Puel 'Facing the sack' - reports

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, Ricey said:

This is annoying me too. Yes we are 7th. That's a good position, but people are using it as an argument to end to the discussion. By the end of today we could be 9th and over the next few weeks we will no doubt float around between 7th and 13th.

Watford need to win by 3 goals to catch up with us on goal difference and they are 3 points behind us

 

We are probably 7th/8th by the end of today

[Babylon]

7th place after round 21 (not all games played)...

 

2018-2019 31pts

2017-2018 34pts

2016-2017 33pts

2015-2016 32pts

2014-2015 33pts

2013-2014 37pts  (Man U)

2012-2013 33pts

2011-2012 35pts (Liverpool)

2010-2011 30pts

2009-2010 36pts (Liverpool)

2008-2009 30pts

 

Now whilst it might be a point or two lower than normal, it's in the ball park. When you're talking about the fact a missed pen against Cardiff cost us having the highest points total for 7th at this stage for 5 years. Especially when you consider the top 5 have way more points than usual at this stage.

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

 He's having to deal with expensive players of a more attacking nature being a total bust in Silva, Slim, Musa, Kapustka, Iheanacho, Silva.

So bad we bought him twice?  

[Ricey]

38 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Watford need to win by 3 goals to catch up with us on goal difference and they are 3 points behind us

 

We are probably 7th/8th by the end of today

...which is why I said "could".

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, Rusko187 said:

It's not pretty, it's a grind, it's often through luck we have got results.. 

But by the same logic you can say it's often bad luck where we haven't got results. You can say "oh, Chelsea hit the bar and Aguero skied one from six yards, lucky we took 6 points rather than 2" but for every example like that there's a "Vardy had a tap in cleared off the line vs Burnley and Iheanacho missed a 1v1 at Fulham, we were unlucky to only take 2 points rather than 6 for those games". Or is it poor finishing when we do it, but good luck when others do it against us?

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, Ricey said:

...which is why I said "could".

Yeah, but, barely

[Rusko187]

1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

But by the same logic you can say it's often bad luck where we haven't got results. You can say "oh, Chelsea hit the bar and Aguero skied one from six yards, lucky we took 6 points rather than 2" but for every example like that there's a "Vardy had a tap in cleared off the line vs Burnley and Iheanacho missed a 1v1 at Fulham, we were unlucky to only take 2 points rather than 6 for those games". Or is it poor finishing when we do it, but good luck when others do it against us?

Perhaps it's the way I look at games and how I judge performances, I won't celebrate winning a penalty until it's buried in the back of the net but I do look at facts. Man City we deserved the win and were more effective. Chelsea didn't take their chances and we won, but we were far from the clear winners.

Against Cardiff we failed to score or dominate and Everton... well clearly both teams had been on the pop the night before, we just took our chances.

[Buce]

12 hours ago, Bunyip said:

As a concierge of the Puel out mob, I hereby declare that I can't argue with the points garnered over the Christmas period and I'm very happy to say that it looks like I was wrong.   

 

A caretaker?

 

Are you sure?

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

12 hours ago, Bunyip said:

As a concierge of the Puel out mob, I hereby declare that I can't argue with the points garnered over the Christmas period and I'm very happy to say that it looks like I was wrong.   

Thats a respectable about face, Bunyip.

 

I remember at the start of the season I made a promise to include a quote of yours at the foot of posts predicting Puel's failure should we have a decent season

 

We're getting dangerously close to that reality

 

Dont suppose you can remember what it was?

[Bunyip]

27 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Thats a respectable about face, Bunyip.

 

I remember at the start of the season I made a promise to include a quote of yours at the foot of posts predicting Puel's failure should we have a decent season

 

We're getting dangerously close to that reality

 

Dont suppose you can remember what it was?

I can't even remember what I said yesterday and I've got more faces than Big Ben, So don't be surprised if I turn as quick as an old bottle of Milk if it swings the other way. The thing is I have a good grip of perspective and never for one moment take anything on here seriously. It's a distraction a bagatelle a trifle, in which I indulge my warped sense of humour, nothing more nothing less. Having said that I do love my club and it plays a big part in my life and as such, I really enjoy this site and all who post on it. Happy new year to you all, and especially to you alluverderfloor.

