How Leicester inspired Shankly

[kushiro]

With the Liverpool game coming up, time for a bit of history.

 

Which team were known as the Ice Kings in 1963? Most people would say 'Leicester' but in fact Liverpool were given the same name around that time - because they went on a similarly incredible run during that long, bitter winter. But then, on March 2nd, the two sides came face to face. Going into the game at Anfield Leicester were on a run of seven straight wins, while Liverpool were unbeaten in twelve, winning nine of them. Something had to give. Leicester won 2-0, and the 'Ice Kings' crown was theirs.  But Leicester didn't just win, they mesmerized Liverpool and especially Bill Shankly with their progressive football. This was how the game was reported in the press:

 

'Gentlemen! The toast is Leicester City, the most complete side in the Football League today. The Leicester players were numbered apparently merely to fill in the blank spaces that might otherwise have been left on the backs of their jerseys and in the programmes, for with few exceptions the positions they occupied bore no relation to the numerical cue. There were times when one felt almost tempted to make a check on the number of players in Leicester's blue, for the illusion was there that the sides were not evenly matched'.

 

Shankly was so impressed by the performance that he started to model Liverpool's play on the same system. This development forms one of the key passages of David Peace's great book about Shankly, 'Red or Dead', in which he uses a prose style that mimics the rhythmic relentlessness that took Liverpool to so many titles in the following years. Here's the passage in full:

 

In the house, in their kitchen. In the night, and in the silence. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill stared at the bowls and the plates, the salt and pepper pots, the jars of honey and marmalade. Bill picked up the bowls and the plates., the salt and pepper pots, the jars of honey and marmalade. Bill moved the bowls and the plates, the salt and pepper pots, the jars of honey and marmalade to the edges of the cloth, to the sides of the table. Bill picked up the four forks and the four knives and the four spoons. Bill held the four forks and the four knives and the four spoons in is hand. Bill stared down at the tablecloth. Bill placed one spoon on the cloth. Banks. Bill placed two other spoons in front of the first spoon. Sjoberg, Norman. Bill placed three forks in front of the spoons. McLintock, King, Appleton. Bill placed the four knives in front of the three forks. Riley, Cross, Gibson, Stringfellow. Bill placed the last fork in front of the four knives. Keyworth. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill stared down at the three spoons, the four forks and the four knives. And the three spoons, the four forks and the four knives began to move. They began to turn. And the three spooons, the four forks and the four knives would not stop moving. They would not stop turning. The three spoons, the four forks and the four knives spinning and swirling before his eyes. Like cogs. Moving and turning, spinning and swirling before Bill’s eyes. Like gears. Moving and turning, spinning and swirling. Never pausing, never stopping. Only moving, only turning. Like cogs. Always spinning, always swirling. Like gears. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill felt nauseous. Bill felt sick. Bill dropped the last spoon on to the kitchen floor. Bill rubbed his eyes. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill stood up. Bill walked back out of the kitchen. Bill walked back into the other room. Bill walked back over to the other chair. Bill picked up his book from the arm of the chair. His book of names, his book of notes. Bill walked back out of the room. Bill walked back into the kitchen. Bill sat back down. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill stared back down at the three spoons, the four forks and the four knives. Bill took out his pen. His red pen. Bill opened his book. His book of names, his book of notes. And at the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill began to write. To write down names, to write down notes. To draw squares, to draw arrows. To make diagrams, to make plans.

 

A few weeks later the teams met again in the FA Cup semi-final at Hillsbrough and Leicester won that one too, though Liverpool dominated the match. At that point Leicester were chasing the double, but of course they ended up with nothing. Liverpool's domination of English football began the following season. It's still a matter of debate whether Liverpool fans first started singing You'll Never Walk Alone following that FA Cup semi-final, or later in 1963 when the song became a hit for Gerry and The Pacemakers. But when we hear that song tomorrow we might reflect on the fact that without that great Leicester side of Matt Gillies (ably assisted by coach Bert Johnson), history could have been very different.

[Guest]

Sounds like Old Bill had been on the old LSD.

