Dragovic

[vanity]

6 hours ago, Babylon said:

Not really fair, he's done well but Morgan as usual has been pretty solid and has adapted to the passing side of it better than Simpson for me. I have no issue with Morgan coming back into the team on the back of his own performances this year.

It isn't a huge sample size, but so far, do better defensively this season with Dragovic playing instead of Morgan. It is patently fair to start the player who gives us the better chance at winning.

[Koke]

32 minutes ago, murphy said:

 I would assume that his loan fee will be taken off the transfer fee?

 

I like him but it still seems about £5m too much for me.  

 

£15m is a good fee tbh. There are bang average players going for £20m these days so I think we could potentially get a good CB for pittance.

[vanity]

39 minutes ago, murphy said:

 I would assume that his loan fee will be taken off the transfer fee?

 

I like him but it still seems about £5m too much for me.  

I get why you say that, but forget what BL paid for him and what they are getting. If we don't sign him, then we need to buy another CB, yeah? What are we going to pay for a starting CB with proven Premier League experience? If we exercise our option, we get him for three more seasons, which will be his prime. With Mahrez and Maguire likely to solicit healthy bids in the summer from elite sides, IDK, I think we'll be flush with cash, and keeping him around would actually be a cheaper option than buying a comparable replacement.

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, vanity said:

I get why you say that, but forget what BL paid for him and what they are getting. If we don't sign him, then we need to buy another CB, yeah? What are we going to pay for a starting CB with proven Premier League experience? If we exercise our option, we get him for three more seasons, which will be his prime. With Mahrez and Maguire likely to solicit healthy bids in the summer from elite sides, IDK, I think we'll be flush with cash, and keeping him around would actually be a cheaper option than buying a comparable replacement.

I dunno.  I'm not against signing him, I like him, but I don't think he is outstanding.

 

I just think that he may be a little over priced, not based on his last transfer, I'm just not sure he's a 20m Euro player.  I would have thought you could get a bit better for that price but I could be wrong.

[les-tah]

22 minutes ago, murphy said:

I dunno.  I'm not against signing him, I like him, but I don't think he is outstanding.

 

I just think that he may be a little over priced, not based on his last transfer, I'm just not sure he's a 20m Euro player.  I would have thought you could get a bit better for that price but I could be wrong.

May I ask what is outstanding to you? Not all centre backs dribble past 3 players like maguire ... he’s literally 4 clean sheets he couldn’t do anymore atm?

[murphy]

14 minutes ago, les-tah said:

May I ask what is outstanding to you? Not all centre backs dribble past 3 players like maguire ... he’s literally 4 clean sheets he couldn’t do anymore atm?

Well a number of people have said that they haven't noticed him in recent games and meant it as a compliment.  In other words he goes about his work efficiently and hasn't made any obvious errors (we'll forget that backpass).  It's the same with referees.  You know they've had a good game if you don't notice them.  So as I say, I like him.  Outstanding for me would be a commanding centre half that you do notice.

 

BTW you make the point yourself.  Maguire is outstanding and the same money.

 

All I'm saying is that he seems a tad over priced.   I certainly won't complain if we sign him but is there better around for that price or a little bit more?  Gibson £25m?

Edited 17 January 2018 by murphy

[Babylon]

55 minutes ago, vanity said:

It isn't a huge sample size, but so far, do better defensively this season with Dragovic playing instead of Morgan. It is patently fair to start the player who gives us the better chance at winning.

It's patently ridiculous to suggest that after after three games, two of which were against a league one club. 

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Webbo said:

If we do have an option to buy in the summer there's no point in buying now, that money's better in our bank than theirs, what if he breaks his leg?

 It sure people are suggesting we buy him now are they?

[Babylon]

10 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

 

Should just take it one game at a time and praise him for the performance against Chelsea and for doing nothing wrong in the others which weren't much of a test. Start him in the next few games and see if he keeps it up then we can judge.