Edited 2 January 2019 by Bunyip

[fuchsntf]

9 minutes ago, Rusko187 said:

Perhaps it's the way I look at games and how I judge performances, I won't celebrate winning a penalty until it's buried in the back of the net but I do look at facts. Man City we deserved the win and were more effective. Chelsea didn't take their chances and we won, but we were far from the clear winners.

Against Cardiff we failed to score or dominate and Everton... well clearly both teams had been on the pop the night before, we just took our chances.

..........because that's football...simples..!!

 

We accept we are middle of the table team....gracefully....ambition is a positive thing,but gets in the way of reality...

We can all point to should of and could ofs....but season in season out this guy ... gets in the way....

I reckon when we lost to cardiff,the pain through the fan-base was massive.....but the real-old-codgers....after swearing through their festive mince-pies,

Just knew....another day and moment is always just around the corner......We just love losing the easy games....134+ years of funny laughable painstaking

Heart-wrenching tradition!!!    Luv...it!!!!

[Bunyip]

27 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

A caretaker?

 

Are you sure?

Yes, a caretaker manager we badly need one.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

18 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

I can't even remember what I said yesterday and I've got more faces than Big Ben, So don't be surprised if I turn as quick as an old bottle of Milk if it swings the other way. The thing is I have a good grip of perspective and never for one moment take anything on here seriously. It's a distraction a bagatelle a trifle, in which I indulge my warped sense of humour, nothing more nothing less. Having said that I do love my club and it plays a big part in my life and as such, I really enjoy this site and all who post on it. Happy new year to you all, and especially to you alluverderfloor.

Same to you Bunyip

[Captain...]

27 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

But by the same logic you can say it's often bad luck where we haven't got results. You can say "oh, Chelsea hit the bar and Aguero skied one from six yards, lucky we took 6 points rather than 2" but for every example like that there's a "Vardy had a tap in cleared off the line vs Burnley and Iheanacho missed a 1v1 at Fulham, we were unlucky to only take 2 points rather than 6 for those games". Or is it poor finishing when we do it, but good luck when others do it against us?

Whilst I do agree you don’t and can’t expect a striker to score with every chance against Burnley, Fulham, Cardiff we didn’t create enough good chances and we offered up too many good chances for the opposition. It is the same every time we play 4231 and try to dominate the game with possession based passing football. 

 

We we are so slow in possession that the defence is set and so poor in possession we gift the opposition chances in good positions. We did it week after week with no attempt from Puel to correct the underlying flaw in his approach. Persisting with Ndidi in the 4231 is madness, seeing the same mistakes every game is what makes me think Puel isn’t up to it. Ndidi giving the ball away, Schmeichel booting the ball over Chilwell’s head, taking 15 sideways passes before knocking it back to Schmeichel or Morgan to launch it forwards, pointless crosses into Vardy, sitting back on the edge of the area while someone has a pop at goal under no pressure. It’s the same thing every week. We find a formation that deals with Chelsea and Man City and switch it back to drab 4231 dropping Hamza for Cardiff and promptly go back to the same mistakes that have cost us so many points against weaker teams.

 

The problem comes down to this, Puel’s 4231 possession based passing football exposes every weakness our players have; composure, passing, intelligence and minimises their strengths; speed, instinct, graft. I don’t blame Puel for believing he can mould these players into Puel-ballers but it has been a year now and Ndidi, Morgan, Schmeichel, Vardy, Albrighton are never going to be those players and thrive playing this football.

 

I don’t want Puel to be sacked, I want him to succeed, but I don’t see it happening without spending a ton of money on amazing players or a significant change in approach. This 433 with 9 points from 9 is a good start, but if we go back to 4231 vs Southampton then I will despair.

[Dames]

I'm very torn at the moment about Puel.