[RoboFox]

The "Ice Kings" is such a badass nickname.

[Stadt]

But I’ve heard of the Leicester BOOT BOYS

[Guest Eamonn]

33 minutes ago, kushiro said:

With the Liverpool game coming up, time for a bit of history.

 

Which team were known as the Ice Kings in 1963? Most people would say 'Leicester' but in fact Liverpool were given the same name around that time - because they went on a similarly incredible run during that long, bitter winter. But then, on March 2nd, the two sides came face to face. Going into the game at Anfield Leicester were on a run of seven straight wins, while Liverpool were unbeaten in twelve, winning nine of them. Something had to give. Leicester won 2-0, and the 'Ice Kings' crown was theirs.  But Leicester didn't just win, they mesmerized Liverpool and especially Bill Shankly with their progressive football. This was how the game was reported in the press:

 

'Gentlemen! The toast is Leicester City, the most complete side in the Football League today. The Leicester players were numbered apparently merely to fill in the blank spaces that might otherwise have been left on the backs of their jerseys and in the programmes, for with few exceptions the positions they occupied bore no relation to the numerical cue. There were times when one felt almost tempted to make a check on the number of players in Leicester's blue, for the illusion was there that the sides were not evenly matched'.

 

Shankly was so impressed by the performance that he started to model Liverpool's play on the same system. This development forms one of the key passages of David Peace's great book about Shankly, 'Red or Dead', in which he uses a prose style that mimics the rhythmic relentlessness that took Liverpool to so many titles in the following years. Here's the passage in full:

 

In the house, in their kitchen. In the night, and in the silence. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill stared at the bowls and the plates, the salt and pepper pots, the jars of honey and marmalade. Bill picked up the bowls and the plates., the salt and pepper pots, the jars of honey and marmalade. Bill moved the bowls and the plates, the salt and pepper pots, the jars of honey and marmalade to the edges of the cloth, to the sides of the table. Bill picked up the four forks and the four knives and the four spoons. Bill held the four forks and the four knives and the four spoons in is hand. Bill stared down at the tablecloth. Bill placed one spoon on the cloth. Banks. Bill placed two other spoons in front of the first spoon. Sjoberg, Norman. Bill placed three forks in front of the spoons. McLintock, King, Appleton. Bill placed the four knives in front of the three forks. Riley, Cross, Gibson, Stringfellow. Bill placed the last fork in front of the four knives. Keyworth. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill stared down at the three spoons, the four forks and the four knives. And the three spoons, the four forks and the four knives began to move. They began to turn. And the three spooons, the four forks and the four knives would not stop moving. They would not stop turning. The three spoons, the four forks and the four knives spinning and swirling before his eyes. Like cogs. Moving and turning, spinning and swirling before Bill’s eyes. Like gears. Moving and turning, spinning and swirling. Never pausing, never stopping. Only moving, only turning. Like cogs. Always spinning, always swirling. Like gears. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill felt nauseous. Bill felt sick. Bill dropped the last spoon on to the kitchen floor. Bill rubbed his eyes. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill stood up. Bill walked back out of the kitchen. Bill walked back into the other room. Bill walked back over to the other chair. Bill picked up his book from the arm of the chair. His book of names, his book of notes. Bill walked back out of the room. Bill walked back into the kitchen. Bill sat back down. At the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill stared back down at the three spoons, the four forks and the four knives. Bill took out his pen. His red pen. Bill opened his book. His book of names, his book of notes. And at the table, in the chair. In the night and in the silence. Bill began to write. To write down names, to write down notes. To draw squares, to draw arrows. To make diagrams, to make plans.

 

A few weeks later the teams met again in the FA Cup semi-final at Hillsbrough and Leicester won that one too, though Liverpool dominated the match. At that point Leicester were chasing the double, but of course they ended up with nothing. Liverpool's domination of English football began the following season. It's still a matter of debate whether Liverpool fans first started singing You'll Never Walk Alone following that FA Cup semi-final, or later in 1963 when the song became a hit for Gerry and The Pacemakers. But when we hear that song tomorrow we might reflect on the fact that without that great Leicester side of Matt Gillies (ably assisted by coach Bert Johnson), history could have been very different.

