Harvey Barnes

[hejammy]

36 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

He’s a victim of Brendan’s walking football.

 

The lads qualities are;

 

Pace

Power

Direct running 

 

We simply don’t play football that brings the best out of him. 

Maybe you don't go the games, but from the stands you can see BR asking for them to play it quicker up the pitch, he even calls some of them over during the game to explain this to them (maybe not today but certainly other games) he's always said in interviews that he wants them to play forward and quick. 

[Harry the Cat]

40 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

He’s a victim of Brendan’s walking football.

 

The lads qualities are;

 

Pace

Power

Direct running 

 

We simply don’t play football that brings the best out of him. 

When he plays well, he exhibits those attributes. But I’m afraid we haven’t seen much pace, power and direct running this season. 

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Fox92 said:

Which is my worry really, it was just one season.

The way I look at it is that he progressed very well to get to that point last season where he was one of, if not pur most important attacking player and his finishing was strong.

 

2019/20 had been a season of hard graft and learning from him and it was evident to see his improvements come to fruition with his technique at scoring and especially off his left foot.

 

This year seems very poor from him and yet he's still had some valuable input, his spell from the West Ham cameo through to late March he'd looked so much more like himself but then it's been very hit and miss again.

 

I can see the fans frustration as goals and some assists aside we no longer see the direct running and unpredictability that make wingers so mercurial and exciting to watch. But look at Maddison, he has had some horrendous spells here where he can barely pick his nose let alone a creative pass or provide a goal and he's worked his way back to his best season yet.

 

I don't know if Harvey has lost a bit of focus off the field this season during a regime that's become stale but hopefully of Rodgers is still here that he invests as much time and energy in to rebuilding Barnes strengths as he has done with Maddison whom was at a real crossroads with him on and off the field antics. Failing that, another manager may well be the boost he needs.

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, hejammy said:

Maybe you don't go the games, but from the stands you can see BR asking for them to play it quicker up the pitch, he even calls some of them over during the game to explain this to them (maybe not today but certainly other games) he's always said in interviews that he wants them to play forward and quick. 

Does he now? That’s nice. 
 

And I do go to the games. So what you’re implying is that there’s one of the two issues;

 

1. Brendan’s training sessions clearly aren’t up to scratch, because the tactics aren’t getting through to the players or.

 

2. The players have all downed tools and aren’t playing for him.

 

Brendan can wave his arms around as much as he likes, he’s the manager, he implements a style and a philosophy, he sets the teams up and he is mainly responsible for how we play. 
 

And for large portions of his time here, we’ve been horrible. 

Edited 8 May 2022 by Pliskin

[hejammy]

7 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Does he now? That’s nice. 
 

And I do go to the games. So what you’re implying is that there’s one of the two issues;

 

1. Brendan’s training sessions clearly aren’t up to scratch, because the tactics aren’t getting through to the players or.

 

2. The players have all downed tools and aren’t playing for him.

 

Brendan can wave his arms around as much as he likes, he’s the manager, he implements a style and a philosophy, he sets the teams up and he is mainly responsible for how we play. 
 

And for large portions of his time here, we’ve been horrible. 

Well there is a third option (at least) - some of the players are already on their holidays and don't care, some have already set their sights on the next move and some who have lost their confidence in their ability. I'm not saying it's not BRs fault at all, I'm saying it's not just all of his fault. 

 

Also with regards to your last comment. Come on fella have a think, 2 x 5th place finishes, FA cup, charity sheild, semi finals of a European Cup. I'd hardly say that was horrible. Especially if you include all the injuries we've had. 

[Bob Hazels shorts]

We have never replaced Mahrez yet for much of the season to our detriment have set up to accommodate a poor Barnes

 

Quality and numbers in our squad screams out to play a 3 to allow Fofana to make the forward runs he likes and also physical support to prolong Evans career.

 

Our choice (when fit) of 4 FB’s being allowed to play as WB’s are far more effective than Barnes 

 

The way Rodgers has tinkered with the wings inc our loan RW replacing Barnes suggests this 

[sacreblueits442]

12 hours ago, hejammy said:

Maybe you don't go the games, but from the stands you can see BR asking for them to play it quicker up the pitch, he even calls some of them over during the game to explain this to them (maybe not today but certainly other games) he's always said in interviews that he wants them to play forward and quick. 

....Claudio was doing the same thing in his second season here!!!

