Aerial ability?

[Sly]

How high can they jump? 

[adejo92]

1 hour ago, RumbleFox said:

Just to edit my own post.....

 

Just done a bit more research and in the Primmer League since 2000, a corner has resulted in a goal 3.1% of the time.  In this same period, 40% of corners have not cleared the first man.  Statistically they are the least likely set piece to lead to a goal.  As I said, none of this means that we should not attempt to be good at them but I think there is a genuine misconception amongst fans as to how likely a team is to score from a corner (or even beat the first man).  Only 7% of all corners since 2000 have ended up with a shot on target.

 

That 3.1% is also an "indirect goal attempt" from a corner.  In terms of goals scored on the first touch directly from a corner the figure is the one I quoted in my first post, about 1%.  In most seasons in the PL only about 5 corners have been scored by the team with the most corner goals.  The average seems to be 3 or 4.

 

It is also interesting to note that since 2000 the "short corner" has lead to more goals, more shots and more shots on target than the traditional long corner even though a lot of fans seem to groan at the short corner.

 

(Thank you TIFO Football for the stats).

 

Whilst I appreciate that, my guess would be that them stats are based on  goals which come directly from a corner such as VVD'S for Liverpool on Friday night.

 

Admittedly, direct headers and volleys scored from corners are not common place but it is certainly not uncommon to see goals that are scored as a result of goal mouth scrambles, or headers across goal to a team mate or even headers where attack is sustained by another cross into the box. Those are the goals that are only scored when attacks are kept alive through aerial ability - Not just direct headers.

 

The flip side is, having no aerial ability, and instead of attacks being kept alive - The goalkeeper calmly catches it every time or the defender clears it resulting in a counter attack.

 

I believe that is what @An Sionnach was referring to as well. Your stats are specific to goals directly from corners.

 

What about the ones where X challenges the goalkeeper and it results in a goal mouth scramble and goal.

Or when X challenges for a header, preventing the defender from clearing it cleanly and then the attack is sustained either by a shot from outside the box or a secondary cross..

 

Those type of goals are common place in the Premier League however our corners always seem to result in the GK catching or the defender easily heading it to safety.

 

I don't mean my post in an argumentative way, just as another food for thought. Your point is probably more valid than mine with it being stats based - mine is just my opinion to which some may or may not agree with.

 

Edited 11 August 2019 by adejo92

[RumbleFox]

2 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

 

Whilst I appreciate that, my guess would be that them stats are based on  goals which come directly from a corner such as VVD'S for Liverpool on Friday night.

 

Admittedly, direct headers and volleys scored from corners are not common place but it is certainly not uncommon to see goals that are scored as a result of goal mouth scrambles, or headers across goal to a team mate or even headers where attack is sustained by another cross into the box. Those are the goals that are only scored when attacks are kept alive through aerial ability - Not just direct headers.

 

The flip side is, having no aerial ability, and instead of attacks being kept alive - The goalkeeper calmly catches it every time or the defender clears it resulting in a counter attack.

 

I believe that is what @An Sionnach was referring to as well. Your stats are specific to goals directly from corners.

 

What about the ones where X challenges the goalkeeper and it results in a goal mouth scramble and goal.

Or when X challenges for a header, preventing the defender from clearing it cleanly and then the attack is sustained either by a shot from outside the box or a secondary cross..

 

Those type of goals are common place in the Premier League however our corners always seem to result in the GK catching or the defender easily heading it to safety.

 

I don't mean my post in an argumentative way, just as another food for thought. Your point is probably more valid than mine with it being stats based - mine is just my opinion to which some may or may not agree with.

 

I think you misread my post. 3% of corners lead to goals. That includes indirectly. X 

[adejo92]

1 minute ago, RumbleFox said:

I think you misread my post. 3% of corners lead to goals. That includes indirectly. X 

Indeed I did, my essay is a bit wasted now isn't it?

[kyleolly]

Youri was taking some corners in pre season and I feel these looked far more threatening than Maddison’s floaters into the box

[RumbleFox]

4 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

Indeed I did, my essay is a bit wasted now isn't it?