Great post. Extracts from that book were serialised on the radio a few years ago and it sounded like a good read.

[Charl91]

48 minutes ago, FIF said:

Sounds like Old Bill had been on the old LSD.

 

Genuinely nearly spat out my coffee.  

[Stoopid]

Not overstating it to say that Leicester team of the early 60s - the famous 'Ice Kings' changed the way football was played in England.

Matt Gillies and (especially his coach Bert Johnson) introduced a fluidity to play that was new. 

Suddenly numbers on shirts and nominal positions meant nothing, and players like Cross, McLintock & Gibson took advantage, making new patterns in midfield & attack that opponents struggled to deal with. It was revolutionary and thrilling to watch. A kind of prototype total football. 

Bill Shankly (when he wasn't staring at cutlery. In the night. In the silence (!)) often cited Leicester as the inspiration for his all-conquering Liverpool side.

When the Leicester board, with their usual instinct for stupidity, sacked Johnson in 68, Gillies resigned in protest and the City began a predictable sharp decline.

Shipman and the Directors apart, it was a great time to be a Leicester fan.

As it is now...

Edited 4 October 2019 by Stoopid

[jonthefox]

9 hours ago, RoboFox said:

The "Ice Kings" is such a badass nickname.

 Iv'e always thought that , plus it would be a good idea for a tifo too. What ya say @Union FS

Edited 4 October 2019 by jonthefox
Thick

[davieG]

Great era, great players, great coaches, great football.

 

Hopefully we can emulate it and go further.

[SpacedX]

7 hours ago, Stoopid said:

Not overstating it to say that Leicester team of the early 60s - the famous 'Ice Kings' changed the way football was played in England.

Matt Gillies and (especially his coach Bert Johnson) introduced a fluidity to play that was new. 

Suddenly numbers on shirts and nominal positions meant nothing, and players like Cross, McLintock & Gibson took advantage, making new patterns in midfield & attack that opponents struggled to deal with. It was revolutionary and thrilling to watch. A kind of prototype total football. 

Bill Shankly (when he wasn't staring at cutlery. In the night. In the silence (!)) often cited Leicester as the inspiration for his all-conquering Liverpool side.

When the Leicester board, with their usual instinct for stupidity, sacked Johnson in 68, Gillies resigned in protest and the City began a predictable sharp decline.

Shipman and the Directors apart, it was a great time to be a Leicester fan.

As it is now...

I posted about this several weeks ago - can't recall which thread...something about comparing the O'Neill mf to that of our current team.  This 'whirl and switch' system was inspired by the Hungarian national side and though beautifully orchestrated by that classic City side - With Dave Gibson as the chief conductor - Manchester United were on it first. 

[MPH]

in fact the exact phrase Bill Shankly used was;

 

” i can take no credit for the tactics here at Liverpool. I owe it all to my great friend and Mentor Burt Johnson”.

 

 

and that was from Burt Johnson himself who told me that.

[HybridFox]

1 hour ago, jonthefox said:

 Iv'e always thought that , plus it would be a good idea for a tifo too. What ya say @Union FS

Would be fab idea for the Boxing day clash with Liverpool if we're still up there!

[Trav Le Bleu]

I thought this thread was going to be about how Bill Shankly had a time machine and travelled forwards to 2016.

[kushiro]

Action from this game has finally appeared.  Still don't know the identity of the person who has been uploading all these gems. Got a sneaking suspicion it's John Motson. Certainly someone with privileged access to BBC archives.

 

Liverpool v Leicester 1962-3 - YouTube

 

You might notice that there's almost no chanting from the Kop -  that really developed later in 1963 with Beatlemania. A week before this game, Please Please Me became the group's first number I. (Many sources say it only got to number 2, but in the NME chart, which at the time was the most influential, it was definitely number 1). 

