Harvey Barnes

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

4 minutes ago, hejammy said:

What he doesn't press as well as Barnes?

Barnes gets away with it because he's a better player than lookman but you're right hes crap defensively which is why he's been dropped a few times this season.

[An Sionnach]

Just now, coolhandfox said:

Barnes wasn't great but his the only pace we have in the side, please for the love of god sign a pacey RW.

Daka is one of the fastest players in the PL but we are not using him.

[coolhandfox]

13 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Let's just remind ourselves that prior to the Brentford game, he'd been on a great run of form for us that coincided with our upturn in results and performances. Go back through those games vs West Ham, Randers, Rennes, Burnley, Leeds and even at Arsenal he was head and shoulders the only decent attacking presence. But he's then nose dived since that hideous challenge on him at the end of the Rennes 2nd leg.

 

I don't know why Rodgers hasn't given him a breather, he spent most of the international break struggling with that ankle issue too. I'm concerned there is something in this Lookman deal about owing more money or having to sign him permanently if he starts 1 more game, otherwise there's no reason not to rest Barnes for a week or so and bring him on in games.

 

Or dare I say it, go back to the midfield diamond and let's see Iheanacho and Daka take it to some teams, we are becoming ever so predictable again now that defensively we look more secure. Its too tempting for Rodgers to try and instruct caution and control and not take risks because we simply have to. 

 

 

Very easy to double up and block up the left hand side when there is no treat from the right.

 

Do that against Salah at Liverpool and you leave mane wide open. Do it against Grealish against Man C and Mahrez has a field day. 

 

Love Albrighton but we need a creative pacey RW to help us open teams up. 

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

Very easy to double up and block up the left hand side when there is no treat from the right.

 

Do that against Salah at Liverpool and you leave mane wide open. Do it against Grealish against Man C and Mahrez has a field day. 

 

Love Albrighton but we need a creative pacey RW to help us open teams up. 

Definitely, with our CF struggles too it just feels like we have to be so efficient in our attacking when we create chances and its no surprise we don't really push with reckless abandon now that our defence looks more settled. We don't score enough goals when we defend well in my opinion, but it's early days in our return to form defensively so perhaps I'm being a bit inpatient.

[turlo]

8 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Barnes gets away with it because he's a better player than lookman but you're right hes crap defensively which is why he's been dropped a few times this season.

Probably why he's preferring Castagne at left back and JJ at right back, as Castagne is better defensively than JJ and will provide more protection on the left when Barnes doesn't track back. This also gives JJ more freedom to bomb forward on the right side, especially when Albrighton plays

Edited 8 April 2022 by turlo
typo

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

Barnes was the difference for me last night but for all the wrong reasons. On his day he is unplayable and if he was anywhere near his best I think we'd have snatched it. He had an unbelievable amount of chances to produce something but gave it away. 

 

 

This says far more about us as a team and Rodgers coaching than it does Barnes. 

 

Barnes should not be the difference between us unlocking a team or not. 

 

Barnes is a blunt instrument. On his day he's unplayable but he's a very direct and simple player, he reminds me a bit of Bale when he was first converting in to a winger (only, with all due respect, Barnes isn't quite as technically gifted.)

 

Like Bale, his main asset is how powerful, pacey and direct he is. He just wants to power straight past people and he's at his best when he's got room to maneuver in to. 

 

In our defence, PSV really decided to park the bus last night and take a draw back to their place once they realised they weren't going to score easy in the first half. They gave it a brief go for ten, twenty minutes and then shut up shop and sat in with a bank of four and a bank of five. 

 

From there it really isn't Barnes' game to be honest. We needed a bit more subtlety and invention to get through them, making Barnes and Albrighton probably the worst possible combination of wide players to have out there. 

[brookfox]

Still feel he’s better with a left footer behind him. It just gives the full back something else to think about as opposed to Castagne and Barnes who will both be inclined to cut inside.

 

Was an off night for him but I’d have kept him on as he’s still a goal threat even off form.

[Ric Flair]

Barnes was looking dangerous again with the Thomas, KDH and Barnes trio but all 3 games since Castagne has come back in and he's looked iffy again. Hopefully it's just a readjustment and that this injury has set him back a bit, we know he's a very streaky player.

 

Still love him, just hope Rodgers doesn't cause detriment to the team whilst we try and rediscover his momentum as we've very little margin for error now in the only thing we have left to play for. 

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Definitely, with our CF struggles too it just feels like we have to be so efficient in our attacking when we create chances and its no surprise we don't really push with reckless abandon now that our defence looks more settled. We don't score enough goals when we defend well in my opinion, but it's early days in our return to form defensively so perhaps I'm being a bit inpatient.

