Harvey Barnes

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

7 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

His finishing isn't great though.

I'd say that was the case two or three years ago, but actually now he's pretty deadly off both feet. Stats back this up too.

 

If we had someone on the right and we didn't just have a tactic to get the ball to Barnes I think we'd see a very different player and one that looked like one of the best wingers in the country a few years (lockdown pre injury). 

 

He's in bad form no doubt (and even in his bad form he's scoring plenty), but those that write him off as useless are miles off. One of our best players on his day.

Edited 25 January 2023 by Chocolate Teapot

[lcfc sheff]

Quite simply, if he was in the form most people seem to expect of him on this forum he’d be playing for Man City or Liverpool. 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

Just now, lcfc sheff said:

Quite simply, if he was in the form most people seem to expect of him on this forum he’d be playing for Man City or Liverpool. 

1000%. Do not get this attitude that we hammer him despite him being one of our most productive players. Our fans are so odd sometimes, we have far bigger issues in the team than Harvey.

[Fox92]

4 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

I'd say that was the case two or three years ago, but actually now he's pretty deadly off both feet. Stats back this up too.

 

If we had someone on the right and we didn't just have a tactic to get the ball to Barnes I think we'd see a very different player and one that looked like one of the best wingers in the country a few years (lockdown pre injury). 

 

He's in bad form no doubt (and even in his bad form he's scoring plenty), but those that write him off as useless are miles off. One of our best players on his day.

On his day yes. I'm not always convinced when he's played through on goal but maybe that's just me.

[lcfc sheff]

9 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

1000%. Do not get this attitude that we hammer him despite him being one of our most productive players. Our fans are so odd sometimes, we have far bigger issues in the team than Harvey.

Truth be told; and I don’t like to agree with Rodgers but he’s not wrong when he mentions we lack physicality and technical ability. We’re too nice whilst also seemed to have lost any sort of passing flow 

[An Sionnach]

39 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

His finishing isn't great though.

He gets more goal chances than anybody else and I agree his conversion rate is not good enough.If he can turn his ten a season into fifteen then he will be the real deal.

[AKCJ]

Barnes has 7 goals in his 18 games so far in the league this season. We have 18 games left this season so if he's able to repeat that 7 goals and get 14 for the season then that will put him right in the top bracket for goals scored by wingers in the league.

 

The only wingers that scored more than 14 in the league last season were Salah (23), Son (23), Jota (15) and Mane (16) and even then i'd say those players occupy central areas a lot more than Barnes does.

 

 

[Pliskin]

Harvey isn’t an issue at all. Our style of play is…..

 

Barnes’ strengths are pace, power and direct running. We don’t play a style of football that gets the best out of him. He needs momentum behind his play to be an impact, and when it happens he is more often than not unstoppable. It really pains me to see him stifled the way he is. He is class player, but the football we play is ****ing rancid, so he stands little to no chance at all…. Couple that with a bellend of a manager who thinks his team are shit probably doesn’t inspire much confidence in the lad. 

[Fox92]

57 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

Quite simply, if he was in the form most people seem to expect of him on this forum he’d be playing for Man City or Liverpool. 

Most people do talk players up on this forum, when in form, because they are our players. But I'll be amazed if he ever plays at a big club like one of them. I know we lost Mahrez to Manchester City but he could do so much more and had better ability.

[RowlattsFox]

The reason people have a go at Barnes more than he perhaps deserves is because his low level is really really low and this makes him an easy target when things go wrong. 

 

He has goals and assists in his locker and that's a brilliant trait to have.

Edited 25 January 2023 by RowlattsFox

[Dames]

2 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

He can't dribble and doesn't defend and yet people insist he is a winger. What he does is score goals , he is a striker.

Its a good point but he's not intelligent enough to be a striker and that's ultimately where he lets himself down. He has every physical and technical attribute to be top class but he just doesn't have the mentality or intelligence to make that step up.

 

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

His finishing isn't great though.

I think this is down to his mentality though, technically he's bang on but he can be lazy. The first chance he fluffed against Forest he just casually and lazily swung his foot towards the ball rather than trying to finish with any purpose. He's his own worst enemy. 

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

On his day yes. I'm not always convinced when he's played through on goal but maybe that's just me.

 

He's never going to be Vardy but then he's not a 9. 

 

When he's confident and relaxed I think he's a fairly good finisher. Particularly coming in slightly off the left with enough of the far post to aim at. He's got that instep finish pretty well polished. 

 

Right now it looks like he's absolutely terrified of trying though which is another matter. 

 

He's definitely a confidence player. Remember when he first came in to the senior squad and he'd get a hundred chances and just smash them straight at the keeper in a rush? 

 

He's his own worst enemy. Will always be someone that needs a bit of a lift you suspect. 

[SafewayFox]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

He's never going to be Vardy but then he's not a 9. 

 

When he's confident and relaxed I think he's a fairly good finisher. Particularly coming in slightly off the left with enough of the far post to aim at. He's got that instep finish pretty well polished. 

 

Right now it looks like he's absolutely terrified of trying though which is another matter. 

 

He's definitely a confidence player. Remember when he first came in to the senior squad and he'd get a hundred chances and just smash them straight at the keeper in a rush? 

 

He's his own worst enemy. Will always be someone that needs a bit of a lift you suspect. 

Lucky for us that Brendan is on a personal crusade to be Mr Positive lately though 😜

[Stadt]

The largely uncoachable aspects - He's quick, strong, two-footed, he can finish and his technique is good (usually) are all there.

 

His decision making needs the most work, if he took fewer shots from suboptimal positions and varied his one vs one play he'd be immense. There's a lot of untapped potential there still for an experienced player.

[Stevosevic]

His returns are very in line with a mid table club - which is all we’re going to be for the foreseeable.

