the buy back clause.

[lgfualol]

3 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Be interested to see if Puel has the balls to keep him in the side when Wes make a return. 

Wasnt there a rumour that Morgan told the club he would leave the club if we dare replace him

 

Morgan is a great defender but yesterday it was just fantastic seeing the ball stick on the floor. Morgan definitely would have tried some aimless hoofs.

[foxy boxing]

has done well And it will be good to see him get a run in the side and see how he develops in the team. I would still like us to get defensive cover in but he is proving himself.

[frany104]

11 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Not sure about this - I agree that the clubs are tied in to an agreed deal (as is the player re terms), but the player is surely entitled to refuse to move at the end of the loan deal. 

This is correct. The fee is the only pre-agreed part of the deal. Dragovic has to accept a contract before it becomes permanent. You would think though having come on loan originally we would only bid if we wanted him and he wanted to stay.

[Ric Flair]

Prior to him going to Leverkusen he was considered one of the best emerging defenders in Europe. The pedigree is there and I'm so glad he's now getting a chance as it was going to require a free run at the team for him to establish himself. I'd be all over a permanent move. 

[HighPeakFox]

Let's not forget he's an established international defender for a country that, until recently, was considered very good indeed. I hope both parties like what they see and want to make the move permanent - Morgan and Huth cannot go on forever, we're getting a glimpse into the future.

[Foxxed]

Wes was called a limited defender by a lot. But the one thing he was excellent at was muscling his way to head the ball out of danger. And when were pushing teams out wide to wait for the incoming cross to head out for a potential counter we played to his strength. If we're not playing like that anymore then he's somewhat farther down the teamsheet. Possibly farther down than Drag.

Edited 15 January 2018 by Foxxed

[vanity]

I have tried to take the time to watch him via replays, he is a talented CB with the requisite physicality for the Prem, and he is an unusually accurate long passer. When Dragovic plays, we tend to do well, I know he played most of the Huddersfield match, so I credit him with three consecutive clean sheets. The more he plays, the more comfortable he looks out there, and I expect him to unleash some of his dynamic passing from the back to around midfield to initiate the break as he grows in confidence. I really like Wes, but the way we are playing with AD, I mean, idk how he gets back in if Dragovic is healthy. That said, while Wes can take some time, heal up and all, I suspect he will be needed again this season, so we need him ready.

 

I have to say, 2017 was outstanding for transfers for us. We spent less than 30 mill and got two starting-quality CBs. We picked up Ndidi and Iborra on the cheap, we added Adrien Silva, we got Sam Hughes for the future as well. We clearly missed on Jakupovic, we probably got it wrong with Wague (tho he was injured so fast, and is playing in the Prem now, so he was at minimum someone good enough for a top-half side like Watford to start against us), and the jury is out on Iheanacho, though right now he's a pricy bust. 

 

But overall, 2017 saw us add five starting-quality players to the side. That is an outstanding haul compared to past seasons where we spent aggressively. It gives me some hope for the future that we have quality talent scouts doing their job, while Eduardo Macia oversees the recruiting operation. Further, if we look at the u-23s bossing the competition, we prob have 3-4 youngsters ready to start contributing to the big club. We have done a terrific job at reloading for when Vardy/Mahrez are gone.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, vanity said:

I have tried to take the time to watch him via replays, he is a talented CB with the requisite physicality for the Prem, and he is an unusually accurate long passer. When Dragovic plays, we tend to do well, I know he played most of the Huddersfield match, so I credit him with three consecutive clean sheets. The more he plays, the more comfortable he looks out there, and I expect him to unleash some of his dynamic passing from the back to around midfield to initiate the break as he grows in confidence. I really like Wes, but the way we are playing with AD, I mean, idk how he gets back in if Dragovic is healthy. That said, while Wes can take some time, heal up and all, I suspect he will be needed again this season, so we need him ready.

