Ric Flair Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 There's an argument that Tielemans plays better in a midfield double pivot with a DCM like Ndidi but Ndidi plays better being left alone to marshall the area in front of the defence and not be in phases of play where he is on the ball for very long. It really shouldn't be that difficult to fine tune it but it does seem at times that Ndidi isn't involved in the area in front of the defence when the ball breaks and instead Tielemans is further back which is just ridiculous. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 1 minute ago, filbertway said: Despite his best efforts to give Salah a free shot on goal Hahahaa yes, isn't that 3 pen's he's given away in the last 2 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Hahahaa yes, isn't that 3 pen's he's given away in the last 2 months? Pretty impressive considering he's not played for us in a month. Edited 27 January 2022 by AKCJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 13 minutes ago, AKCJ said: Pretty impressive considering he's not played for us in a month. Wasn't there a very close call on one where it would have been 3 penalties given away in 3 games? A total brain fart in the last few mins of a game? Southampton I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonfox1884 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 23 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Wasn't there a very close call on one where it would have been 3 penalties given away in 3 games? A total brain fart in the last few mins of a game? Southampton I think? Yes, Southampton he would’ve given away a pen if there wasn’t an offside prior to his tackle from memory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claridge Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 Don't trust him at the back, mind you i'm not sure i trust any of our centre backs at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 2 hours ago, Ric Flair said: Hahahaa yes, isn't that 3 pen's he's given away in the last 2 months? His positioning and concentration are really abysmal (relative to what a premier league centre back should have of course). Didn't we concede a goal because Wilf jumped under a ball and completely missed it as well? It's the kind of stuff you see in under 8s football haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergray22 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 It wasn’t that long ago that ndidi was considered our most important player and the one we feared losing most. I think that view dissipated about the time tielemans began to get stronger and more influential in the defensive side of the game. The stop start of the covid period hasn’t helped. I don’t think he has been abysmal at CB in fact far from it. Wilf can appear ungainly due to his physique and ‘Spider-Man’ style of play. His style is unique the way he can stretch out those legs and tackle when you think they are out of reach. The thing I fear it’s that as he ages he will find the fluidity and physicality fades. He needs to compensate this with better understanding of the game and keep improving the technical aspects such as positioning decision making control and passing. Mentally he also seems to have improved in terms of consistency and bravery on the ball. He is still one of our most valuable players and one of the most likeable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 1 minute ago, Supergray22 said: It wasn’t that long ago that ndidi was considered our most important player and the one we feared losing most. I think that view dissipated about the time tielemans began to get stronger and more influential in the defensive side of the game. The stop start of the covid period hasn’t helped. I don’t think he has been abysmal at CB in fact far from it. Wilf can appear ungainly due to his physique and ‘Spider-Man’ style of play. His style is unique the way he can stretch out those legs and tackle when you think they are out of reach. The thing I fear it’s that as he ages he will find the fluidity and physicality fades. He needs to compensate this with better understanding of the game and keep improving the technical aspects such as positioning decision making control and passing. Mentally he also seems to have improved in terms of consistency and bravery on the ball. He is still one of our most valuable players and one of the most likeable. When he was in charge of screening the defence by himself he looked incredible. Maddison and Tielemans didn't have to worry about losing possession because Wilf or one of the defenders would snuff out the majority of counter attacks and then we'd be back in the other teams half putting together another move. We were very much like Man City or Liverpool when they just suffocate you and there's no way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergray22 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 I think that is intentional from Brendan though. Tielemans and Maddison being asked to do more defensively and out of possession being more compact in midfield. Fatigue may be a factor here too. Don’t think it is all at wilf’s door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergray22 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 I do think we could be prepared to stretch the game a bit more and transition more quickly into attack like we used to. Although we have shown signs in recent games of doing this. Small tactical changes like putting men on the posts can make a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacreblueits442 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 1 hour ago, filbertway said: His positioning and concentration are really abysmal (relative to what