I definitely think there was a move to being more structural secure when we moved to the 4-3-3, which has caused us to be a little less creative. It doesn't suit YT. 

 

We have improved massively defensively but are creating less, and are finishing hasn't been as good. 

 

We look a different side with our first choice back 4 available. I no longer feel like we are going to concede from every corner or attack. But we are still easing the likes of Castange, Evans, Justin, Fofana and Ricardo back.

 

I thought Ricardo looked very good last night, and we missed his pace down the right when we went off. 

 

I thought PSV paid us a lot of respect last night; they surprised me by parking the bus, as I thought they would play a more open game. 

 

At this level, chances like Nacho's are golden and have to be taken. You don't create 5 or 6 opportunities like that in a European QF. 

 

Another night we win 2-0, and everyone is talking differently. 

 

I know our away form has been crap, but I expect it to improve with the players back between now and the end of the season.

 

I think next Thursday is 50-50.

 

I know people will try and deny it, but with our first choice side out, we would be in the fight for the top 6.

 

A couple of quality players in during the summer, keep people fit, and we will have a good season. 

[filthyfox]

7 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

 

I know people will try and deny it, but with our first choice side out, we would be in the fight for the top 6.

 

A couple of quality players in during the summer, keep people fit, and we will have a good season. 

I fully agree with this. Although European tours are fun, we just aren't built for them year in, year out..... yet

[Ric Flair]

32 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Here we go....

I know mate, get used to it. The goals won't come again until we start defending badly.

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

This says far more about us as a team and Rodgers coaching than it does Barnes. 

 

Barnes should not be the difference between us unlocking a team or not. 

 

Barnes is a blunt instrument. On his day he's unplayable but he's a very direct and simple player, he reminds me a bit of Bale when he was first converting in to a winger (only, with all due respect, Barnes isn't quite as technically gifted.)

 

Like Bale, his main asset is how powerful, pacey and direct he is. He just wants to power straight past people and he's at his best when he's got room to maneuver in to. 

 

In our defence, PSV really decided to park the bus last night and take a draw back to their place once they realised they weren't going to score easy in the first half. They gave it a brief go for ten, twenty minutes and then shut up shop and sat in with a bank of four and a bank of five. 

 

From there it really isn't Barnes' game to be honest. We needed a bit more subtlety and invention to get through them, making Barnes and Albrighton probably the worst possible combination of wide players to have out there. 

Barnes has improved as a player but I think he needs a lot of coaching. Technically he's capable of being a much more creative influence but he needs help getting there, given Rodgers' reputation as a manager that is great at coaching it's surprising we've not seen more players kick on.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Stadt said:

Barnes has improved as a player but I think he needs a lot of coaching. Technically he's capable of being a much more creative influence but he needs help getting there, given Rodgers' reputation as a manager that is great at coaching it's surprising we've not seen more players kick on.

Improved his technique at finishing massively. He's as dangerous off his left foot as he is his right. What hasn't improved is his dribbling skills, he's still either devastating or completely snuffed out. Very little in between, you can usually tell in the opening 5-10 mins what sort of game he'll have at running at teams, but even when he has a bad game in that regard you can never write him off from scoring or getting dangerous crosses in and that is why Brendan loves him and rightly so.

[jmono84]

39 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Barnes was good against Man U, alongside those 2. We look a lot more solid down that side with Castagne back. 

Barnes should have had an amazing game against Man U with the chances he had but like the PSV game he made it a probably below average game.

 

Hes a massive player for us but for me I think we need better wingers, especially Albrighton on the right. When you’re up against a team sitting deep you need more than players who’s main trick is to knock it past someone. Barnes does try a fair few give and goes but he fluffs when he gets the ball back, Albrighton can’t even do give and goes, he has a place in our squad but we need better starting a euro quarter final for us.

 

Barnes is unique because of how powerful he could be but he has no idea how to use his frame. He should be smashing fullbacks out of the way but it’s not his game. I still think there’s more to come from him, let’s hope we can get it out of him.

[Stadt]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Improved his technique at finishing massively. He's as dangerous off his left foot as he is his right. What hasn't improved is his dribbling skills, he's still either devastating or completely snuffed out. Very little in between, you can usually tell in the opening 5-10 mins what sort of game he'll have at running at teams, but even when he has a bad game in that regard you can never write him off from scoring or getting dangerous crosses in and that is why Brendan loves him and rightly so.