Ha ha I'm not being argumentative either and I like the fact you actually give reasoned, well thought out posts. I might be under playing the importance of height I just think people sometimes are guilty of confirmation bias and stats are sometimes useful to make us reconsider. I'm guilty of it too which is why I always try and step back and assess whether I'm going the wrong way. I too love a big cvnt in defence but I think it's less inportant than people think and I certainly think fans over estimate the thread posed by corners. X 

[foxinsox]

3 hours ago, adejo92 said:

We had 12 corners today against Wolves but it would have taken a miracle to have scored from any given one of them. (admittedly quality of delivery is routinely poor) 

 

Corner kicks are such a great avenue for bagging goals however I fear for our aerial ability in this squad in both attacking and defending corner kicks. I can't see any of our players, other than Big Wes if ever he plays, scoring from a corner other than perhaps a goal line scramble. I also think that we could be vulnerable when defending corners and I think corners in general could be an Achilles heel this season.

 

Our Ariel strength in both attack and defence likely comes from the 4 names below, albeit Praet likely not to be regularly starting.

 

Soyuncu - 185CM

Evans - 188CM

Ndidi - 183CM

Praet - 181CM

 

In both attack and defence against teams such as....

 

Arsenal

 

Luiz - 189CM

Aubameyang - 187CM

Xhaka - 185CM

Mustafi - 184CM

Kolasinac - 183CM

 

Burnley

 

Tarkowski - 185CM

Rodriguez - 185CM

Barnes - 186CM

 

Chelsea

 

Rudiger - 190CM

Alonso - 188CM

Christensen - 188CM

Loftus Cheek - 191CM

Giroud - 192CM

 

(Just the first 3 random teams I picked)

 

Whilst I know height stats alone don't prove or disprove aerial ability - the players mentioned are generally physically and aerially strong as well as their height.

 

I am that guy that manages to get Manchester City relegated on football manager so by no means believe I am a master tactician or competition for Rodgers job.

 

I just think that aerial ability could be a real issue this season - Does any one have similar thoughts or opposing thoughts that could fulfil my confidence?

 

Benkovic is 194 cm (6 4")

 

Ndidi does seem our best ariel threat at present, followed by Chilwell. Good headers are as much about leap and timing as height as Mark De Vris proved many times by mistiming them!

 

Our other obvious source of headers is Nacho or Slimani.

[LC/FC]

Now Slabhead has gone, the only player we have left with that aerial ability to head goals in and knock them out is Wes Morgan. So unless Evans is out for some reason or Benkovic isn't ready yet I don't know how we'll be able to play him, unless we go 3 at the back. 

[kyleolly]

He might be an absolute arse but I’m afraid to say we could do with slimani on the bench Vardy was having no joy at all today up against Boly et al think we could have done with him to mix things up abit later in the game

[Nicolo Barella]

3 hours ago, adejo92 said:

We had 12 corners today against Wolves but it would have taken a miracle to have scored from any given one of them. (admittedly quality of delivery is routinely poor) 

 

Corner kicks are such a great avenue for bagging goals however I fear for our aerial ability in this squad in both attacking and defending corner kicks. I can't see any of our players, other than Big Wes if ever he plays, scoring from a corner other than perhaps a goal line scramble. I also think that we could be vulnerable when defending corners and I think corners in general could be an Achilles heel this season.

 

Our Ariel strength in both attack and defence likely comes from the 4 names below, albeit Praet likely not to be regularly starting.

 

Soyuncu - 185CM

Evans - 188CM

Ndidi - 183CM

Praet - 181CM

 

In both attack and defence against teams such as....

 

Arsenal

 

Luiz - 189CM

Aubameyang - 187CM

Xhaka - 185CM

Mustafi - 184CM

Kolasinac - 183CM

 

Burnley

 

Tarkowski - 185CM

Rodriguez - 185CM

Barnes - 186CM

 

Chelsea

 

Rudiger - 190CM

Alonso - 188CM

Christensen - 188CM

Loftus Cheek - 191CM

Giroud - 192CM

 

(Just the first 3 random teams I picked)

 

Whilst I know height stats alone don't prove or disprove aerial ability - the players mentioned are generally physically and aerially strong as well as their height.