a premier league centre back should have of course). Didn't we concede a goal because Wilf jumped under a ball and completely missed it as well? It's the kind of stuff you see in under 8s football haha. ...his heading ability has always been less than it should be!!! If he doesn't have to jump to head the ball his timing does not come into it. It is when it comes to jumping and heading the ball, he struggles as he temps to jump early and the ball arrives when he is on his way down. It makes him look poor in both boxes and the backroom not fixing it is embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankMarvin Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 1 hour ago, Supergray22 said: It wasn’t that long ago that ndidi was considered our most important player and the one we feared losing most. I think that view dissipated about the time tielemans began to get stronger and more influential in the defensive side of the game. The stop start of the covid period hasn’t helped. I don’t think he has been abysmal at CB in fact far from it. Wilf can appear ungainly due to his physique and ‘Spider-Man’ style of play. His style is unique the way he can stretch out those legs and tackle when you think they are out of reach. The thing I fear it’s that as he ages he will find the fluidity and physicality fades. He needs to compensate this with better understanding of the game and keep improving the technical aspects such as positioning decision making control and passing. Mentally he also seems to have improved in terms of consistency and bravery on the ball. He is still one of our most valuable players and one of the most likeable. It probably coincided with our form for 2 seasons as a top 4/5 team. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Sionnach Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 Wilf is now a man with distractions, young family , college degree study. Maintaining focus is not easy. However he remains one of the P.L's leading defensive midfielders so when he snaps back into form it will help us no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacreblueits442 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Supergray22 said: It wasn’t that long ago that ndidi was considered our most important player and the one we feared losing most. I think that view dissipated about the time tielemans began to get stronger and more influential in the defensive side of the game. The stop start of the covid period hasn’t helped. I don’t think he has been abysmal at CB in fact far from it. Wilf can appear ungainly due to his physique and ‘Spider-Man’ style of play. His style is unique the way he can stretch out those legs and tackle when you think they are out of reach. The thing I fear it’s that as he ages he will find the fluidity and physicality fades. He needs to compensate this with better understanding of the game and keep improving the technical aspects such as positioning decision making control and passing. Mentally he also seems to have improved in terms of consistency and bravery on the ball. He is still one of our most valuable players and one of the most likeable. ...if Rodgers continues to change the way he plays, you are going to be consistently disappointed with what you see!!! He plays in a way that protects the back four by his ability to read the play, and be where he should be at any given time. If you will continue having him being part of the play supporting our attack then you are going to have those gaps where we are countered, and he is struggling to get back to close down the danger. Only someone, so far removed from sanity, would continually retain the notion, that converting Ndidi is in anyway a success, or a benefit to us, or the player. We all seem to be maligning his performances and now questions about is bravery and positioning. It is quite clear to see, play him without the added burden of the pivot, he works hard and does the work of two, by doing what he does (or at least did) so well. Edited 27 January 2022 by sacreblueits442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergray22 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said: ...if Rodgers continues to change the way he plays, you are going to be consistently disappointed with what you see!!! He plays in a way that protects the back four by his ability to read the play, and be where he should be at any given time. If you will continue having him being part of the play supporting our attack then you are going to have those gaps where we are countered, and he is struggling to get back to close down the danger. Only someone, so far removed from sanity, would continually retain the notion, that converting Ndidi is in anyway a success, or a benefit to us, or the player. We all seem to be maligning his performances and now questions about is bravery and positioning. It is quite clear to see, play him without the added burden of the pivot, he works hard and does the work of two, by doing what he does (or at least did) so well. You always have to play to strengths. Conte tried the same with Kante. Yes he improved going forward but lost more in terms of his strengths. Got to love Wilf though. Top bloke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 6 hours ago, Ric Flair said: Kept clean sheets vs Newcastle and Liverpool when he dropped in to CB though. That's fair. I am a bit undecided with Ndidi as CB though. I do think as a team we've generally looked more solid with him there this season, but he's obviously given away a few penalties and a bit bombscare there as an individual and I get nervous whenever he tries to tackle in the penalty area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruzFOX Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 