 

7th in the League and wins against Man City, Chelsea and Everton on paper makes it look as if everything is going really well and there are no issues. I can also see the point of a lot of people using this as a defence for Puel because as 'little' Leicester we shouldn't be expecting more than this. Whilst I agree in principle that currently 7th position is a great position to be in and we shouldn't 'expect' to be in that position but I feel with how the season is panning out and how some of the other teams are massively under performing too it feels like there has been an opportunity to push on beyond 7th and aim higher. As a fan i'm hopeful and optimistic and would love to see the team push on and go as high as they can go because on paper the potential really is there. At the minute however I can't help but feel that there has been a series of missed opportunities this season to really push on and it does leave me feeling slightly disappointed.

 

As for the positives Puel has shifted out some of the deadwood that was brought in and has replaced them with some really exciting players - how much of this completely is down to him, I don't know. However he can probably take full credit for Ricardo who has been our signing of the season. There has been a noticable improvement on the signings made under his watch however with the focus on youth and potential.

 

There is a long term vision in place that we didn't have before, at least not since Pearson. Youth is being given a chance and players like Chilwell and Hamza have come on massively. Maddison is developing pretty well and Gray is showing some signs of improvement.

 

League position is another positive, can't really complain too much about being 7th just over the halfway stage in the season.

 

The negatives for Puel mainly focus around the style of play and the tactical decisions.

 

The style of play for me personally is too negative. He runs Mourinho very close for the biggest safety first manager in the Prem this year. Even against opposition that come to defend against us he sets us up with 2 holding midfielders and 1 striker. The style of play is too patient and too negative. Too often we look static and there is no forward movement because the players seem afraid to take the chance, more often than not the safest option is taken when we have the ball and how many times this season have we seen the players get to the edge of the opposition 18 yard box only to pass the ball all the way back to Kasper giving the other team a chance to breathe and reset? I'm not asking we counter attack against every team because it won't work against every team but a little more intensity and putting them under a little more pressure won't hurt? We seem to give these teams an out every single time, they won't waste as much energy against us because we aren't putting them under pressure. All they have to do is hold their line and we'll pass it backwards and give them a breather. Also this just makes us horrible to watch because there is no intent to commit forwards and attack properly - the game plan always appears to be keep it tight and nick it, even against teams that come to defend. Its been a long time since we really blew a team away with an attacking performance and the team certainly has the attacking talent to do that.

 

Tactically until recently he has been very rigid with his belief in the 4231 system. He seems to have stumbled on a 433 that works against teams that come to attack but I believe that this is only successful because of the players natural inclinations towards counter attacking football. When he reverts to the 4231 system there is no consistency to the 4 options at the front, he's always chopping and changing even if there has been injuries or not and hasn't given them time to gel and find a rhythm in this new system. The reason why Mahrez, Drinkwater and Vardy played so well together is because they were given time to get used to each other on the pitch. A little consistency with team selections goes a long way in terms of giving players belief and also learning each others strengths.

 

I'm not going to use the transfer situation as a stick to beat him with. I will say however that we are short of attacking quality in depth and also our CM options are too similar to each other and we are desperate for a player that can drive forwards from CM. I don't know what the situation is with transfers but i'm hoping Puel recognises this and has the sense to push forwards with adding players to these areas.

 

I feel that if he just dropped the safety first approach and really let the team attack teams that come to defend the situation wouldnt be as bad as it is now. People are frustrated because we aren't getting the best results against those teams and you can accept defeat a lot easier if the team really had a go against these teams. At the minute we just seem too scared of losing ourselves to really commit and thats what is really winding people up, its a real sense of a missed opportunity because you will always be left wondering 'what if we just attacked them?'

 

He's earned until the end of the season at least. I hope he does something this window and brings in some quality in the positions that we need. I can just about understand the safety first approach if you are worried that you don't have the players but now he has the chance to add to the squad and push on for a good finish.

 

 

[Rusko187]

29 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Whilst I do agree you don’t and can’t expect a striker to score with every chance against Burnley, Fulham, Cardiff we didn’t create enough good chances and we offered up too many good chances for the opposition. It is the same every time we play 4231 and try to dominate the game with possession based passing football. 