 In interviews he was always stating that the reason we are not successful is because we fail to move the ball quickly. Puel said exactly the same as well, we struggled to impose ourselves on games as we failed to move the ball quickly enough, to take advantage of players out of position. 

  We now find ourselves talking about the same thing and you wonder why a team would fail to adhere to the wishes of the manager.

  Is it really that difficult to change the tempo of how you play, or are the players themselves so down and beaten with it all, resorting  to player disobedience!!

[Stadt]

In his whole PL career he has 0.52 G+A per 90.

Redmond 0.25

Gray 0.32

Grealish 0.37

Saka 0.40

Richarlison 0.40

Jota 0.56

Mane (Southampton) 0.57

 

When he has a manager that can really get the best out of him he could push for 15 league goals a season.

 

 

[StanSP]

Yeah anyone wanting him sold and binned off just doesn't really understand the benefit of having someone like him in the side.

 

Watched back the chances he had and apart from the header he should be getting on target, the other two were just pretty good saves from Pickford, especially the long-range effort.

 

With a more entertaining and liberal manager/style, we'll probably see more out of him like we did last season.

[Lewis's Junior]

I feel with Barnes he has Heskey-levels of doubt when not 100% confident. He can sharpen up in certain areas, but no doubt he has the attributes to be a 10-15 G/A a season player. 

[Stadt]

40 minutes ago, Lewis's Junior said:

I feel with Barnes he has Heskey-levels of doubt when not 100% confident. He can sharpen up in certain areas, but no doubt he has the attributes to be a 10-15 G/A a season player. 

He already is 

 

18 G+A in all comps this season from roughly 32 nineties 

 

17 from about 29 nineties last season 

[Lewis's Junior]

5 minutes ago, Stadt said:

He already is 

 

18 G+A in all comps this season from roughly 32 nineties 

 

17 from about 29 nineties last season 

All the more reason to persevere then! I hope the rumours he's gone this summer are false, we struggle enough as it is with spreading goals around the team. 

[yorkie1999]

He'd be a damn site better off if he were to be relinquished of his defensive duties. I think having wingers that need to track back all the time is the main reason we are struggling to move the ball quickly. I wish we'd just go to a flat back 4 with two central defenders instead of having overlapping wingers.

[SafewayFox]

It’s not as simple as putting all of Barnes’ regression this season on either Rodgers or Barnes’ return from injury.

 

More like a combination of the two if ask me.

 

Then if you throw in our current possession obsession style football which only hinders Barnes as he needs grass in front of him to drive into and a clearly low on confidence player and here we have the current version of Barnes.

 

I’m far from a Rodgers in guy but Barnes being hauled off at HT in quite important games on more than one occasion actually frustrates me more than it should as Barnes will be what 25 at his next birthday yet has shown zero evidence at taking accountability for his own development.

 

 

 

 

[Reg Vardy]

11 hours ago, Bob Hazels shorts said:

We have never replaced Mahrez yet for much of the season to our detriment have set up to accommodate a poor Barnes

 

Quality and numbers in our squad screams out to play a 3 to allow Fofana to make the forward runs he likes and also physical support to prolong Evans career.

 

Our choice (when fit) of 4 FB’s being allowed to play as WB’s are far more effective than Barnes 

 

The way Rodgers has tinkered with the wings inc our loan RW replacing Barnes suggests this 

Mahrez is virtually irreplaceable

[funkyrobot]

11 hours ago, Bob Hazels shorts said:

We have never replaced Mahrez yet for much of the season to our detriment have set up to accommodate a poor Barnes

 

Quality and numbers in our squad screams out to play a 3 to allow Fofana to make the forward runs he likes and also physical support to prolong Evans career.

 

Our choice (when fit) of 4 FB’s being allowed to play as WB’s are far more effective than Barnes 

 

The way Rodgers has tinkered with the wings inc our loan RW replacing Barnes suggests this 

I agree with the Barnes bit but none of our 4 FB’s have been outstanding this season and their ability to create opportunities can’t be relied upon. Ricardo has been a shadow of his former self, Justin not much better, Castagne has been just ok and Thomas has struggled at times and isn’t naturally an attacking FB anyway. Our best creative outlets statistically this season have been Maddison and Lookman (who’s not a RW btw) and as such they should be starting every game. 