 

He will get 10 plus premier league goals this season.

 

If he was in the 15 plus category, as a winger, he wouldn’t be hanging around here long. 

Edited 25 January 2023 by Stevosevic

[Nicolo Barella]

If we ever sign a bloody left winger that can occupy the opponents more than Praet, Perez or Albrighton, we might see more from Barnes too. Its unfair to expect much when him and Maddison seem to be the only players that can do anything at the moment when attacking.

[jmono84]

1 hour ago, Nicolo Barella said:

If we ever sign a bloody left winger that can occupy the opponents more than Praet, Perez or Albrighton, we might see more from Barnes too. Its unfair to expect much when him and Maddison seem to be the only players that can do anything at the moment when attacking.

Nacho should be starting too. He always seems to create chances for him and others but doesn’t get a look in. Instead see persist with Daka and Vards who touch the ball around 10 times all game.

 

I remember Barnes saying he likes to play with Nacho because he can play it into him and he knows he can play off him.

[Finnegan]

18 hours ago, Stevosevic said:

His returns are very in line with a mid table club

 

I know I've rattled off this stat so many times by now but last season, Jarrod Bowen was the only player from outside the Big Six that got amongst any of Madders, Vardy, Barnes, Daka and Iheanacho for G+A/90.

 

Barnes has one of the best assist contributions for English players over the last few years and always manages goals even when he's off form. 

 

His returns are much better than mid table. 

 

Edited 26 January 2023 by Finnegan

[FLAN]

22 hours ago, lcfc sheff said:

Quite simply, if he was in the form most people seem to expect of him on this forum he’d be playing for Man City or Liverpool. 

And in his current form shouldn’t be starting games for anyone 

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, FLAN said:

And in his current form shouldn’t be starting games for anyone 

 

Well we don't really have options other than changing the shape. 

 

Souttar and Kristiansen make that potentially possible I suppose but Rodgers clearly doesn't want to have to rely on any of Soyuncu, Vestergaard or Thomas to play 352 to save his job. 

 

That and there's a reasonable argument for persisting with Barnes in the hope of playing him in to form. I definitely think dropping him immediately after scoring in a game in which he started badly but then got a lift would be particularly poor management. But then Rodgers has previous there, eh Kel lad. 

 

It would help if the same Goons that used to get on Iheanacho and then Maddison's back would have actually learned to get behind a player and help lift him up instead of constantly abusing and even booing them. 

 

Barnes and Daka in danger of starting to get the same treatment now. You'd think people would have learned from Iheanacho, alas. 

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Barnes and Daka in danger of starting to get the same treatment now. You'd think people would have learned from Iheanacho, alas. 

Replace Iheanacho with Vardy a while ago too 

[brookfox]

21 hours ago, Stadt said:

The largely uncoachable aspects - He's quick, strong, two-footed, he can finish and his technique is good (usually) are all there.

 

His decision making needs the most work, if he took fewer shots from suboptimal positions and varied his one vs one play he'd be immense. There's a lot of untapped potential there still for an experienced player.

Completely agree but think it's a bit more than decision making, it's as much some mental toughness. Too often his first attack vs the full back determines his game. It's almost like when he thinks the full back is better (stronger, quicker, can't get past him) he convinces himself it's not his day and he stops trying. When it goes well and he gets up a head of steam is when he's at his most dangerous. I recall Rogers saying once he needed to play with a bit more arrogance. That said I think a counterpart on the RW will help as teams often double up on him safe in the knowledge there's not much risk of a quick switch to the other side.

[FLAN]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Well we don't really have options other than changing the shape. 

 

Souttar and Kristiansen make that potentially possible I suppose but Rodgers clearly doesn't want to have to rely on any of Soyuncu, Vestergaard or Thomas to play 352 to save his job. 

 

That and there's a reasonable argument for persisting with Barnes in the hope of playing him in to form. I definitely think dropping him immediately after scoring in a game in which he started badly but then got a lift would be particularly poor management. But then Rodgers has previous there, eh Kel lad. 

 

It would help if the same Goons that used to get on Iheanacho and then Maddison's back would have actually learned to get behind a player and help lift him up instead of constantly abusing and even booing them. 

 

Barnes and Daka in danger of starting to get the same treatment now. You'd think people would have learned from Iheanacho, alas. 

Despite my frustrations I don’t go along with the booing. Barnes gets away with woeful performances week after week whilst others get 10 min cameos and are expected to change outcomes 

 

[Stadt]

57 minutes ago, brookfox said:

Completely agree but think it's a bit more than decision making, it's as much some mental toughness. Too often his first attack vs the full back determines his game. It's almost like when he thinks the full back is better (stronger, quicker, can't get past him) he convinces himself it's not his day and he stops trying. When it goes well and he gets up a head of steam is when he's at his most dangerous. I recall Rogers saying once he needed to play with a bit more arrogance. That said I think a counterpart on the RW will help as teams often double up on him safe in the knowledge there's not much risk of a quick switch to the other side.

Agreed, he can definitely sharpen up mentally.

 

Just before his injury in 20/21 he was incredibly confident, he was demanding the ball and orchestrating play in a way we've never seen since. Ever since he's returned he's been playing in an underperforming side pretty much.

[Merging Cultures]

Look at our passing maps, we have nothing to the right or middle. Opposition can just close out Barnes. 

 

We need a RW and Madders in the middle. A RW will mean the opposition can't just focus on the left, giving Barnes much more space. Also, Madders in the middle behind the CF will give Barnes an outlet. At the moment he gets the ball, moves us up forward and has no one to distribute the ball to. So he just stops and loses the ball. His decision making isn't great at the best of times, but with no outlet for him it's even worse.

 

Let's stretch the pitch more, give him space and someone to pass to, and his form will improve.