Players not good enough to take us forward under any manager.

[splinterdream]

The players we have are decent, the skill is playing 11 players in a system that's balanced, suits their style and keeps them motivated. I think we have had problems with recruitment, too many players competing for the same place, players not getting any game time therefore low morale and players not playing in a style that suits them which again cause lack of motivation. Some players thrive on pressure and some need to reassurance, it's all about management and adapting to what you have and i think that's where Puel is lacking. He's so stubborn.

[That_Dude]

2 hours ago, peach0000 said:

We’ve got plenty of top players, schmeichel, maguire, chilwell, Ricardo, Vardy could fit into almost any team. Then there’s the likes of ndidi and Maddison who are young and have potential. Further to that we have a proven top class creative midfielder in silva who isn’t even given a chance. 

Maybe im being overly positive but for me we’re only a player or two and manager away from properly pushing into the top 6.

We have no player who could actually fit in any of the top 6 team, bar maybe Chilwell and Ricardo, both on the bench. There is potential, good players, no doubt about that, but the bench is atrocious. Thinking that we're one push away from the top 6 is not overly optimistic but completely deluded.

[peach0000]

55 minutes ago, That_Dude said:

We have no player who could actually fit in any of the top 6 team, bar maybe Chilwell and Ricardo, both on the bench. There is potential, good players, no doubt about that, but the bench is atrocious. Thinking that we're one push away from the top 6 is not overly optimistic but completely deluded.

Almost all of the players I mentioned would go straight into the arsenal team for example, I don’t think it’s that deluded. 

[Woodsey1727]

Some of the players are decent it's just that they are playing to their strengths 

[RumbleFox]

3 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Which is why I've been Puel in from the start. 

 

I wrote a list of 21 players he inherited that were either too old, past it or 1 dimensional when Puel arrived, and he's massively reduced that list. We need to bring new players in.

I'm Puel in all the way, just hope he can ride the storm. X 

[Long Eaton Fox]

7 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Can't help but think we have a massive amount of players on the books who regardless of manager simply are not good enough. 

Morgan - So inconsistent and any other manager would be trying to retire or sell him, he's lucky Puel is so loyal to him, disgraceful to hear he ran past puel to celebrate with others for his goal, Puel is the only manager that would still be playing him week in week out. 
Simpson - Really one dimensional and his defensive solidness really is not what it used to be. 
Mendy - Great first few games and has had his moments but generally he's just average at best, him and Ndidi together just do not compliment eachother. 
Iheanacho - Too many chances now, 10 mins left, you're a CF and you're losing the game, you should be up and down the touchline making sure the manager sees you, instead he's sat on the bench in his coat without his boots tied up or pads on. Just get rid. 

Okazaki - Past it

Silva - Probably needs more chances as he's proven quality, but everytime he has played he's generally been off the pace, so unless we have a new manager with a master plan, can't see him doing much at this level. 

Fuchs - Past it, been below average when he's had a chance this season, either his passing or his defending lets him down every game he's played. 

King - Time has come. 

James - Time has come. 

Jakupovic - Waste of a wage 

 

Inconsistent players

Gray - Did well today for his goal, but can't help but wish he did it more often, shows flashes of brilliance but often just gets marked out of the game.

Chilwell - He's decent enough but massively overrated IMO, i'd take 50m for him if city offered it, his defending is OK and his attacking is OK. Very rarely does a cross connect and more often than not he turns and passes backwards. 

 

The last 2 and possibly Silva could be good under a new manager, but generally speaking I really think the problem goes deeper than this. Our bench is piss poor and many of our first team players just cannot adapt any other style of play than hoofball. 

 

 

EDIT ---------------------------------

Just to add to this post and to reflect on the last 18 months or so, here is a list of players that Puel inherited that he's had to offload whilst trying to progress the squad.

 

Huth

Wasilewski

Hamers

Musa

Slimani

Ulloa

Kapustka???

Benalouane

Zieler

Lawrence

 

Lists combined thats 20 players that have been or need to be moved on, he did not take on a small job. 

 

Agree apart from Chilwell

[Russell sprout]

3 hours ago, That_Dude said:

We have no player who could actually fit in any of the top 6 team, bar maybe Chilwell and Ricardo, both on the bench. There is potential, good players, no doubt about that, but the bench is atrocious. Thinking that we're one push away from the top 6 is not overly optimistic but completely deluded.

Chillwell

 

[st albans fox]

Claudio looked at the team and put the horse before the cart

 

Puel has been asked to do the opposite and it clearly shows ! 