[Reg Vardy]

1 hour ago, funkyrobot said:

I agree with the Barnes bit but none of our 4 FB’s have been outstanding this season and their ability to create opportunities can’t be relied upon. Ricardo has been a shadow of his former self, Justin not much better, Castagne has been just ok and Thomas has struggled at times and isn’t naturally an attacking FB anyway. Our best creative outlets statistically this season have been Maddison and Lookman (who’s not a RW btw) and as such they should be starting every game. 

Three of those full backs had serious long term injuries….hardly surprising not been at their best

[FLAN]

4 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

He'd be a damn site better off if he were to be relinquished of his defensive duties. I think having wingers that need to track back all the time is the main reason we are struggling to move the ball quickly. I wish we'd just go to a flat back 4 with two central defenders instead of having overlapping wingers.

He plays like he has been relinquished of them 

[blaaklint]

6 hours ago, Stadt said:

He already is 

 

18 G+A in all comps this season from roughly 32 nineties 

 

17 from about 29 nineties last season 

If anything, his underlying numbers are slightly better this year than last, although not as good as 19/20. Over the last three seasons, he's averaged 0.44 xG+xA per 90, suggesting like you say he already has that quality.

 

The biggest issue is, with the exception of last year, he can't finish to save his life. The fact his shot on target percentages are actually pretty decent (mid 40s) kinda implies to me that he'd rather put  a shot straight at the keeper/hit the general target and hope rather than attempt to put the ball in the corner.

 

The crazy thing to me is that he has such good output despite being an absurdly one-dimensional player. His ball-carrying at pace is excellent but his actual ability to beat a man is woeful. His passing is crap by just about every measure, as is his defensive output. He can't finish. But somehow he still produces and has that knack of being in the right place at the right time to get on the end of chances. It's bizarre.

[smudger63]

12 hours ago, StanSP said:

Yeah anyone wanting him sold and binned off just doesn't really understand the benefit of having someone like him in the side.

 

Watched back the chances he had and apart from the header he should be getting on target, the other two were just pretty good saves from Pickford, especially the long-range effort.

 

With a more entertaining and liberal manager/style, we'll probably see more out of him like we did last season.

He should have buried the one from about 10 yards to be fair, and also the header, although heading probably isn't his strong point. He is a frustrating player to watch, because he has the ability to run a full back ragged, as we have seen in the past, but even in his good games it tends to be a good 10 or 15 minute spell in a game, where he can be almost unplayable, and then he stops doing what he was doing and is almost anonymous, and starts playing safe.  

[Stadt]

7 hours ago, blaaklint said:

If anything, his underlying numbers are slightly better this year than last, although not as good as 19/20. Over the last three seasons, he's averaged 0.44 xG+xA per 90, suggesting like you say he already has that quality.

 

The biggest issue is, with the exception of last year, he can't finish to save his life. The fact his shot on target percentages are actually pretty decent (mid 40s) kinda implies to me that he'd rather put  a shot straight at the keeper/hit the general target and hope rather than attempt to put the ball in the corner.

 

The crazy thing to me is that he has such good output despite being an absurdly one-dimensional player. His ball-carrying at pace is excellent but his actual ability to beat a man is woeful. His passing is crap by just about every measure, as is his defensive output. He can't finish. But somehow he still produces and has that knack of being in the right place at the right time to get on the end of chances. It's bizarre.

He’s still raw, I don’t think the mental side of his game has developed much at all which is the biggest impact a manager can make. 
 

His positioning and decision making need bringing on and despite Rodgers’ rep as development orientated coach he hasn’t helped Barnes much besides playing him.

 

He has the technical ability to be more of a creative threat, he just needs the right guidance.

[magoo]

he just needs to add composure to his game to eratic at times poor touch etc, also he needs to learn to pass the ball alot more wastes so many good chances by being greedy, i still think a quality player is there some where i would definatley not sell him just needs the right guidance

[Sampson]

15 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

He'd be a damn site better off if he were to be relinquished of his defensive duties. I think having wingers that need to track back all the time is the main reason we are struggling to move the ball quickly. I wish we'd just go to a flat back 4 with two central defenders instead of having overlapping wingers.

What defensive duties?
 

Barnes never presses or tracks back like our other wingers/attacking midfielders do.

[An Sionnach]

Pushing 25 its time to acknowledge that Barnes is not going to change much. I consider him to be a striker in the Mané mould . However if you want to be a Mané , you need a quick brain to read the game. I am not sure Harvey has it.

[StanSP]

33 minutes ago, Sampson said:

What defensive duties?
 

Barnes never presses or tracks back like our other wingers/attacking midfielders do.

He does, just not consistently or with discipline.