Edited 24 May 2022 by kushiro

[Gamble92]

I'm so glad we've now got more stories than all these times we nearly did something great.

 

Obviously its great to hear but I felt actually a bit down after watching our 125th anniversary DVD with all the times we nearly won the league and Cup. The next one is well over due.

[gerblod]

I was a kid of eleven when City took on Spurs for the FA Cup in '61. Spurs were an incredibly talented team. I think they did the double that season. All I recall was Len Chalmers limping through that game. Spurs were soon eclipsed, being superseded by Liverpool - which became the pre-eminent English team for decades. 

As has been stated, City and Matt Gillies reached the high point of his ten-year management spell two seasons later.

Reading his biography on Wikipedia it appears there was wage dissatisfaction within the team. The Bert Johnson sacking took place while Gillies was off ill. McClintock was sold and became the driving force in the double-winning side of Arsenal in the '70-'71 season (?).

 

It's fascinating to read about Shankly's musings on Leicester. He became a veritable god at Anfield while, as has been hinted at here, Gillies was undermined by 'the board'. Was Len Shipman the chairman at that time?

In those days both managers and players were dominated by these people - who very often knew little about the game but bought their way into it with money made from business and tended to see clubs as analogous to businesses - with the concomitant profit/loss criteria as their ultimate yardstick.

It's interesting that Leicester was a very rich city in the sixties - third richest in Europe apparently. Had the Club decided to do all they could to keep players and managers happy who knows what might have developed. Still, we're doing okay now.

 

[Spudulike]

14 hours ago, kushiro said:

Action from this game has finally appeared.  Still don't know the identity of the person who has been uploading all these gems. Got a sneaking suspicion it's John Motson. Certainly someone with privileged access to BBC archives.

 

Liverpool v Leicester 1962-3 - YouTube

 

You might notice that there's almost no chanting from the Kop -  that really developed later in 1963 with Beatlemania. A week before this game, Please Please Me became the group's first number I. (Many sources say it only got to number 2, but in the NME chart, which at the time was the most influential, it was definitely number 1). 

Almost wanted to hear Kenneth utter the immortal line for those of you watching in black and white, Leicester are the team in the blue. I suppose everyone was watching in B&W back then, even those that didn't have telly's. 

 

Weird that it's easy to become paranoid when you become fixated on your club but even then, in that commentary, Wolstenholme sounded disappointed that Liverpool were losing. Some things never change. 

[okie fox]

In those days Graham Cross would line up next to the centre forward with 8 on his back at the kick off and immediately afterwards drop back to become a second centre back.  McLintock (4) would then move further forward.  This confused opposing teams who were used to man-to-man marking and rigid formations.

 

I went to the cup semifinal at Hillsborough.  I stood behind a goal on the terraces near some scary teddy boys from Liverpool as the crowd was not segregated in those days.  Stringfellow scored with a header after about 20 minutes, then it was backs to the wall.  All the second half action was near our goal (far from me).  I remember they had about 30 shots with St John having several.  Banks was superb and the defence also was immense with several last ditch clearances.  It was nerve wracking!

[fuchsntf]

On 04/10/2019 at 12:10, Guest Eamonn said:

Great post. Extracts from that book were serialised on the radio a few years ago and it sounded like a good read.

What's nice ,I was there and wore that Shankly compliment for years..

He even brought it up in the future radio interviews...Also some other managers

enjoyed a new style..

The Sketch newspapers likened the odd built up confusion around G.Cross & McLintock brought was with Tigers playing with Letters on their backs...

 

Also older fans dismiss easily, when yourhfull unflexable fans can't understand modern managers shiuffling their players positions..

Gillies & a few foreign managers changed the old ideas, that even today

some fans can't grasp..

 

[deep blue]

47 minutes ago, okie fox said:

In those days Graham Cross would line up next to the centre forward with 8 on his back at the kick off and immediately afterwards drop back to become a second centre back.  McLintock (4) would then move further forward.  This confused opposing teams who were used to man-to-man marking and rigid formations.