[nnfox]

I completely agree. Get rid of Puel, bring in Pep, Klopp and have Sir Alex as DoF and we'd still be competing for 7th at best.

[inckley fox]

7 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Can't help but think we have a massive amount of players on the books who regardless of manager simply are not good enough. 

Morgan - So inconsistent and any other manager would be trying to retire or sell him, he's lucky Puel is so loyal to him, disgraceful to hear he ran past puel to celebrate with others for his goal, Puel is the only manager that would still be playing him week in week out. 
Simpson - Really one dimensional and his defensive solidness really is not what it used to be. 
Mendy - Great first few games and has had his moments but generally he's just average at best, him and Ndidi together just do not compliment eachother. 
Iheanacho - Too many chances now, 10 mins left, you're a CF and you're losing the game, you should be up and down the touchline making sure the manager sees you, instead he's sat on the bench in his coat without his boots tied up or pads on. Just get rid. 

Okazaki - Past it

Silva - Probably needs more chances as he's proven quality, but everytime he has played he's generally been off the pace, so unless we have a new manager with a master plan, can't see him doing much at this level. 

Fuchs - Past it, been below average when he's had a chance this season, either his passing or his defending lets him down every game he's played. 

King - Time has come. 

James - Time has come. 

Jakupovic - Waste of a wage 

 

Inconsistent players

Gray - Did well today for his goal, but can't help but wish he did it more often, shows flashes of brilliance but often just gets marked out of the game.

Chilwell - He's decent enough but massively overrated IMO, i'd take 50m for him if city offered it, his defending is OK and his attacking is OK. Very rarely does a cross connect and more often than not he turns and passes backwards. 

 

The last 2 and possibly Silva could be good under a new manager, but generally speaking I really think the problem goes deeper than this. Our bench is piss poor and many of our first team players just cannot adapt any other style of play than hoofball. 

 

 

EDIT ---------------------------------

Just to add to this post and to reflect on the last 18 months or so, here is a list of players that Puel inherited that he's had to offload whilst trying to progress the squad.

 

Huth

Wasilewski

Hamers

Musa

Slimani

Ulloa

Kapustka???

Benalouane

Zieler

Lawrence

 

Lists combined thats 20 players that have been or need to be moved on, he did not take on a small job. 

 

Wasilewski, Zieler and Lawrence all left before Puel, didn't they? And you imply that Chilwell and Gray need moving on, which might be a bit premature.

 

I take your point that it's tough reshaping a squad, of course, but I only make it 7 players that he's moved on, with a further handful exiled in Turkey or Belgium, and a further 7 or 8 who perhaps need moving on. Those numbers aren't extraordinary by PL standards.

 

Morgan was very, very poor today (which defender wasn't?) and we all know that he's about to turn 35 but if we're fair he's been a more consistent performer than the likes of Maguire in our defence this season, and our defence is one of the best 6 in the division. So I'm not sure he should be on your list, unless the reasoning is that he's coming to the end of his time here.

 

Personally I can't accept that the squad is a poor one. We regularly field 4-6 players who won the PL just 2.5 years ago and made the Champions League quarters a year later, which is a pedigree few EPL sides have at their disposal. We have one of the most respected goalkeepers - FIFA Keeper of the Year shortlisted - and one of the most respected strikers at this level, the 5th or 6th best defence (which includes two England players and a Portugal regular, and is deemed too good for three further current internationals to make the team). We can afford to discard the likes of Vicente Iborra and possibly Adrien Silva in the January window without feeling the need to replace them. We have over 50m of talent out on loan. A first team which on an average week cost over 120m. We have three of the today's most highly rated young English attacking midfielders. We had the EPL's 7th highest wage bill the season before last. 

 

While I don't believe Puel should be fired, or that we can expect to finish 6th or 7th, and while I appreciate that this has been a turbulent transitional season in which mid-table should be fine, I have to say that there's a lot of quality in that squad. It's a tad bloated, short on good ball-playing midfield anchor men, the back-up to Vardy is questionable, some players are inexperienced and, yes, there are 7 or 8 guys who need to - and in most cases will - move on. But that's nothing out of the ordinary, and we're still way ahead of teams which are or have been round-and-about mid-table - Brighton, Burnley, Bournemouth, Wolves, to name a few - in terms of options.

[Hanan96]

4 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

I made a list interestingly enough of 21 players that Puel inherited that were one dimensional, past it or not good enough. The list is massively reduced under Puel and we have players like Ricardo replacing them. 