Indeed.... I think he's decent but I heard all this last time about Benny. "He's better than Morgan" etc

 

Wes rarely lets us down and more than deserves to be a starting player still.

[vanity]

22 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

 

Should just take it one game at a time and praise him for the performance against Chelsea and for doing nothing wrong in the others which weren't much of a test. Start him in the next few games and see if he keeps it up then we can judge.

I don't think the book is closed. But at this point in time, we need to see what we have and give him the starts. Wes needs a rest anyhow, he can recover and be ready and refreshed later in the season. I expect we'll need a CB to be ready to step in at some point.

 

26 minutes ago, Babylon said:

It's patently ridiculous to suggest that after after three games, two of which were against a league one club. 

Four consecutive games, not three. There is nothing absurd about saying our results are better with Dragovic starting. That's a fact. Whether it is correlation or causation remains a question, as does whether the sample size is too small. I think it is too small to make a decision re who the starter is going forward, but large enough that Wes is not gifted his starting role back if he returns healthy tomorrow. Puel has the call, not you or me, but I think my position makes sense, and not just bc we are performing so well -- we also need to evaluate Dragovic under Premier League conditions and make a decision, as the option to buy is an asset. To be clear, I think giving Wes back is starting job is also defensible, I just believe it to be rooted in sentimentality and loyalty, two things I usually appreciate, but in this case it doesn't cost us or Wes much to give Dragovic a run of games. But I agree we still need to see how this plays out before deciding either is the starter going forward.

[Vardinio'sCat]

 

The good thing is we have a few more games to assess him before he is challenged for his place.

 

With all due respect to Wes and Huth, this is good news for LCFC, we have much better options at CB than last season.

Edited 17 January 2018 by Vardinio'sCat

[Babylon]

13 hours ago, vanity said:

Four consecutive games, not three.

Three starts actually because Wes started against Huddersfield and we looked absolutely fine defensively whilst he was on the pitch. Presumably he gets no credit for his time on the pitch.

 

13 hours ago, vanity said:

There is nothing absurd about saying our results are better with Dragovic starting. That's a fact.

Better than what? Better than beating Spurs, Burnley, Saints away, Newcastle away? Do they get struck from the record because we struggled over a congested Christmas period?

 

Well It think it's pretty absurd to suggest results are better considering 1) Wes started our most convincing win 2) two of the games were against a league one team, who actually had more shots on target than we managed. 3) The only premier league game he started was just a draw.

 

 

13 hours ago, vanity said:

I think it is too small to make a decision re who the starter is going forward, but large enough that Wes is not gifted his starting role back if he returns healthy tomorrow. Puel has the call, not you or me, but I think my position makes sense, and not just bc we are performing so well -- we also need to evaluate Dragovic under Premier League conditions and make a decision, as the option to buy is an asset. To be clear, I think giving Wes back is starting job is also defensible, I just believe it to be rooted in sentimentality and loyalty, two things I usually appreciate, but in this case it doesn't cost us or Wes much to give Dragovic a run of games. But I agree we still need to see how this plays out before deciding either is the starter going forward.

 

I said I have no issue with Wes coming back into the team on the back of his own performances this year, not that he should. As you say Puel has that decision and if he decides to gives Drag an extended run I'm fine with that. I just have an issue with again attempting to write off Morgan, or making out we've been much different with Drag in the team.

[HighPeakFox]

In conclusion, may I suggest that we have a good problem now at centre back? 

[StriderHiryu]

21 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

In conclusion, may I suggest that we have a good problem now at centre back? 

Yes! Got to be the first time in ages where we are in a transfer window, but not bothered about bringing players in. We have a good squad, playing well and on an upward trajectory. 

 

Good times!

[ARM1968]

Summer buy for me. Literally no business sense in jumping now. Loan tied up. Option to buy at end of season. No brainer. 

[Gerard]

16 hours ago, murphy said:

I dunno.  I'm not against signing him, I like him, but I don't think he is outstanding.

 

I just think that he may be a little over priced, not based on his last transfer, I'm just not sure he's a 20m Euro player.  I would have thought you could get a bit better for that price but I could be wrong.