2 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said: ...his heading ability has always been less than it should be!!! If he doesn't have to jump to head the ball his timing does not come into it. It is when it comes to jumping and heading the ball, he struggles as he temps to jump early and the ball arrives when he is on his way down. It makes him look poor in both boxes and the backroom not fixing it is embarrassing. This is a good point about heading and could easily apply to a lot of our defenders. getting physically push away or beaten for height is one thing but I’ve seen so many goals against us that could have been prevented if Cags or vesty or n’didi or timmy or most recently JJ had better positioning and sense of timing. Evans have a masterclass for Ireland against Italy not long ago. Can’t he coach everyone else? So far big Dan is our most reliable with clearing headers out of the box. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacreblueits442 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 6 minutes ago, Sampson said: That's fair. I am a bit undecided with Ndidi as CB though. I do think as a team we've generally looked more solid with him there this season, but he's obviously given away a few penalties and a bit bombscare there as an individual and I get nervous whenever he tries to tackle in the penalty area. ...just don't play him there then!!! Rather play Wilf in his strongest position than a U23 in the backline where a senior pro is talking to him throughout the game, than the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 13 minutes ago, Sampson said: That's fair. I am a bit undecided with Ndidi as CB though. I do think as a team we've generally looked more solid with him there this season, but he's obviously given away a few penalties and a bit bombscare there as an individual and I get nervous whenever he tries to tackle in the penalty area. I genuinely haven't got a clue what our best team is or who our best players are anymore. It's all chaos, we score a lot of goals more often than not but we concede a lot equally as often so it's very difficult to be confident what the solution needs to be. Just thankful there's a few players in midfield and attack who are in decent form and hopefully that continues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambert09 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 3 hours ago, filbertway said: When he was in charge of screening the defence by himself he looked incredible. Maddison and Tielemans didn't have to worry about losing possession because Wilf or one of the defenders would snuff out the majority of counter attacks and then we'd be back in the other teams half putting together another move. We were very much like Man City or Liverpool when they just suffocate you and there's no way out. This is why the diamond is important. What we did before worked but it did hold JM back because he was asked to play in an 8 role rather than the 10. But with Dewsbury hall we can move back to a solid diamond and bring in Nacho. This could be our way forward... but its a very hard call because we want to see barnes and lookman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sampson Posted 27 January 2022 Popular Post Share Posted 27 January 2022 1 hour ago, Ric Flair said: I genuinely haven't got a clue what our best team is or who our best players are anymore. It's all chaos, we score a lot of goals more often than not but we concede a lot equally as often so it's very difficult to be confident what the solution needs to be. Just thankful there's a few players in midfield and attack who are in decent form and hopefully that continues. I still genuinely think we're only a good defensive organiser or two away from being a top 6 side again. We score more than enough to challenge for the Champions League again but concede more than we even did that season we were cut adrift at the bottom in 2001/02. Another Robert Huth style signing could get us back on track again I reckon. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxile5 Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 47 minutes ago, Sampson said: I still genuinely think we're only a good defensive organiser or two away from being a top 6 side again. We score more than enough to challenge for the Champions League again but concede more than we even did that season we were cut adrift at the bottom in 2001/02. Another Robert Huth style signing could get us back on track again I reckon. We won't be signing anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad biker Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 1 hour ago, Sampson said: I still genuinely think we're only a good defensive organiser or two away from being a top 6 side again. We score more than enough to challenge for the Champions League again but concede more than we even did that season we were cut adrift at the bottom in 2001/02. Another Robert Huth style signing could get us back on track again I reckon. Someone like Jonny Evans would be perfect ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson Posted 27 January 2022 Share Posted 27 January 2022 1 hour ago, foxile5 said: We won't be signing anyone. Agreed. Just think we're not that far off being where we were the past 2 seasons though. The goals certainly haven't dried up. 56 minutes ago, mad biker said: Someone like Jonny Evans would be perfect ! Well, I would have thought the same but Evans looked pretty lacklustre when he did play and I'd be surprised if he played again this season. He reminds me of Huth and Morgan at the end now where they barely played through injury, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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