 

We definitely need 3-5 first teamers but the bench is really poor and need to add to that aswell, that's why i've consistently been puel in, however i have to admit even i've struggled to defend him recently.

selling chilwell will made us need up to 6 which will be very difficult to do in single season unless we could spend huge like man city who ridiculously change like 11 player for 3 season straight. 

[Hanan96]

11 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

Wasilewski, Zieler and Lawrence all left before Puel, didn't they? And you imply that Chilwell and Gray need moving on, which might be a bit premature.

 

I take your point that it's tough reshaping a squad, of course, but I only make it 7 players that he's moved on, with a further handful exiled in Turkey or Belgium, and a further 7 or 8 who perhaps need moving on. Those numbers aren't extraordinary by PL standards.

 

Morgan was very, very poor today (which defender wasn't?) and we all know that he's about to turn 35 but if we're fair he's been a more consistent performer than the likes of Maguire in our defence this season, and our defence is one of the best 6 in the division. So I'm not sure he should be on your list, unless the reasoning is that he's coming to the end of his time here.

 

Personally I can't accept that the squad is a poor one. We regularly field 4-6 players who won the PL just 2.5 years ago and made the Champions League quarters a year later, which is a pedigree few EPL sides have at their disposal. We have one of the most respected goalkeepers - FIFA Keeper of the Year shortlisted - and one of the most respected strikers at this level, the 5th or 6th best defence (which includes two England players and a Portugal regular, and is deemed too good for three further current internationals to make the team). We can afford to discard the likes of Vicente Iborra and possibly Adrien Silva in the January window without feeling the need to replace them. We have over 50m of talent out on loan. A first team which on an average week cost over 120m. We have three of the today's most highly rated young English attacking midfielders. We had the EPL's 7th highest wage bill the season before last. 

 

While I don't believe Puel should be fired, or that we can expect to finish 6th or 7th, and while I appreciate that this has been a turbulent transitional season in which mid-table should be fine, I have to say that there's a lot of quality in that squad. It's a tad bloated, short on good ball-playing midfield anchor men, the back-up to Vardy is questionable, some players are inexperienced and, yes, there are 7 or 8 guys who need to - and in most cases will - move on. But that's nothing out of the ordinary, and we're still way ahead of teams which are or have been round-and-about mid-table - Brighton, Burnley, Bournemouth, Wolves, to name a few - in terms of options.

Yeah those player did win the title and get qualified to champions league quarter final. But don't forget that those player are also experience  heading to relegation zone at least twice.

[LCFCSOULBOY]

If we are really fair and look beyond our blue coloured specs our squad is pretty mediocre. A couple of exceptions of course. But no one who can really change a game around like Mahrez could. He was frustrating but he did have that extra something. Currently we have huff and puff and little else. Don't think we really have any real intelligent players in our squad. No real quick thinking brain. We always seem to be reacting instead of being proactive on the pitch. Little things we do well but don't really have any finished article.

[Mr Mister]

There is a real need for intelligent footballers for our team. This would increase Puel chances of implementing his vision successfully. He must know by now the weaknesses of the team.

[Stinkenzo]

Wasilewski and Zieler were gone before Puel's time i'm sure

[Pete from the USA]

Agree. People complain that Puel's brand of football is conservative and boring, but maybe this is the best we can do. Today we saw again that we can play exciting football, but then we lose. Would you take boring and 8th or exciting and 17th?

[volpeazzurro]

5 hours ago, MPH said:

 

I do see what you are saying, but everyone was saying that about the Manchester United players when Mourinho was manager. They are not saying that now.

I don't remember anyone saying that the players weren't  good enough with the exception of the odd defender perhaps either connected or not connected to the club. There was however musings about why such talented players were not performing to a level expected of them. It's not even remotely comparable to our situation and attempts to try and make it fit wreaks of an agenda. Players appeared to have downed tools at both Chelsea and United. Yet, on both occasions once Mourhinio had gone, they suddenly reverted into the tupe of players that most people knew they could be like Hazard and Pogba, both a long way different to our quality of players. Our players have openly denied such similar allegations about any friction with the manager and today's performance, whatever the rights and wrongs of it were, did not remotely suggest that they weren't trying for the manager or anyone else including themselves. 

[jamesmilner]

The backbone of the squad has seen off quite a few managers . In some way i agree . 