 

I'm in the same boat as you. 

 

He doesn't seem to dominate a defence for me although he's perfectly capable. We should only be buying him if we think he improves the side and not just because we think he's half decent.

 

The forum can get a bit carried away too soon like people were demanding Shakey being offered the job immediately after a couple of good results. I was of the opinion then as I am now, lets judge them at the end of the season when we have a more informed opinion. 

Edited 18 January 2018 by Gerard

[Tuna]

I like the look of Dragovic, long term him, Maguire and a new centre back would be good for us moving forward.

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

If he continues in the same vain, happily buy him for 15m. 

[mozartfox]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Three starts actually because Wes started against Huddersfield and we looked absolutely fine defensively whilst he was on the pitch. Presumably he gets no credit for his time on the pitch.

 

Better than what? Better than beating Spurs, Burnley, Saints away, Newcastle away? Do they get struck from the record because we struggled over a congested Christmas period?

 

Well It think it's pretty absurd to suggest results are better considering 1) Wes started our most convincing win 2) two of the games were against a league one team, who actually had more shots on target than we managed. 3) The only premier league game he started was just a draw.

 

 

 

I said I have no issue with Wes coming back into the team on the back of his own performances this year, not that he should. As you say Puel has that decision and if he decides to gives Drag an extended run I'm fine with that. I just have an issue with again attempting to write off Morgan, or making out we've been much different with Drag in the team.

Wes is what?  7 years older than Drago. Morgan is approaching the time when he needs to replaced, it happens to every player without exception.

[FOXYTALK]

Gerrriiimmmmiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

Wes is what?  7 years older than Drago. Morgan is approaching the time when he needs to replaced, it happens to every player without exception.

And that's been said what each of the last 4 years? So long as he's performing a don't get the immediate clamour to rush him out of the team in favour of people who have had a few good games. We have until July to keep watching Drag, he'll get game time and we can make a decision on buying him in the summer. If he keeps stepping up to the plate like he is he could well be the long term replacement.

[hackneyfox]

17 hours ago, murphy said:

 

 

BTW you make the point yourself.  Maguire is outstanding and the same money.

 

All I'm saying is that he seems a tad over priced.   I certainly won't complain if we sign him but is there better around for that price or a little bit more?  Gibson £25m?

Maguire would cost a lot more than £17m in the current market.

[KingsX]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 02:12, Father Ted said:

such a civilised defender.

 

[Koke]

Morgan is 34 next week. As great as he's been for us I don't know why people are eager for him to carry on for us. He's older and more injury prone. Surely it's better to bed in Dragovic this season to see if he's any good. 

[vanity]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

Three starts actually because Wes started against Huddersfield and we looked absolutely fine defensively whilst he was on the pitch. Presumably he gets no credit for his time on the pitch.

 

Better than what? Better than beating Spurs, Burnley, Saints away, Newcastle away? Do they get struck from the record because we struggled over a congested Christmas period?

 

Well It think it's pretty absurd to suggest results are better considering 1) Wes started our most convincing win 2) two of the games were against a league one team, who actually had more shots on target than we managed. 3) The only premier league game he started was just a draw.

 

 

 

I said I have no issue with Wes coming back into the team on the back of his own performances this year, not that he should. As you say Puel has that decision and if he decides to gives Drag an extended run I'm fine with that. I just have an issue with again attempting to write off Morgan, or making out we've been much different with Drag in the team.

Of course Dragovic gets credit for Huddersfield, he played starter's minutes, let's not get silly.

 

Better as in we give up fewer goals. It's just math. If it changes, we re-evaluate. But right now, Dragovic gets a good run in until Puel can decide if we are better with him in the side. Which I think you agree with, even if you don't agree we are doing better with Dragovic.

 

I don't want to write off Morgan as a contributor, not at all. But I can't pretend we haven't been keeping clean sheets with Dragovic the last four games, or that we allow fewer goals with Dragovic at CB so far.