 

We we are so slow in possession that the defence is set and so poor in possession we gift the opposition chances in good positions. We did it week after week with no attempt from Puel to correct the underlying flaw in his approach. Persisting with Ndidi in the 4231 is madness, seeing the same mistakes every game is what makes me think Puel isn’t up to it. Ndidi giving the ball away, Schmeichel booting the ball over Chilwell’s head, taking 15 sideways passes before knocking it back to Schmeichel or Morgan to launch it forwards, pointless crosses into Vardy, sitting back on the edge of the area while someone has a pop at goal under no pressure. It’s the same thing every week. We find a formation that deals with Chelsea and Man City and switch it back to drab 4231 dropping Hamza for Cardiff and promptly go back to the same mistakes that have cost us so many points against weaker teams.

 

The problem comes down to this, Puel’s 4231 possession based passing football exposes every weakness our players have; composure, passing, intelligence and minimises their strengths; speed, instinct, graft. I don’t blame Puel for believing he can mould these players into Puel-ballers but it has been a year now and Ndidi, Morgan, Schmeichel, Vardy, Albrighton are never going to be those players and thrive playing this football.

 

I don’t want Puel to be sacked, I want him to succeed, but I don’t see it happening without spending a ton of money on amazing players or a significant change in approach. This 433 with 9 points from 9 is a good start, but if we go back to 4231 vs Southampton then I will despair.

This is exactly my view, if he recognises 4-2-3-1 doesn't work and changes his approach then that's more than enough evidence to me that shows he can adapt and perhaps has a future.

 

Time will tell for me, if he reverts back to 4-2-3-1 against than it suggests he's arrogant and it's very much "my way or the highway", continue with the winning formula and I will be happy and am sure a lot others will be too. That simple!

[Babylon]

52 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Whilst I do agree you don’t and can’t expect a striker to score with every chance against Burnley, Fulham, Cardiff we didn’t create enough good chances and we offered up too many good chances for the opposition.

51 shots at goal in those three games, including a missed pen and some absolute sitters missed. Whilst we absolutely have a long way to go in terms of making the system work like clock work against those teams. There are others out there not even putting in those numbers.

 

52 minutes ago, Captain... said:

We we are so slow in possession that the defence is set and so poor in possession we gift the opposition chances in good positions.

We've been conceding screamers and not much else of late, we've got the fifth best defence in the league and have only conceded two more than Spurs. We aren't gifting the opposition that many easy chances any more. The problem looks to have been rectified, compared to last season or early season. Last season we had about the fourth or fifth worst defence.

 

52 minutes ago, Captain... said:

We find a formation that deals with Chelsea and Man City and switch it back to drab 4231 dropping Hamza for Cardiff and promptly go back to the same mistakes that have cost us so many points against weaker teams.

Why do people keep saying this FFS, the 433 works against teams who want to attack us. Why do people think three CDM's is going to somehow create more shots against teams who only intend to defend?

 

52 minutes ago, Captain... said:

The problem comes down to this, Puel’s 4231 possession based passing football exposes every weakness our players have; composure, passing, intelligence and minimises their strengths; speed, instinct, graft. I don’t blame Puel for believing he can mould these players into Puel-ballers but it has been a year now and Ndidi, Morgan, Schmeichel, Vardy, Albrighton are never going to be those players and thrive playing this football.

So your suggestion is what? Because them playing counter football wasn't working before Puel even arrived. We cannot rely on a counter against deep sitting teams with no intention of attacking.

 

I'd rather have a manager who has faith in what he's try to do, than someone who says "well Danny Simpson and Okazaki can't kick the ball stright, so I'll plow on playing hustle and bustle football rather than going out and buying Ricardo and Maddison who are more in line with my long term plan".

 

Edited 2 January 2019 by Babylon

[lifted*fox]

[Alf Bentley]

15 hours ago, MattP said:

I classed myself as this after Man City, I was really annoyed but since then his tactics have been absolutely spot on and I've been delighted, we've beaten Everton, Chelsea and Man City and lost to Cardiff which could easily have gone the other way.

 

His switch to three in central midfield was something no one on here suggested and it's been brilliant, even bringing through Hamza who now looks to me a better option than Mendy or Ndidi given the choice.