 

I have to say, 2017 was outstanding for transfers for us. We spent less than 30 mill and got two starting-quality CBs. We picked up Ndidi and Iborra on the cheap, we added Adrien Silva, we got Sam Hughes for the future as well. We clearly missed on Jakupovic, we probably got it wrong with Wague (tho he was injured so fast, and is playing in the Prem now, so he was at minimum someone good enough for a top-half side like Watford to start against us), and the jury is out on Iheanacho, though right now he's a pricy bust. 

 

But overall, 2017 saw us add five starting-quality players to the side. That is an outstanding haul compared to past seasons where we spent aggressively. It gives me some hope for the future that we have quality talent scouts doing their job, while Eduardo Macia oversees the recruiting operation. Further, if we look at the u-23s bossing the competition, we prob have 3-4 youngsters ready to start contributing to the big club. We have done a terrific job at reloading for when Vardy/Mahrez are gone.

Dont give up or buzz out on Jakupovic yet. Yes hes 32 but imo hes got many good games in him.

He gives us 3 solid seasons hes done his job.

Compsring L'pool gk woes, I reckon our 2 backups are more than decent. Too many neg-posters

love to go ott with detailed  analyse, Hamer and Jaku..If either one had to come in for cover, its not

Panic stations...I would though like to know how our young Gks  investments are fairing....

[Koke]

One of things about Dragovic is I often dobt even notice him on the pitch. I started a thread about him after the Leeds cup win saying i didnt know what to make of him cos he was barely noticeable in games. 

 

I agree with @NotTheMarketLeader that when he and Maguire play it pushes us 20 yards further up the field and we are likely to concede less due to us having the ball more. 

[mozartfox]

3 hours ago, vanity said:

I have tried to take the time to watch him via replays, he is a talented CB with the requisite physicality for the Prem, and he is an unusually accurate long passer. When Dragovic plays, we tend to do well, I know he played most of the Huddersfield match, so I credit him with three consecutive clean sheets. The more he plays, the more comfortable he looks out there, and I expect him to unleash some of his dynamic passing from the back to around midfield to initiate the break as he grows in confidence. I really like Wes, but the way we are playing with AD, I mean, idk how he gets back in if Dragovic is healthy. That said, while Wes can take some time, heal up and all, I suspect he will be needed again this season, so we need him ready.

 

I have to say, 2017 was outstanding for transfers for us. We spent less than 30 mill and got two starting-quality CBs. We picked up Ndidi and Iborra on the cheap, we added Adrien Silva, we got Sam Hughes for the future as well. We clearly missed on Jakupovic, we probably got it wrong with Wague (tho he was injured so fast, and is playing in the Prem now, so he was at minimum someone good enough for a top-half side like Watford to start against us), and the jury is out on Iheanacho, though right now he's a pricy bust. 

 

But overall, 2017 saw us add five starting-quality players to the side. That is an outstanding haul compared to past seasons where we spent aggressively. It gives me some hope for the future that we have quality talent scouts doing their job, while Eduardo Macia oversees the recruiting operation. Further, if we look at the u-23s bossing the competition, we prob have 3-4 youngsters ready to start contributing to the big club. We have done a terrific job at reloading for when Vardy/Mahrez are gone.

Thanks Rudders for the summary.   Let's hope we can unload the Turkeys soon. 

[WigstonWanderer]

21 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Interesting, I'm not sure that's the case, but if you're right, good knowledge.

An option to buy without setting a price would be worthless. The selling club could simply quote a ridiculous price if they changed their minds.

 

Edit: I see this has already been discussed in depth.

Edited 15 January 2018 by WigstonWanderer

[st albans fox]

Can we just assume that a price is already set. That much is certain. It may vary depending on how many starts he makes etc  this campaign but it will not be negotiable come June or there is no point having an option to buy. 

 

The rest we arent sure about ......

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

I'd imagine he's ours on a perm if we want him. But will he want us? Seen a lot of bench time already. He will want to know he is not 3 or 4th choice when all CBs fit.