Your last Pint?

[goody2028]

Almost £15 for 2 Staropramens yesterday in Boxpark Wembley. Had to be expected that close to the ground. 

[slymunn]

Had to try this when I saw it at the liquorice festival today.

Edited 9 July 2023 by slymunn

[Lako42]

15 hours ago, slymunn said:

Had to try this when I saw it at the liquorice festival today.

That sounds horrible 

[Finnegan]

So which of you lot have taken a "group of Leicester lads" in to the King's Arms in Horsforth for the pub quiz? 

[KingsX]

We just spent the weekend at Voodoo Brewery in rural Pennsylvania at their Good Vibes festival.

 

Sampled 70 top brews, mostly imperial stouts (a few IPAs and sours) from all over the country.  Ounce-and-a-half pours, and I still needed the hotel shuttle.

 

It’s beer speed-dating, not establishing meaningful relationships, but I enjoy festivals enough to hit two or three each summer.  Love finding great brews which aren’t usually available within 1,000 miles, even if I may never drink them again.

 

Are festivals part of UK beer culture?

[CosbehFox]

12 hours ago, KingsX said:

We just spent the weekend at Voodoo Brewery in rural Pennsylvania at their Good Vibes festival.

 

Sampled 70 top brews, mostly imperial stouts (a few IPAs and sours) from all over the country.  Ounce-and-a-half pours, and I still needed the hotel shuttle.

 

It’s beer speed-dating, not establishing meaningful relationships, but I enjoy festivals enough to hit two or three each summer.  Love finding great brews which aren’t usually available within 1,000 miles, even if I may never drink them again.

 

Are festivals part of UK beer culture?

To an extent. 
 

Used to be the CAMRA, cask ale domain but when craft beer boomed, the small breweries pitched together and have done some great events. I went to Beavertown day before we played Arsenal in 2016 (and they sold out to Heineken) and Cloudwater’s Festival in Manchester 2018. 
 

Don’t see many of them as much as you did pre COVID. Small craft breweries have struggled a lot this year with some big closures. In the UK ‘market’, it’s better to stay small and humble.
 

There’s a production point where you need to chase a bit and it’s not possible with major capital (Heineken have no issue buying out these brands if they get their name big enough). 

Edited 11 July 2023 by CosbehFox

[Finnegan]

12 hours ago, KingsX said:

Are festivals part of UK beer culture?

 

They tend to be fairly small local things but yeah beer festivals happen here. 

 

I went to Leicester beer festival a couple years ago hosted at the Haymarket. Was alright. 

[Lako42]

Some nice brews in the Kirkstall brewery after the test. 

 

Can't remember the names because I'd already had too many in the ground

[Bordersfox]

15 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

To an extent. 
 

Used to be the CAMRA, cask ale domain but when craft beer boomed, the small breweries pitched together and have done some great events. I went to Beavertown day before we played Arsenal in 2016 (and they sold out to Heineken) and Cloudwater’s Festival in Manchester 2018. 
 

Don’t see many of them as much as you did pre COVID. Small craft breweries have struggled a lot this year with some big closures. In the UK ‘market’, it’s better to stay small and humble.
 

There’s a production point where you need to chase a bit and it’s not possible with major capital (Heineken have no issue buying out these brands if they get their name big enough). 

Being small in the current market is actually very difficult as well.  The issue being vastly increased energy costs, ingredient costs haulage costs, packaging costs -you name a cost it's probably doubled, tripled or more.  But prices per L of beer are static, or reducing.  Brexit, of course, hasn't helped as we did have a thriving export market prior to that.  

 

Not to mention that most breweries capitalisation had been utterly destroyed by two years of uncertainty, lockdowns etc and many having bounceback (lolz, bounceback) loans now kicking in.  Cash at bank?  Not any more.  

 

So there is some benefit to being bigger because if you're making 1p per litre and producing a hundred thousand litres a month you might just make enough to get by.  If you're producing say ten thousand litres a month (which is roughly where I am) you're fvcked.  

 

But overall it's a sh1tshow big or small. inevitable with costs running out of control and a contracting market.  

 

Plenty of small craftys have gone with more to follow, it's just less publicised than some of the bigger ones, obviously as they are of more interest to more people.  

 

Sorry rant over 😬

[CosbehFox]

17 minutes ago, Bordersfox said:

Being small in the current market is actually very difficult as well.  The issue being vastly increased energy costs, ingredient costs haulage costs, packaging costs -you name a cost it's probably doubled, tripled or more.  But prices per L of beer are static, or reducing.  Brexit, of course, hasn't helped as we did have a thriving export market prior to that.  

 

Not to mention that most breweries capitalisation had been utterly destroyed by two years of uncertainty, lockdowns etc and many having bounceback (lolz, bounceback) loans now kicking in.  Cash at bank?  Not any more.  

 

So there is some benefit to being bigger because if you're making 1p per litre and producing a hundred thousand litres a month you might just make enough to get by.  If you're producing say ten thousand litres a month (which is roughly where I am) you're fvcked.  