 

I am that guy that manages to get Manchester City relegated on football manager so by no means believe I am a master tactician or competition for Rodgers job.

 

I just think that aerial ability could be a real issue this season - Does any one have similar thoughts or opposing thoughts that could fulfil my confidence?

 

From roughly every 33 corners, a top flight football team is statistically likely to score from 1. Not too worried about scoring from them, more worried about conceding. 

[Nicolo Barella]

3 hours ago, RumbleFox said:

Just to edit my own post.....

 

Just done a bit more research and in the Primmer League since 2000, a corner has resulted in a goal 3.1% of the time.  In this same period, 40% of corners have not cleared the first man.  Statistically they are the least likely set piece to lead to a goal.  As I said, none of this means that we should not attempt to be good at them but I think there is a genuine misconception amongst fans as to how likely a team is to score from a corner (or even beat the first man).  Only 7% of all corners since 2000 have ended up with a shot on target.

 

That 3.1% is also an "indirect goal attempt" from a corner.  In terms of goals scored on the first touch directly from a corner the figure is the one I quoted in my first post, about 1%.  In most seasons in the PL only about 5 corners have been scored by the team with the most corner goals.  The average seems to be 3 or 4.

 

It is also interesting to note that since 2000 the "short corner" has lead to more goals, more shots and more shots on target than the traditional long corner even though a lot of fans seem to groan at the short corner.

 

(Thank you TIFO Football for the stats).

Thank you for posting this, I remembered this video but only vaguely 

[Dr The Singh]

We have no plan B Interms of varying our attack ie tall striker, so we are limited

[volpeazzurro]

3 hours ago, sdb said:

Definitely more worried about us defending them than I am excited about us attacking them. We do have a team lacking aerial prowess. Bar our centre halves it's only really Chillwell and Ndidi that ever win any.

It would help if we didn't have Dracula as goalkeeper. Surely by now our coaches should have addressed his apparent lack of ability to command his area, he rarely comes off his line and is merely a spectator. He excels in other areas yet remains weak in this one after all this time. Like you I find the lack of height potentially worrying.

[LC/FC]

2 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

We have no plan B Interms of varying our attack ie tall striker, so we are limited

I guess Kelechi is dead to you then. 

[volpeazzurro]

3 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said:

Ridiculous today, not one threatened and Wolves seemed quite comfortable in conceding them. We arent a big side and as such will have less ambition in this area but we need to think of other ways of affecting a corner situation in our favour as direct balls in every occasion will not bring any more reward.

Agreed. You'd have thought after about a dozen they may have worked that one out!

[Dr The Singh]

1 minute ago, LC/FC said:

I guess Kelechi is dead to you then. 

He is still good enough for post and pre match banter I suppose?

 

In terms of changing our or adding to our attacking dynamics, he is zero this far

[yorkie1999]

Maybe, we should be looking to be a bit more creative from corners instead of just trying to put it in the box where we've got something like a 30% chance of actually getting a head on it and then a 20% chance of actually scoring from it. Why aren't we putting someone at the back of the box in anticipation for the corner going long, which it did on 2 or 3 occasions yesterday. Why are we not looking to play it to Tielemens, whose got a cracking shot on him, who was standing well outside the box on his own a few times. All we seem to do his put a hopeful ball in and if they don't sort that out, it's going to be another 125 corners without a goal coming from them, as it was last time. 

[Mike Oxlong]

When we get a corner I think of it as the bit before the other side get a goal kick or a break

 

 

Edited 12 August 2019 by Mike Oxlong

[volpeazzurro]

15 hours ago, LC/FC said:

I guess Kelechi is dead to you then. 