Managers (especially those without good playing careers) rarely improve the technical elements of players but instead the mental side. Rodgers should be developing Barnes' positional sense, movement and decision making. They're the things that let him down and the coaching staff can help with. Finnegan was right calling him a blunt instrument, he has the capability to do so much more yet doesn't really get there.

 

Most of Barnes' goals in 20/21 were from quite central positions, he was good at arriving quite late but we've hardly been able to get him in those position this year.

[Sunbury Fox]

Lots of excellent points made here. 433 has made us more solid but with Nacho at CF who likes to drop deep, RW options that lack pace (ie Albrighton and Maddison out of position, now that Lookman is out of favour) and the lack of a number 10 as Maddison has to be shunted out wide or play deeper as one of the central 3, we are left with Barnes as our only attacking threat with his pace and running power. Well organised teams will pick up on this and focus everything on ensuring Barnes has no space as PSV did last night. We are then left relying on the kind of worldies we scored against Brentford or the odd amazing 1 touch passing move like the one that led to Barnes' chance last night. It is not sustainable if we want to progress and be challenging the top 6.

 

We simply have to get a top quality right winger with trickery and strong running power to diversify our threat. I also think we need to get our best player this season (Maddison) in the position that will enable him to have most impact ie as an advanced playmaker close to the central striker. I love KDH but playing him further up the field than Maddison, which seemed to be the case last night, is not a recipe for greater creativity.

 

If over the summer we can make these kind of changes in personnel and formation then Barnes will have more space and opportunities as defences won't be able to focus only on him. And as a team we should be much more creative. 

 

All that said,  Barnes needs to diversify his own game. At the moment it is just run forward, cut inside and shoot.

Edited 8 April 2022 by Sunbury Fox

[Fox92]

Still don't rate him as high as others do.

 

I know I always mention his lack of decision making but how many times did he miscontrol it last night.

[filbertway]

Really disappointed that it feels like Harvey isn't kicking on. He's capable of providing the odd spark in a game and is clearly our best wide attacking option (his competition is top end championship mind). Feel like he should be getting to a stage where he's influencing every game and having a big say.

 

Doesn't mean he needs to be scoring and assisting, but he needs to be creating more dangerous situations and taking a game by the scruff of the neck. He looks very comfortable to me, he's capable of more and I hope someone can get through to him so he starts pushing himself to hit the levels he's capable of.

[sacreblueits442]

47 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Still don't rate him as high as others do.

 

I know I always mention his lack of decision making but how many times did he miscontrol it last night.

....very much a confidence player!!!

 Perhaps it is just not the balance of style with KDH and Thomas on the left, more people he is comfortable with.

  Barnes is quite easy to read on the pitch, you can see his indecisions a mile off, and you wonder why he carries these thoughts in his head.

[Fox92]

5 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....very much a confidence player!!!

 Perhaps it is just not the balance of style with KDH and Thomas on the left, more people he is comfortable with.

  Barnes is quite easy to read on the pitch, you can see his indecisions a mile off, and you wonder why he carries these thoughts in his head.

Yep, pretty much.

He might be more comfortable with Thomas behind him but his decision making is so poor. An example being when he come inside and blazed over from 10 yards when Castagne had made a great run inside him.

He seems to have the odd game where he's brilliant but not consistenty.

It's not even like I'm talking about a young player either; he's 25 this year.

[An Sionnach]

What we can' t have is a front three who are not prepared to track back and defend. Barnes rarely does and a right winger who does the same would not work at all. That is why I am no fan of this front three idea. When we won the PL , Okazaki and Albrighton quickly got behind the ball leaving just Vardy and Mahrez ( who couldn't defend to save his life) advanced. The back four and diamond midfield works much better defensively especially now Maddison is making a contribution. We have been conceding too many goals but recently and even before the return of Evans and Fofana we have been better.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Think it was obvious pretty early on their fullback totally had his number and he wasn't going to have an impact. He should have either switched the wingers or taken Harvey off, he had a bit of a stinker but that fullback just had his number from the off, it happens at this level so I'd be more inclined to think the manager has to take some of the blame with that as it was so obvious he needed switching positions or taken off but he just kept banging his head against a wall all night. 

[Sampson]

Castagne was excellent and as good as anyone last night though and we’ve looked more secure since he came in. Given Barnes’ season, I’m not sure you can justify dropping Castagne to facilitate Barnes right now.
 

Rather than trying to see if others (Lookman) play well with Castagne.

Edited 9 April 2022 by Sampson

[WigstonWanderer]

Seemed to be in 2 minds as to whether to go right or left of the defender and just ended up running into him.

[worthosoriginals]

Yeh, keep hating the boy eh?  that will teach him for not being perfect.