 

What is really annoying is now those who wanted him out saying "it's the players" when we win but "it's the manager" when we lose - pathetic argument and echoes the morons saying the same about Pearson/Cambiasso.

 

He makes mistakes, which manager doesn't? - but there is nothing better out there at the minute and he's bringing the youth players into a team that wins us matches. 

 

I'm happy to give him some time to build this team. He has ideas that I like, Ricardo and Chilwell are looking superb and I genuinely think we are only a couple of players away from a very good team.

 

We are also 7th. I think people need to reflect on that. 7th best team in the country. 

 

 

It's the continuous signs of progress that would make it madness to ditch Puel at this stage. If we reach autumn 2019 and are stagnating or sliding back, there might be a case, but there's none at the moment.

 

....unless you're someone who prioritises immediate exciting football over long-term progress and success and you're willing to risk relegation in exchange for ultra-attacking football.

 

Our football has been dull and frustrating at times, particularly against bottom-half teams that set out to defend, as we lack creativity in tight spaces (Maddison the main exception to this). But that's because we're halfway through rebuilding both personnel and style - 1 or 2 new creative and attacking players will be on Claude's agenda in the summer, if not January, I'm sure.

 

Our defence has improved, as has our work in possession (though 1st half yesterday wasn't a great example!) and we're still excellent at counter-attacking.

 

You're right to highlight Ricardo and Chilwell. Even last season, the defensive side of Chilwell's game and his team awareness could be erratic, yet he's matured amazingly and become much more consistent - a definite contender for first-choice England left back / wing back. From the start, Ricardo was good overlapping but in his early months his defensive work was erratic. He's really upped his game in that regard. Not only that, he's also learned to come inside to great effect when we're moving forward - now connecting well with the midfield and with Vardy. So, 2 players who have massively improved in recent months....not to mention Choudhury, who's progressed from promising youth player to credible 1st team contender (though it's only been a few games, so he might have blips yet).

 

I do wonder if some of the negativity about Puel stems from the "TV football generation" expecting entertainment like from a soap opera? Let's face it, Claude's TV interviews are as dull as it gets, so if you're expecting a manager to be charming (like Claudio), a personable bloke (like Shaky) or articulate (like O'Neill), you're going to be disappointed. NP was Marmite in this regard - I found his combative, eccentric media style hilarious, but I know it wound some people up. Anyway, progress on the pitch must always outweigh "character" in TV interviews, surely?!

 

We still have well-identified failings (creativity against defensive teams, attacking options) - but are challenging for Europe and competitive in cups despite that. If we can keep most of this squad together, improve existing players more (and that's already happening) and bring in a couple more creative/attacking options, we could be challenging for the top 6 next season....

 

We're ahead of schedule, as far as I'm concerned. Before the season started, I'd have been happy to have consolidated in about 12th and had slight fears that we could be drawn into the relegation struggle. I think some people underestimate the scale of the rebuilding job that was required due to major players moving on, others aging or being unsuited to playing a new style - and previous regimes making poor signings. Puel has overseen the arrival or improvement of Ricardo, Chilwell, Evans, Soyuncu, Benkovic, Ward, Choudhury, Mendy, Madison, all good or promising players....hell, there have even been signs of improvement in Gray, though he's been rubbish again recently!

 

Every manager has players who fail (Iheanacho, Silva, Ghezzal......so far). Should he have bought/kept a Plan B striker? Maybe, but he probably thought Iheanacho was Plan B - and buying another top striker would've been an expensive risk, so maybe not worth gambling on some last-minute option (personally I'd have kept Ulloa as a bench option, despite his age, given Slimani's reported demands for regular 1st team football).

 

I was disappointed when I saw the team sheet for the Man City League Cup match, but the team selected actually played pretty well - and Claude can't be blamed for the rubbish penalties.

 

Unless we somehow unearth a new creative signing in this transfer window, we'll have more matches like Cardiff, I suspect - matches where Claude switches away from the 3-man midfield in an attempt to unlock stubborn defences, but fails to deliver goals or exciting football. As fans, we need to be patient about that.....the future looks bright to me, and we'd be mad to jeopardise that by ditching Puel any time soon.