 

But overall it's a sh1tshow big or small. inevitable with costs running out of control and a contracting market.  

 

Plenty of small craftys have gone with more to follow, it's just less publicised than some of the bigger ones, obviously as they are of more interest to more people.  

 

Sorry rant over 😬

Not denying it is and happy to be educated. I just look at places like Mill Hill and Braybrooke in Leics what are doing a decent job keeping local pubs  served and answering online demand. Yet plenty of the 'middle' players like Wild Beer and Kelham Island went. 

[Bordersfox]

18 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Not denying it is and happy to be educated. I just look at places like Mill Hill and Braybrooke in Leics what are doing a decent job keeping local pubs  served and answering online demand. Yet plenty of the 'middle' players like Wild Beer and Kelham Island went. 

Super variable really as to loads of factors, tap rooms are keeping many afloat and local markets if available are essential, of course.  I think the key to many surviving will be having their own outlet they can put beer through and cutting out the middle man.    Location is key I think, the more beer you can sell directly the better you are equipped to survive.  I'd you're small and can sell most beer directly you should be okay. 

 

Particularly if you're not producing beers that are extremely expensive to manufacture because of hopping levels.  I may be wrong but I'm guessing those breweries you mention are producing more balanced and less Verdantesque type beers.  Importing American hops is expensive and most of us are on forward hop contracts with serious financial penalties for failure to draw those hops down on time.  And oddly enough huge American corporations like Yakima don't give a toss if you couldn't brew at capacity for the best part of 18 months because of lockdowns. Again, smaller breweries like those you mention probably haven't got that to worry about.  My current hop storage penalty fees are more per month than my building rent.  Absolute madness.  

 

 

Not that any of this this provides guarantees, Unity for example went pop recently and they had a busy tap room and were pretty small and their beers weren't that hoppy. They even crowd funded. 

 

Wild Beer were a basket case and a prime example of why Crowd Funding is the absolute wild west of finance.   Raised about a million and then when into liquidation.  

 

Also don't underestimate how heavily family/privately funded some breweries are.  Particularly newer ones. As it became a cool industry to be part of we had the rich kids coming in in a big way and splashing vast amounts of money on shiny new breweries.  Some of these people are great friends and decent human beings by the way and until Brexit and COVID there was space in the market for all.  These may well survive by virtue purely of pumping more personal money in until things settle down, in fact I know that's how some are surviving.  

 

We'll see but overall there are challenges facing most size of brewery and it'll be a case of those who can or are willing to hang on in making hay once things improve.

 

We'll be closed down by the end of the year.  After ten years it's not easy to take but we just can't go on busting our balls for basically break even, and using savings to pay the mortgage.  That's after having a record year in 2019.   Unlike the Murphy's I am bitter. 

[Bordersfox]

Also I apologise for ruining this light hearted thread about the beer people are drinking, which I thoroughly enjoy... Carry on! 

 

My last 'pint' was a bottle of Rodenbach Alexander. Not wasn't half bad. N

[SkidsFox]

9 minutes ago, Bordersfox said:

Super variable really as to loads of factors, tap rooms are keeping many afloat and local markets if available are essential, of course.  I think the key to many surviving will be having their own outlet they can put beer through and cutting out the middle man.    Location is key I think, the more beer you can sell directly the better you are equipped to survive.  I'd you're small and can sell most beer directly you should be okay. 

 

Particularly if you're not producing beers that are extremely expensive to manufacture because of hopping levels.  I may be wrong but I'm guessing those breweries you mention are producing more balanced and less Verdantesque type beers.  Importing American hops is expensive and most of us are on forward hop contracts with serious financial penalties for failure to draw those hops down on time.  And oddly enough huge American corporations like Yakima don't give a toss if you couldn't brew at capacity for the best part of 18 months because of lockdowns. Again, smaller breweries like those you mention probably haven't got that to worry about.  My current hop storage penalty fees are more per month than my building rent.  Absolute madness.  

 

 

Not that any of this this provides guarantees, Unity for example went pop recently and they had a busy tap room and were pretty small and their beers weren't that hoppy. They even crowd funded. 

 

Wild Beer were a basket case and a prime example of why Crowd Funding is the absolute wild west of finance.   Raised about a million and then when into liquidation.  

 

Also don't underestimate how heavily family/privately funded some breweries are.  Particularly newer ones. As it became a cool industry to be part of we had the rich kids coming in in a big way and splashing vast amounts of money on shiny new breweries.  Some of these people are great friends and decent human beings by the way and until Brexit and COVID there was space in the market for all.  These may well survive by virtue purely of pumping more personal money in until things settle down, in fact I know that's how some are surviving.  

 

We'll see but overall there are challenges facing most size of brewery and it'll be a case of those who can or are willing to hang on in making hay once things improve.

 

We'll be closed down by the end of the year.  After ten years it's not easy to take but we just can't go on busting our balls for basically break even, and using savings to pay the mortgage.  That's after having a record year in 2019.   Unlike the Murphy's I am bitter. 