[MPH]

33 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I don't remember anyone saying that the players weren't  good enough with the exception of the odd defender perhaps either connected or not connected to the club. There was however musings about why such talented players were not performing to a level expected of them. It's not even remotely comparable to our situation and attempts to try and make it fit wreaks of an agenda. Players appeared to have downed tools at both Chelsea and United. Yet, on both occasions once Mourhinio had gone, they suddenly reverted into the tupe of players that most people knew they could be like Hazard and Pogba, both a long way different to our quality of players. Our players have openly denied such similar allegations about any friction with the manager and today's performance, whatever the rights and wrongs of it were, did not remotely suggest that they weren't trying for the manager or anyone else including themselves. 

 oh believe me it was said a plenty

[Oxfordfox83]

43 minutes ago, Pete from the USA said:

Agree. People complain that Puel's brand of football is conservative and boring, but maybe this is the best we can do. Today we saw again that we can play exciting football, but then we lose. Would you take boring and 8th or exciting and 17th?

Depends which week you ask the question. Most Puel Outers say repeatedly that they’d happily drop 5/6 places for some more exciting football. Lose a 7 goal game though, and that’s unacceptable...

[volpeazzurro]

1 minute ago, MPH said:

 oh believe me it was said a plenty

I think it was more that their performances weren't good enough. If you take the slating that Pogba was getting for example (quite rightly too imo), everyone could see the Pogba before Mourhinio, the Pogba in the World Cup and now the Pogba since Mourhinio has gone. Add to them the plethora of high quality star players they have compared to ours and there really isn't any comparison was the point I was attempting to make.

[inckley fox]

3 minutes ago, Hanan96 said:

Yeah those player did win the title and get qualified to champions league quarter final. But don't forget that those player are also experience  heading to relegation zone at least twice.

One of those was for 24 hours and the other was as early as October. We finished those seasons in 12th and 9th so it's important not to look at an isolated moment as being indicative of a whole campaign.

 

In the case of the 12th place finish we were still wobbling with the post-title hangover and our relatively small squad was struggling to balance league and Champions League commitments. Ranieri had a nightmare but even with Shakespeare at the helm we ended up comfortably mid-table. In the case of last season we had an horrendous early run of fixtures which gave a false impression of our situation, not to mention a manager who wasn't really a manager. When these things ceased to be a problem we improved. 

 

It's also worth pointing out that since we last flirted with the drop zone we've added 9 players to our squad, 6 of which are internationals, at a cost of over 123m. We've also moved on 7 more for 84m (of which only 2 were current internationals). So there's a lot of new quality been drafted in since October 2017, despite the loss of Mahrez.

 

Yes, it's true that Schmeichel, Morgan, Simpson, Vardy and Albrighton - as well as experiencing immense success - have all seen us in the bottom three (especially if you go back to early 2015!), but equally Hazard, Fabregas, Matic, Willian and Costa have seen Chelsea just a point above the drop zone too. They still have pedigree. And most of the players at our mid-table rivals Everton, West Ham, Burnley, Brighton, Bournemouth have been in the bottom three since we last were. All of them, and Watford, Wolves and West Ham, have averaged lower league finishes over the past five years than we have.

 

So whether we compare ourselves to mid-table rivals in terms of average league finish, or wage bill, or internationals, or silverware, or how many internationally respected stars we possess, or even how recently we were in the relegation zone then, whatever the measurement, we're still up there. In comparison to our rivals we have some serious top flight quality to choose from and it's not so absurd that our fans should believe us capable of finishing above those sides. 

 

I don't think we should expect this, of course, and I don't think we should be thinking of firing Puel now but the argument that Puel is doing great because, well, we're a bit crap doesn't stack up.

[MPH]

5 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I think it was more that their performances weren't good enough. If you take the slating that Pogba was getting for example (quite rightly too imo), everyone could see the Pogba before Mourhinio, the Pogba in the World Cup and now the Pogba since Mourhinio has gone. Add to them the plethora of high quality star players they have compared to ours and there really isn't any comparison was the point I was attempting to make.

 

 

whilst i agree with you, what i am saying is that people were saying the players were not good enough  and that’s really my point... some people are saying the players are not good enough but maybe a switch of manager and formation and things like that COULD make a huge  difference...

[Pete from the USA]

10 minutes ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

Depends which week you ask the question. Most Puel Outers say repeatedly that they’d happily drop 5/6 places for some more exciting football. Lose a 7 goal game though, and that’s unacceptable...

Bang on. To all the Puel-outers, be careful what you wish for, you may get it.

[SixtiesFox]

We have a very talented young squad. It is the manager's job to get the best out of every player at his disposal. Poor man-management and too much chopping and changing of personnel have contributed to Puel's inability to get the best out of all but a few. We need a few additions (striker/creative midfielder) but our underachieving, particularly against less talented teams, is clearly down to Puel.