He's been a dead weight for the last two years, the hope is that Dr Rodgers can give him the kiss of life and resuscitate him! 😄

[fuchsntf]

20 hours ago, adejo92 said:

We had 12 corners today against Wolves but it would have taken a miracle to have scored from any given one of them. (admittedly quality of delivery is routinely poor) 

 

Corner kicks are such a great avenue for bagging goals however I fear for our aerial ability in this squad in both attacking and defending corner kicks. I can't see any of our players, other than Big Wes if ever he plays, scoring from a corner other than perhaps a goal line scramble. I also think that we could be vulnerable when defending corners and I think corners in general could be an Achilles heel this season.

 

Our Ariel strength in both attack and defence likely comes from the 4 names below, albeit Praet likely not to be regularly starting.

 

Soyuncu - 185CM

Evans - 188CM

Ndidi - 183CM

Praet - 181CM

 

In both attack and defence against teams such as....

 

Arsenal

 

Luiz - 189CM

Aubameyang - 187CM

Xhaka - 185CM

Mustafi - 184CM

Kolasinac - 183CM

 

Burnley

 

Tarkowski - 185CM

Rodriguez - 185CM

Barnes - 186CM

 

Chelsea

 

Rudiger - 190CM

Alonso - 188CM

Christensen - 188CM

Loftus Cheek - 191CM

Giroud - 192CM

 

(Just the first 3 random teams I picked)

 

Whilst I know height stats alone don't prove or disprove aerial ability - the players mentioned are generally physically and aerially strong as well as their height.

 

I am that guy that manages to get Manchester City relegated on football manager so by no means believe I am a master tactician or competition for Rodgers job.

 

I just think that aerial ability could be a real issue this season - Does any one have similar thoughts or opposing thoughts that could fulfil my confidence?

 

No..!!!

.its the luck of the draw,in each und every game....Take Note ..We Dont dont see 7-0s everyweek,on headed/Corner goals.....

Maybe we will Score more this season.   Whats important for me,we didnt Concieve a penalty...we didnt make a Silly error,though our best

Player of Late nearly threw it away....The back 6 ,looked a better unit...und thats where one bases ,the Development of the team.

We have a better front 5, Plus Choudry & Ndidi,are playing more on the front foot.throw in an attacking based, subs bench. It will slowly come.

Don t go out  looking for problems at every turn.....Are other teams Guaranteed Scoring 12+ headed goals from corners,set pieces....!!!

Edited 12 August 2019 by fuchsntf

[mozartfox]

I would not worry to much as next year the EPL will introduce ‘Special Teams’ you can bring on for corners and set pieces.  Got to be the be next step after VAR?

[Finnegan]

It did look yesterday like we'd done absolutely zero planning of routines. 

 

You don't need to all be giant if you're going to be intelligent. 

 

I hate short corners normally because they're often abysmal but if you practice and practice and actually get good at them, why not work on some routines that involve getting the ball low and hard to Vardy, Barnes, Perez etc and terrifying slower defenders. 

 

Yesterday we lumped almost all of them high them high or to the middle against a team man for man maybe one of the tallest in the league? 

 

Wasn't very smart, however good the execution. 

[adejo92]

34 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

No..!!!

.its the luck of the draw,in each und every game....Take Note ..We Dont dont see 7-0s everyweek,on headed/Corner goals.....

Maybe we will Score more this season.   Whats important for me,we didnt Concieve a penalty...we didnt make a Silly error,though our best

Player of Late nearly threw it away....The back 6 ,looked a better unit...und thats where one bases ,the Development of the team.

We have a better front 5, Plus Choudry & Ndidi,are playing more on the front foot.throw in an attacking based, subs bench. It will slowly come.

Don t go out  looking for problems at every turn.....Are other teams Guaranteed Scoring 12+ headed goals from corners,set pieces....!!!

 

I like your confidence but personally I can see us conceding a lot of goals from corner / free kicks and scoring very few unless a worldie from JM. 

[fuchsntf]

17 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

 

I like your confidence but personally I can see us conceding a lot of goals from corner / free kicks and scoring very few unless a worldie from JM. 

Not a One game evengalist... A true supporter,...Not a whining nagger, I remain an  Eternal optimist.....and belief in Development of team!!!

[Blanchflower78]

Be very wary of set pieces at Old Trafford...