[worthosoriginals]

1 hour ago, Bunyip said:

I can't even remember what I said yesterday and I've got more faces than Big Ben, So don't be surprised if I turn as quick as an old bottle of Milk if it swings the other way. The thing is I have a good grip of perspective and never for one moment take anything on here seriously. It's a distraction a bagatelle a trifle, in which I indulge my warped sense of humour, nothing more nothing less. Having said that I do love my club and it plays a big part in my life and as such, I really enjoy this site and all who post on it. Happy new year to you all, and especially to you alluverderfloor.

happy New year wabbit.

[l444ry]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

Do you think we actually reverted to a different style? The only difference was again an opposition that won't let us counter, they keep plenty back and play deep.

 

Yes, we are absolutely not good enough against those sorts of teams. But that is exactly what Puel is trying to address when he says he wants us to have multiple styles of play. People seem to have deluded themselves into thinking the quick ball forward stuff against all opposition was still working, it wasn't.

 

We've not cracked it yet, but that could take some some better technical attacking players to achieve. I have my doubts the better players on their own will sort the problem, because we're not seeing a huge amount of passing and moving to create ourselves space and that's coaching. But he's done enough to be given the time to get those players in to try and solve the problem.

Even  blind man can see the 4-3-3 deeper block as opposed to the painfully slow 4-2-3-1 build up is like comparing Stork and Butter. I've been to every one of the recent games and, Cardiff apart, it was like a breath of fresh air. Even when he's adjusted things tactically the ball has been played forwards quicker. Don't know about yourself Babs but maybe TV and streams just don't show it as obviously as being at the games. I look forward to Puel keeping the system even for teams that drop deeper. It's not as if his repeated 4-2-3-1 crab style has had much success is it? 

Edited 2 January 2019 by l444ry

[Chester Dontlie]

19 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

I had no idea Kermit was in lipton ad. Disgraceful

[Bunyip]

12 minutes ago, worthosoriginals said:

happy New year wabbit.

Happy new year So wortho riginal !

[STUHILL]

I wanted to give Puel to the end of the season even before the last 4 games, but these recent results and performances wipe away any remaining doubts I had about not giving him that.

 

We are sitting in 7th, which I don't think any other manager could better with this squad. Yes, that can quickly change seeing how bunched up the teams are below, but he has to be given credit for putting us in a great position to now go on and finish 'Best of the Rest' aka 7th, come the Summer. 

 

He still makes odd decisions, but I was really impressed how he set us up tactically for the last handful of games. I think he got it wrong at Cardiff with switching to a more attacking line-up, but I don't blame him for thinking that was the way to go. Dropping Choudary was his biggest mistake and hopefully he has learned from that. 

 

I still find him totally uninspiring and his position should still be questioned in the summer if the rumours of player unrest and communication breakdowns are all true, however he should take huge credit for this Christmas period and should rightly be able to see out the rest of the season and perhaps beyond if this continues.

 

If he manages to keep us around 7th/8th and we continue to see good performances during that time, then I will most likely be changing my view on replacing him this Summer. He certainly has his flaws, but I am also well aware of many of his strengths and as long as he can get the player's to buy into it and also learn to adapt himself i.e utilise Vardy better - Then he should stay even beyond the Summer IMO. 

 

Let's accept he is doing well in this moment and support him and the team until the end of the season, and see where we are then. A lot can change from now until then, but right now, things are good and we should enjoy that and support the good work that has been done. 

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Even  blind man can see the 4-3-3 deeper block as opposed to the painfully slow 4-2-3-1 build up. 

Because we don't have the ball as much in those games. The other team comes onto us and there is space to attack if teams leave it, unlike against the smaller teams who don't.

 

There has been no change of philosophy, this is no different to what's been happening for 14 months. Vardy has continued to have a good record against the better teams and finds it harder against the smaller ones who don't attack. Hence why generally our better play has come against the better teams who we can counter.

 

Countering defensive teams does not work, it stopped working before Puel arrived and it continues to be a struggle against them now.