Sorry to hear that. Is there no way to set up an extra income stream, perhaps by hosting experience days and getting people to pay and perform certain tasks? Probably various health&safety and licensing laws make that difficult to set up...  hope you can find a solution.

[Bordersfox]

1 minute ago, SkidsFox said:

Sorry to hear that. Is there no way to set up an extra income stream, perhaps by hosting experience days and getting people to pay and perform certain tasks? Probably various health&safety and licensing laws make that difficult to set up...  hope you can find a solution.

Thanks mate.  Tbh both my wife and I have had enough.  She in particular.  It does take its toll on your mental health and marriage and those things are more important. 

[SkidsFox]

Just now, Bordersfox said:

Thanks mate.  Tbh both my wife and I have had enough.  She in particular.  It does take its toll on your mental health and marriage and those things are more important. 

Get 100% where you're coming from. My wife and I felt the same when our business folded after 8 years. Hope the process goes well, and your accountant makes sure you can exit without having any burdens hanging around.

[Bordersfox]

2 minutes ago, SkidsFox said:

Get 100% where you're coming from. My wife and I felt the same when our business folded after 8 years. Hope the process goes well, and your accountant makes sure you can exit without having any burdens hanging around.

Sorry to hear you've been through the same.  Yeah, it's a controlled/managed exit rather than a calamitous one but definitely not what we thought we'd be doing at the end of 2019 which was looking to sell probably in another 5-10 years.  It's hard isn't it, there is a lot of emotional attachment and to see it all go for basically nothing is not easy.  

 

Fortunately my wife was an insolvency practitioner before we set it up (I know 😂) and she's already back in work and she knows what she is doing!  At least she's in a boom industry currently.  Insolvencies up 120% or something crazy in the last year.  

[SemperEadem]

2 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

Not denying it is and happy to be educated. I just look at places like Mill Hill and Braybrooke in Leics what are doing a decent job keeping local pubs  served and answering online demand. Yet plenty of the 'middle' players like Wild Beer and Kelham Island went. 

Believe these got saved in the end.

[matty2702]

Any recommendations of good craft beer bars/pubs in Brighton would be appreciated 👍🏻

[CosbehFox]

Back from 2018, my list has in the centre of Brighton:- 

 

Evening star 

craft beer co. 
Brighton bierhouse 

East street Tap 

Prince Albert 

north Laine 

Brighton Beer Dispensary - this was excellent 

The Pond

 

Hove had Bison Beer, The Brunswick and The Urchin. 
 

Some may closed down since. Christ five years ago. 
 

Edit FFS BB Dispensary is closed down 

Edited 11 July 2023 by CosbehFox

[SemperEadem]

Pre Otley run nerves kicking in.

[Bordersfox]

2 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Pre Otley run nerves kicking in.

Absolute belter of a crawl that mate.  Did it several times at uni and a couple of times more recently.  Always ends in an absolutely catastrophic shambles of the best kind.  I recall one attempt someone vomited in about the fourth pub - absolutely pathetic.  

[SemperEadem]

1 minute ago, Bordersfox said:

Absolute belter of a crawl that mate.  Did it several times at uni and a couple of times more recently.  Always ends in an absolutely catastrophic shambles of the best kind.  I recall one attempt someone vomited in about the fourth pub - absolutely pathetic.  

19 of us going over to Leeds. I did it before about 6 years ago and just refused to go in the last pub, proper heads fell off moment. Was also likely a better drinker then than I am now too.

Those last few pubs are like the walking dead by the end.

[Bordersfox]

10 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

19 of us going over to Leeds. I did it before about 6 years ago and just refused to go in the last pub, proper heads fell off moment. Was also likely a better drinker then than I am now too.

Those last few pubs are like the walking dead by the end.

Don't think I've ever truly completed it, I'm sure by the end I've always had to move to shorts just because of the sheer volume of beer.  Thing is I can't really ever remember how it ends... 

[SemperEadem]

1 minute ago, Bordersfox said:

Don't think I've ever truly completed it, I'm sure by the end I've always had to move to shorts just because of the sheer volume of beer.  Thing is I can't really ever remember how it ends... 

Oh yeah 14 pints I wouldn’t stand a chance. Was boshing anything back towards the end just to be able to keep moving on.

[Manini]

1 minute ago, Bordersfox said:

Don't think I've ever truly completed it, I'm sure by the end I've always had to move to shorts just because of the sheer volume of beer.  Thing is I can't really ever remember how it ends... 

I swear nobody actually knows the “proper” route anyway. Some say that you need to finish on Fenton, Strawbs and then Dry Dock but in my opinion no man (or woman) should ever have to endure Strawbs. I’m not even certain it’s still there! It’s usually get to Library and then everyone for themselves and I think that’s a good effort getting there anyway. 
 

All the best @SemperEadem, the equivalent of a boozing iron man in my opinion.