 

I went to the cup semifinal at Hillsborough.  I stood behind a goal on the terraces near some scary teddy boys from Liverpool as the crowd was not segregated in those days.  Stringfellow scored with a header after about 20 minutes, then it was backs to the wall.  All the second half action was near our goal (far from me).  I remember they had about 30 shots with St John having several.  Banks was superb and the defence also was immense with several last ditch clearances.  It was nerve wracking!

You must be roughly the same age as me as I have exactly the same memories.  The Cross- McLintock switch was copied by Shankley later using Tommy Smith.  In the year after that semi-final I happened to go up to Uni at Liverpool and my (probably blue-tinted) memory is of City always coming to Anfield and sneaking a 1-0 win.  Ah, happy days.

[yorkie1999]

Bet Klopp felt the same as in 2015

[Foxdiamond]

For years I would look back to that season and think if only. So close to league and Cup glory. Often wondered what the club would have become if the cup was won in 61 and 63 and even 69. Was always a sense of regret. The idea we would actually win both the league and cup within 5 years still seems unreal and satisfying 

[Foxdiamond]

59 years ago today since we lost 63 cup final to Man U. At age 6.75 I discovered Leicester City in particular and a love of football in general. Can look back at this game and think don't worry just a matter of time 

[drofmor55]

On 24/05/2022 at 10:28, gerblod said:

I was a kid of eleven when City took on Spurs for the FA Cup in '61. Spurs were an incredibly talented team. I think they did the double that season. All I recall was Len Chalmers limping through that game. Spurs were soon eclipsed, being superseded by Liverpool - which became the pre-eminent English team for decades. 

As has been stated, City and Matt Gillies reached the high point of his ten-year management spell two seasons later.

Reading his biography on Wikipedia it appears there was wage dissatisfaction within the team. The Bert Johnson sacking took place while Gillies was off ill. McClintock was sold and became the driving force in the double-winning side of Arsenal in the '70-'71 season (?).

 

It's fascinating to read about Shankly's musings on Leicester. He became a veritable god at Anfield while, as has been hinted at here, Gillies was undermined by 'the board'. Was Len Shipman the chairman at that time?

In those days both managers and players were dominated by these people - who very often knew little about the game but bought their way into it with money made from business and tended to see clubs as analogous to businesses - with the concomitant profit/loss criteria as their ultimate yardstick.

It's interesting that Leicester was a very rich city in the sixties - third richest in Europe apparently. Had the Club decided to do all they could to keep players and managers happy who knows what might have developed. Still, we're doing okay now.

 

Gordon Banks was treated poorly by the Leicester board. With Peter Shilton wanting first team football  they agreed to sell Banks to Stoke but refused to pay him money that he was due to him. Banks refused to leave and it was only when Stoke agreed to pay this money themselves that the transfer went ahead . 

[gerblod]

11 minutes ago, drofmor55 said:

Gordon Banks was treated poorly by the Leicester board. With Peter Shilton wanting first team football  they agreed to sell Banks to Stoke but refused to pay him money that he was due to him. Banks refused to leave and it was only when Stoke agreed to pay this money themselves that the transfer went ahead . 

I wasn't aware of that particular iniquity. Players were treated with tolerance bordering on contempt in the sixties. I suspect because the maximum wage cap had been removed early in that decade. Though I suspect favoured players did get money via an envelope.

18 hours ago, deep blue said:

You must be roughly the same age as me as I have exactly the same memories.  The Cross- McLintock switch was copied by Shankley later using Tommy Smith.  In the year after that semi-final I happened to go up to Uni at Liverpool and my (probably blue-tinted) memory is of City always coming to Anfield and sneaking a 1-0 win.  Ah, happy days.

You remember that as well. I listened to one game on the radio. City scored and then Banks was the only name to be heard (slight exaggeration) stopping this shot and that shot.

Around 1981 I went to Anfield with my sister-in-law to see City play them. I think it was a Christmas fixture. We stood in their Kop and came away winners at 1-2. I couldn't help but cheer the goals. I got some odd looks but no aggro. Perhaps they thought I was a stray lunatic.